how much T3 with levo

[Hollren]

I’m curious as to what’s a normal amount of levothyroxine to be taking whilst also taking T3? I’m currently on 150mcg of levo and I’m wanting to try T3 as well as my levo, to see if it helps with my hypo symptoms. I understand it depends on every individuals blood results, I’m just wondering what a round about amount is ?

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Hollren

It's just not possible to say. Everyone is different. First of all you need the full thyroid and vitamin panel, as suggested in reply to your previous post, to know if you need to optimise your nutrient levels in readiness to start T3 if your FT4/FT3 indictate this, and whether you need to reduce your current dose of Levo. Then there may possibly be many adjustments of doses of T3 and Levo to find what suits you best.

[Hollren in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks for your reply! I thought that may be answer, I’m just feeling really frustrated at the moment. I’m not able to afford the test as of yet but I’m going to get it done when I can. I just thought that maybe there was a guideline or ratio of the two to take.

[mrsm49]

Its an individual thing, i had a thyroidectomy so that puts me in a certain "group" . I started on 100 levo after my op then my dose was slowly increased eventually to 200 to try to help but all that happened was my t4 became over range and tsh suppressed but i was still a zombie. Then i changed hospitals and found a t3 friendly endo, my levo was reduced as t3 was slowly built up, then both were tweaked again until i found the right combo for me which seems to be 75 levo and 15t3 (10 t3 in morning around 6-7am, 5t3 at 1.30pm) Times of taking the meds are also important and vary person to person. This process was led my my endo with blood tests every 3 or 4 months and took couple of years in all. I think the length of time involved in being on t3 (I'm still be monitored about every 4 or 5 months) is one reason why its reluctantly prescribed. (Cost and lack of knowledge are probably the other reasons!) Good luck with yr journey xx

PS yes before i was started on t3 combo among loads other tests i was tested for b12, vit d3, folate and ferritin to make sure those were good levels first (not just in range but towards bottom)

[mrsm49 in reply to mrsm49]

Oh and another thing although my t4 is now below mid range and my t3 about 75% through range my tsh remains stubbornly suppressed at 0.03 If i drop my t3 down the t3 goes below range but tsh doesn't budge, tbh its been suppressed since my TT who knows why. All my endos/gps hate this and my endo has put on my notes that she has explained the risks of osteoporosis/heart probs to me and I've said I'm prepared to accept them. She is now doing 2 yearly bone scans. My last scan showed osteopaenia which is a worry but it may be an age thing, im now 55 and menopausal. I don't think going back to a zombie living from bed to sofa is good for me either so I've made my choice. T3 does come with its challenges. Xx

[FancyPants54 in reply to mrsm49]

It's the falling levels of oestrogen and/or inadequate Vitamin D that are causing the bones to weaken. We all get it once we are menopausal. I have no idea why they single out T3 users. It's a silly idea. The best way to reverse the osteopenia and reduce risk of heart disease is to take transdermal (patch or gel) oestrogen replacement. With progesterone if you still have a womb. I love the web site menopausedoctor.co.uk for excellent, up to date, NICE guideline driven HRT advice and information. Here's a link to a fact sheet about osteoporosis:

menopausedoctor.co.uk/menop...

There's a video on the web site too and other references to it on other pages. Use the search bar. It's such an informative web site. and such kind doctors.

[Hollren in reply to mrsm49]

Hi, I thought it would be down to each individual. I’ve also had a thyroidectomy, I started off on 100mcg and I’ve been put on 150mcg as of January as my levels were way way out. I’m not due another test until September so I’ll have to wait and see until then how this has worked. However I do feel no one listens to the weight gain etc. Do you feel better taking the T3 now? How are symptoms? I’m hating how I’m feeling at the moment I just feel like it’s never going to get better!

[mrsm49 in reply to Hollren]

Yes t3 made the world of difference, i got my life back. I used to fall asleep all over the place, at my desk at work, in my dinner, while out walking I'd want to curl up on pavement all of a sudden. Dreadful times. I'm not 100% now and don't expect that will happen unless they work out some form of timed release t3.

Deff get yr vits n minerals tested and at good levels before trying t3 though x

[Steni]

Your question is just what I could have asked too and although they say everyone is different, it might be helpful to know how commonly various dosages are taken when combining T3 and Levo to get an idea of the ratio - I know that there is a formula which shows what the equivalents are for both but I have forgotten who posted it and what is was.

[Marz]

T3 is rarely a success if you have not made sure your vitamins and minerals are good - very good. Many of us have been on this Forum for years and we see this problem regularly.

I would prioritise your testing as suggested in your previous posts. Are you able to access your earlier posts ? B12 - Folate - Ferritin - VitD when optimal can help to utilise thyroid hormones you are taking.

Have you already bought T3 ?

[Hollren in reply to Marz]

Hi, the only blood test results I currently have are ones from my previous post. I can’t really afford £100 for the online blood tests at the moment with what’s going on with wages at the minute. I haven’t already purchased T3, I have purchased some selenium and some vitamin D3 and I have started taking both yesterday!

[jgelliss in reply to Marz]

Ditto !!!! Dosing with T3/NDT has it's challenges. But once it gets nailed and all the vitamins are in place it works very well.

[Hashihouseman]

T3 is normally 5- 10% of T4 when produced by the thyroid gland So it’s not a bad idea to emulate that.

Assuming your ft4 levels are already over 16 or thereabouts you could try reducing levothyroxine by 25 mcg and start with 5 mcg liothyronine (or whatever your source of t3). So you would be taking 125mcg t4, which in effect is about 20-30% less as not all the levothyroxine is absorbed into your various bodily compartments. Whereas 5 mcg of T3 is almost entirely absorbed in a few hours and fully metabolised every 24 hours so after a few days you will feel the effects of that whereas the reduced t4 may take 3-4 weeks to fully register its reduction both on free t4 and Free t3. Reducing t4 and adding t3 affects the balance of both in the body so it’s important to wait and see how the t4 levels pan out. After that you may feel you need more t3. If you do and you start to feel a bit of a head rush or jittery either the individual t3 dose is too much and needs splitting, maybe into 3 or the total combined dose is too much or you need more t4 and less t3!

Hope that helps! 🙄🤔

Splitting the total levothyroxine and liothyronine dose into 2 sometimes helps both conversion of t4 and avoiding spikes of t3. I split on retiring and waking.

Monitor blood levels and symptoms, a symptom diary linked to doses and blood tests is the best way forward.

[Hollren in reply to Hashihouseman]

This is so helpful thank you so much! I have been wondering what a normal amount was, the gp and consultant doesn’t seem to listen to me. I just wanted to try for myself and see how I went. I’ve been keeping a diary of how I’ve been feeling, I feel rubbish atm even on more thyroxine than I was. I just want to try something and hope it helps me, this is such a big help thanks so much!

[Steni in reply to Hashihouseman]

So much useful information - can I ask - when you say you split your doses do you mix the T4 and 3 ( half of each total dose ) for each dose or take each separately ie the T3 in the morning and the T4 at night for example?

[Hashihouseman in reply to Steni]

Ideally I split all the doses equally and take them together (t4 and t3) keeping them as equidistant from each other as possible. This isn’t always practical so it ends up being last thing at night, just before sleeping, then on waking, then sometime between midday and 4pm depending on how I’m feeling.... So the time of afternoon dose (of both t4 and t3) shifts according to whether I feel symptoms like deep fatigue - take it sooner, or too wired with higher resting pulse - take it later. I find my resting pulse rate is a good indicator of whether I’m taking too little or too much thyroid replacement. Occasionally I moderate the size of the t3 dose at any time but try and keep the t4 constant unless blood tests show it needs changing. Some people seem to able to take one big dose of levothyroxine on waking and their body takes care of the rest..... I wish I could but it just doesn’t work for me.

[NWA6]

I take about 140mcg T4 and 20mcg T3 per day.

[Hollren in reply to NWA6]

Thank you, have you had a thyroidectomy if you don’t mind me asking? Or is that an amount you take for other health reasons. I have had a thyroidectomy and so just wondering if those ranges are for the same reason.

[NWA6 in reply to Hollren]

No thyroidectomy. 10/11yrs of Hashimotos which Levo never really resolved. Higher and higher doses, some months good some months bad. Always arguing with my GP.

Then I started T3. I didn’t slowly introduce, lowers my Levo slightly and spread of my T3 dose into 3 each day. I know that’s not recommend and I wouldn’t recommend it as such. I just tell my story, what worked for me and you make up your own mind. After a few months I increased to 20mcg if T3, that got rid of the lingering constipation and menstrual symptoms. Then after about 4/6mths I increased my Levo again back up to what it is and now I’d say that it’s not always necessary to lower Levo first. For me the two work together. My current dose is perfect for me, if I’d taken ratios as gospel I doubt I’d be this well. It’s the same as GP’s only prescribing certain amounts of Levo. They base it on numbers and not symtoms. Damn shame that they’re obsessed with numbers, keeping people unwell 😞

[Hollren in reply to NWA6]

That’s so good I’m glad to hear your feeling well, it’s so sad that we have to do this for ourselves because the GP doesn’t listen. My consultant found it ok that had put 2 1/2 stone on and feeling tired always, just said “we will check it out”. Nothing ever works I just feel rubbish, I’m going to try adding the T3 myself thanks so much.

[NWA6 in reply to Hollren]

I won’t be surprised if you need T3 but I’d probably increase Levo first. It’s easier to get hold off and yours FT4 yours looks low. When you’re FT4, Vits and minerals are optimal then you add T3. It’s one of the most sensible approaches

[dtate2016]

All good advice. I’m with you on the blood test and affordability and I’m right there where you are. I have Hashimoto’s and I’ve successfully treated it for 20+ years with desiccated porcine T3 T4 combinations. (Armour / NatureThroid). Suddenly it stopped working, and the wonderful Doctor who helped me find it, passed away.

Upon returning to mainstream medical I was put back on levothyroxine with dismal results, for the second time (in 20 years).

With help from people here and thrashing about I come to find a reliable and clean source of bovine T3. From my experience the blood tests don’t really help all that much. And there are those health practitioners out there that are from the school of thought that how you feel is the best gauge of T3 / T4 ratio. There are still others, and they are right here on HealthUnlocked, that take T3 only, that left the world of T4 altogether.

I have to take the blood test and I have to pay for them a couple of times a year (and here in the US they’re coming to be more and more sources of very inexpensive laboratory services) - I have to do this to get T4 - if I want to take T4.

So the idea of leaving T4 all together, (and yes I too have been one more specifically warned of the danger of heart disease in taking a T3 only route), becomes more and more tempting. My thyroid symptoms do not resolve without T3.