Thyroid UK
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Tom Brimeyer?

Hi

Has anyone on this forum given the Tom Brimeyer lifestyle changes a go? He takes a lot of his info from Ray Peat & Broda Barnes and also was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.

It seems strange that a lot of people have made negative remarks about his ethos but don't seem to have given it a try. I just wondered out of all of the thousands of people in Uk with Hashimotos/hypothyroidism whether there are any success stories after taking his advice?

Thanks

Joy

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If this man is suggesting that hypothyroidism can be cured merely by diet, without taking thyroid hormones, then he is a quack and his advice should be ignored. There is no doubt that diet adjustment is extremely valuable for optimizing health when the thyroid is lost, but it cannot substitute for lifelong therapy with T4, T3, combination, or NDT.

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Hi

This is what I mean by negativity. Surely you can only make these comments if you have tried this method without success!

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... or if you are an Independant Analyst working in the field of Thyroid Research. Click onto members names and read up on them before posting - it usually avoids embarrassing situations !

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So we should just take one view on this? I am not embarrassed -I thought that this forum was for researching what worked well for the individual & putting thoughts out there!

All i was doing was asking anyone if they had tried or had success with this regime- I didn't ask for a lecture in respecting an Independent Analyst!!

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No, what this forum is for is to positively help people with thyroid problems, using tried and tested approaches to maximise their health. It is not for promoting quack remedies however persuasive they may be - quite the opposite. Such people, who have a financial interest in selling themselves, bring inevitable confusion and disappointment to those who fall for it. Wentz and Peat I have little quarrel with except perhaps in small details. Whatever regime is suggested by anyone must start from sound principles of physiology and not from ideas off the top of ones head, with no properly tested claims..

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My oh my- what bullying tactics!!! I respect your views so please be civil and maybe a bit more open minded! I didn't come on to this forum to be bullied by somebody who likes posting numbers & statistics!

You have told me your views & I thank you for them & i will post my views on how I am doing after my 60 days on this regime as you have made my mind up to give it a try!

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I think you have the wrong end of the stick here. Diogenes is on your side and is certainly no bully. He and his colleagues are working really hard to prove to the medical profession that simply having in range numbers doesn't mean you're fine. Please don't treat him as the enemy, he's done so much to help thyroid patients!

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I am sorry but I am a little tired of negative attitudes to new approaches.

Even the medical profession (new recruits) have recently been asking why they are not taught about how to approach the patient with a view to lifestyle, diet etc!! If they are asking the question there has got to be a more holistic approach to the health of the thyroid!

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One be nothing but negative if someone is advocating something which patently does not, and cannot work. What members here have learned only too well: there is no uniform magic bullet, magic diet, magic treatment that will suit everyone. Anyone who promotes something that they say will succeed with everyone is not being honest. We are individuals, relating differently to control of thyroid, response to diet, etc etc. For everyone its a matter of trying things out to see if they work but without harming themselves. But NOT to push their successful outcome on to others in the certainty it will also succeed with them. Here there are examples of success given, so that others can try them out to see if it works or does not work for them.

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so is diogenes an endocrinologist or dr? Does he have medical training? Neither does Isabella wenz or tom berenger so really they are no different to each other in trying to find a way forward for thyroid conditions!!

I've had 25 years gaining knowledge of thyroid function. I invented the FT4 and FT3 tests now used worldwide. I am a biochemist/physiologist with over 100 papers to my name. I have in the last 8 years been coauthor to 30 or more papers in conjunction with fully medically qualified thyroidologists. CV over!

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Thats very good-well done- I expect you will be very open to any new thinking and approaches with these conditions then- Baffling people with science can be very intimidating, after all ,all I asked in my first question was had anybody had any success stories with giving these dietary life changes a go- only to be bombarded by science & many "up in arms" comments.

Just downloaded his 60 day protocol so will see how I go on.

Nice to have your expertise on this very helpful forum!

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I understand what you mean about diet and lifestyle finally being noticed by the medical profession. And it is of course absolutely the key to so many things, such as type 2 diabetes. and obesity caused by bad diet and lack of exercise etc. BUT diet and lifestyle cannot *make* the thyroid hormone that your thyroid gland isn't making. I don't blame you for giving it a try though, given that your GP won't prescribe replacement hormones.

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Think Joy can be the judge of that for herself!! I was also very disappointed at the response she got. I'm here to explore options and keeping off exogenous thyroid hormones is my objective. I've had considerable improvement from diet (AIP) and quitting gluten in particular. Please lets not allow the development of Dictators or Experts on here. We are our own experts. And if not put off I hope others will be sharing their successes. Or even just their enquiries and experiments.

Ms Experimentor

xxxxxx

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Who are the dictators here? I'm not aware of any. And why is your 'objective' to stay off thyroid hormones? It's not as if they're drugs. My diet and lifestyle is just fine, but only because my body can draw on the exogenous thyroid hormones that I take every day. Without them I have no quality of life, because my thyroid can't make the right amount of hormones to sustain me!

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Well its not you Stitch ... I just wanted Joy to know that I shared her experience of discomfort from the reply she got from an 'expert'. We are the only 'experts' of our conditions.

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Generally there is something in the background causing our problems. Meanwhile whilst taking hormones the thyroid continues to be attacked if the source is not found and treated. My understanding is that that's why people have to continue slowly and steadily increasing the amount of hormone that's taken artificially until the thyroid is completely destroyed. I don't want to go along that route.

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Unfortunately, reality may make you have to. Once autoimmune problems start, they cannot be stopped. There is no magic demand: stop doing it. The unpleasant reality is to make the best of it however.

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Well maybe you'll be more fortunate than many of us who were in this mess long before the internet was somewhere to look for answers. I was extremely ill indeed at diagnosis and taking thyroid hormones gave me back my life. At the time, I had no idea I even had a thyroid, let alone the fact that thyroid hormone is necessary for life itself.

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So sorry to hear. Thank goodness for the hormones for you then. Also please I'm not knocking them I agree they're life saving but I'm excited to keep experimenting and very glad to meet others who are doing so. I'd rather see them as temporary for myself ...that's all!! Best wishes xx

And levo is free and so will all your other prescriptions be if you are hypo, so that's got to be good.

Sadly, facts are facts even when you don't want them to be. It might be possible to halt Hashis if caught very early before much damage has been done to the thyroid. But since you don't get a diagnosis in the UK until you are way, way over range for TSH, it's unlikely to work. I've tried a ton of diets and so on, and nothing has helped the thyroid. Some others have worked for other things. No harm in giving it a go as long as you monitor your bloods and how you feel (and tell someone else as if you go into a coma or have severe myxoedema, you might not be able to explain what is wrong to A&E).

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I don't think its going to kill me!!!! To tell you the truth the diet I had in the last 12 months had been high in processed food(due to a lot of stress) so now I am off these foods I am already reaping the benefits and have already lost a stone in weight!! The tom berenger protocol diet is pretty healthy from what I can see & really just adds a few things & takes away a few things I am already eating.

thanks for advice

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Joy is exactly in that position now. She has raised antibodies...which are telling her that her body is fighting. But at the moment she still has a terrific TSH. Her job might best be then to right now find out her causative organism. Eg Candida or Herpes and get on to the case. So promoting and supporting the immune response (contrary to some protocols which activelly suppress the body's helping response).

hi, Actually I have had athletes foot and thrush problems over the years, so candida would make sense!

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What’s your quarrel with Wentz on?

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Just a few details as to exactly how things work? They don't detract from what she is saying however. It's just a bit of detailed science.

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Which details in particular? Curious to know, I’ve read both of her books and they make sense to me.

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In a practical sense, as being useful to the patient, I'm not arguing. The scientific detail behind how the thyroid works and its interaction with the body T4-T3 conversion is not correctly put as regards todays knowledge. But that is a detail which is not relevant to practical suggestions on optimal treatment.

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Would you mine answering the question instead of issuing these oblique and patronising platitudes.

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I'm getting rather impatient with this discourse. If you want a detailed answer then go to Frontiers in Thyroid Endocrinology, and read the several papers headed by Rudolf Hoermann and learn! Otherwise you're asking for a Ph.D thesis on this forum which I don't think is relevant or acceptable.

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Therapy? Life long dependence..... yes ...if the thyroid is allowed to be destroyed through neglecting to search for UNDERLYING issue(s) and each finding out what individually has brought the attack on. Hence the need to remain curious and in "seeking" mode!

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Wow - rock and hard place for many patients. On the one side, doctors blaming patients all the time. And now on the other side blame the patient for allowing themselves to have their thyroid destroyed and neglecting to search for UNDERLYING issues.

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Life long dependence? You make it sound like an addiction!

I'm going to pull out. I have no wish to upset you but its seems you're taking exception to my analysis (of what I seek for myself and for others who indentify themselves positively as seekers) . The Medical Profession really causes nothing but trouble (speaking as a trained nurse who has seen so many people messed up) and so often misses the point and lacks open-mindedness.

For example...per 'management' of hyperthyroidism complete removal of the thyroid, so its easier to dispense thyroxin accuately. Outrageous.

If I was your friend I would challenge you to try to find out what's causing the disturbance to your thyroid and I would encourage you not to stop looking rather than proposing to accept a life sentence of thyroxin. T4 may help temporarily...but sooner or later more is needed. Best to find what's at the bottom of the problem. Does that make sense? I hope you'll carry on looking.

All the best

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You've made this a reply to me, but I'm not sure it's meant for me as it doesn't seem to tie in to anything I've said.

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Thank you so much for the encouragement -like I said I have no other options other than diet & lifestyle but am willing to try & try & try .

Keep the positive vibes going x

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He uses so many con merchants' tricks, I find it impossible to place any trust in him.

For example, a widespread technique is to lay traps. In this case, create sites that people will find if they search for "Tom Brimeyer scam" or something like that. These traps then explain that they were sceptical but actually Tom is the most wonderful person on the planet and you should send him money as soon as you can.

DO NOT FOLLOW THIS LINK - other than to verify what I have written above:

leahsfitness.com/hypothyroi...

Lay enough of these and it gets progressively more difficult to search for genuine criticism or scepticism. It is, pure and simple, an aggressive marketing technique.

I cannot follow his Hashimoto's ideas for the simple reason that, to the best of my knowledge, I do not have Hashimoto's.

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I really appreciate your cautionary advice...the programme didn't work for me either... but I did try it and am very glad I did. I learnt a few more strategies. I continue to search and to build on my discoveries and progress. xx

All this link says is that there are pros & cons-The only way to see if it fits one person is possibly to try it -or avoid it! Surely when you are feeling crap anything is worth a try!

Call me a coward, but I don't fancy going into myxoedema coma whilst waiting to see if I can somehow get my thyroid function back working on it's own without taking any thyroid hormones. Maybe if you are just a little hypothyroid (not autoimmune), it could work, but that's a small minority of us.

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Sorry but if you read my posts I have stated that I am not on any medication as Gp said my tsh levels are normal. My ANTIBODIES are really high indicating hashimotos so I really have no choice apart from trying to help myself!!!

Carefully chosen cons - two only, and both very mild. After a much longer list of Pros.

Then the great big LINK to Brimeyer's site.

You might also notice that the site has locked itself down so that you cannot select bits of the page to quote, etc. Also classic techniques of dodgy operators.

I absolutely and completely disagree with you that anything is worth a try. At the same time, I very much understand why people FEEL that. And it is that very emotion that is being exploited.

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I will let you know how I get on on this 60 day protocol

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I don’t think anyone on this board had tried the method. I have not heard about the guy but I follow ray pest closely.

Have you posted in the ray peat forum to get some feedback.

I do believe diet can play a big part in helping the metabolism to upregulate. However I couldn’t see myself stopping thyroid hormones to find out how successful this process may turn out.

In the past I have experimented with lower thyroid meds but I do get a forceful return of unpleasant symptoms.

What about you joy? Have you tried anything? Any positive or negative results?

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Just been told by GP I probably have Hashimotos & she will monitor me once yearly with a view to medicating me when my TSH levels are high(they are within normal limits at moment but thyroid antibodies are really high). My cholesterol was really high -8.3 (she did a non fasting blood test) and she was more interested in this ,putting me on 80mg!!!! of atorvastatin(which I did not have any intention of taking). I did my own fasting cholesterol blood test a week later and it was 4.3!

I have almost every symptom of hypothyroidism & feel I have had this condition for years.(I had early menopause, suffered multiple miscarriages)

My real problems started a year ago after nursing my poor mum & losing her. Had a few stressful times last year and went from being fairly healthy to feeling crappy, as soon as mum died I came out in horrible cystic acne,(never had before in my life)I am 56!

The link between stress & low thyroid function is quoted in many articles.

In reading Ray Peats thoughts he feels that high cholesterol & thyroid are linked & there are some really interesting articles on his website. I just wanted to see if anyone had been brave enough(especially with all the negative comments) to try his regime & give me any feedback.

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4.3 was this your TSH ?

no sorry that was my cholesterol

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So you must feel the same way about Ray Peat & Isabella Wentz? Also Broda Barnes? Thanks for feedback but I will give him a go as my GP says she will leave me with Hashimotos with no treatment at all & just monitor me once every 12 months! So I really have nowhere to go apart from lifestyle & diet.

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Why won't your GP treat you, is it because your hormone levels are still within range?

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Sorry, just saw your comment above and see yes, your levels are within range.

If diet and lifestyle doesn't work for you, you might consider self medicating with thyroid hormone bought privately. Many on this forum have had to resort to this. Of course it shouldn't be this way, but life is too short to wait for some medics to understand how bad this condition can be.

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I really would prefer to try the diet & lifestyle first! Hence my original question regarding asking anyone for good feedback on the tom berenger programme. Thanks for advice anyway

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And good luck with your quest. Be aware though that thyroid disease is often insidious.

If you want a free programme (you can continue to take meds), join Roderick Lane's Facebook Thyroid Care Group. He is a UK naturopath with a special interest in thyroid. His protocol is free for group members.

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Fantastic. many thanks.

Have you been following him? Fancy outlining a few of his working principles?

He asks not to do so outside the group. But, as with most naturopaths, he is a big believer in Lugol's iodine and also in supporting the gut microbiome with kefir or similar and in the ketogenic diet. He replies to comments (free), but you can also book a consultation by Skype or in London. He also has the help of several other alternative practitioners, who specialize in diet and menopause. You can join the group and just lurk.

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Hi

I am not on any meds as dr will not prescribe anything as she says my tsh levels are normal. So between a rock & a hard place unfortunately!!!

Bonjour Objoy,

tom Brimeyer propose aussi de prendre de la thyroïd bovine déshydratée, je n'ai pas vu qu'il dise d'aller sans traitement. Je pense que l'on peut prendre ce qui nous semble bon et voir ensuite.

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For those, like me, who struggle with French, an online translator has produced this:

Pour ceux, comme moi, qui luttent avec le français, un traducteur en ligne a produit ceci:

Tom Brimeyer also suggests taking dehydrated bovine thyroid, I did not see him saying to go without treatment. I think we can take what looks good and see next.

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I think we can pick out the bits which appear the most promising, and see what happens next.

Sorry, didn't occur to me to translate this, just read it to myself! :)

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No apology needed - even if I half-understand, I tend to try a translator so as to avoid the worst pitfalls. :-)

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Hi there objoyful

I had a go with his techniques.

I also follow Izabella Wentz, Mark ...... (sorry can't remember his surname so embarrassed as he was lovely and I had a prescription from him too !! ... brain fog!! I'll come back to you), and various other. I'm pleased to hear that Ray Peat is still with us I'll also have a look there and STOP the thyroid Maddness was another that I've followed, as well as E35e energy...or something like that...just had a look for a handout I had printed from them but can't find. Someone else on here might know them...lets hope so!

So there were a few things that I found helpful per Tom Brimeyer...but the beef thyroid wasn't one of them. I have raised thyroid antibodies as my body is making a great job of trying to protect me and I need to work this out. I don't agree we have to use synthetic or other thyroid hormones and there are lots of people who reset themselves without T4 etc.

Getting off gluten brought my TSH down from 5.00 to 3.5. Yay!!!

I think I have a fungal overgrowth and that that is my root cause issue. I also love grated carrot salad anyway so was in accord with TM there. But objoyful the big barrier for me was his unconditional recommendation for dairy. I tried again with dairy and I did feel more energy but I can't tolerate it in the long term and became so constipated it was desperately painful. Once I've fixed myself I will try A2 dairy... see if I can tolerate that.

So some feedback on your query which I was excited to see since I too am very curious about what others think. xxxxxxxx

Hi

Yipee . Thanks for the feedback. I was thinking that nobody else was brave enough to admit giving other methods a go!!

I have come off gluten a few weeks ago & feel so much better. I am going to keep on with dairy and just see how I go.

I have just downloaded it & will get my head stuck into it in the next few days- I have nothing to lose as am on no treatment at all as my GP says she won't treat me until my TSH levels go from being normal. So I will be a prime candidate to bench mark if this does help.

Thanks again

joy

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Fantastic. Do you have raised auto-antibodies? Is that why you anticipate having thyroid disease? Or you've got symptoms??

Hi,

I originally had a standard thyroid blood test about 2 months ago as had been feeling terrible with lethargy, no energy, my throat ached, acne etc etc etc. My tsh came back as within normal range

tsh- 1.99

T4 total 97.6

Free T4 16

Free T3 4.38.

antithyroid peroxide - 92.5

antithyroid globulin 548.

I was told this is almost certainly hashimotos but my gp said I would not need any treatment until my tsh levels got out of range, so she will monitor me once a year. No other advice was offered apart from her trying to put me on 80mg statin for high cholesterol which she tested(non fasting). I did a cholesterol (fasting) test a week later and it was 4.3 so was normal. Luckily I didnt take the statin!

I have 70% of the symptoms of hypothyroidism but what am I to do if the GP will not listen to me as a patient. Hence trying to help myself with diet & lifestyle.

Thanks

Joy

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Hi again Joy

You doing great.... exploring, asserting yourself and taking no nonsense!!

Currently your TSH is great. Under 2.00 and therefore 'normal' at the moment. 1.03 is theorised as being the optimal reading for fertility.

Medical protocol is based on the fact that we don't know what to do!!! So its sit and wait. NOT a good idea.

Try the spit test. See if you have candida. I leave you to google it xxxxxx

Well done for resisting a statin. You could add in Co Q 10 to whatever vit and mineral protocol you come up with... that will help to reduce the cholesterol by supporting your citric acid cycle. The reading for cholesterol is high as you body is working. Its helping you TO FIGHT. The cell barriers are re-inforing themselves, I'd take at a guess, due to the attack you're under....

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Thanks. Reading about the link between cholesterol & thyroid is mind blowing & apparently in the 1940s & 50s was one of the main indicators for having hypothyroidism.

I was thinking about getting some co enzyme Q10-you must have read my mind!!

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Ha! Love it.

In synchronicity sister. Also there's a few others who have popped up to support you xxxxxx

Many of your responses on this thread appear to be directed at someone - but it is difficult to follow as you have not replied to existing responses but have used the Reply to objoyful01 at the end of the thread.

Apologies and thanks for your constructive intervention.

My reply perhaps? I was upset by an 'expert response' but I wanted to direct my comment and my support to the other new comer, Joy, who like me possibly felt attacked for seeking to explore.

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sorry do not understand what you are talking about

Yes, I've given the salted orange juice, coffee and butter a go.

No, they made no difference.

At all.

There is one person on this site who has posted about using his protocol and claims it's made a difference. But can't remember the name. Try using the search facility :)

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