rls/insomnia

[help3]

RLS/INSOMIA

question is insomnia related to RLS

i can handle my rls its insomnia that drives me crazy. and i take ropinole to take care insomnia. is it mixed with rls or another issue

[Madlegs1]

RLS tends to stop one sleeping because of the desire to move around, and so being unable to even get into the first phase of sleep.Short half-life sleeping pills ,such as Ambien are hypnotics that help get you to sleep and don't affect the next days activities.

But you need to get to grips with the underlying cause of your RLS - iron level, triggers etc.

All these are addressed constantly in these posts.

Good luck.

[Hidden in reply to Madlegs1]

I’ve bean trying fo find my triggers for 60 years so good luck on that one

[Madlegs1 in reply to Hidden]

Do you keep a diary. Accurately and forensically? Certainly time consuming and needs a serious amount of research.

[Hidden in reply to Madlegs1]

Yes I have for last 36 years

[Bluebboat]

I find that insomnia is definitely part of the problem, sometimes seemingly unrelated to the restless feeling in my legs. Apparently it is excess glutamate in the brain. As well as iron (see the many posts on this issue) I take 2000 mg taurine, 400 l-theanine and 400 magnesium every night. This seems to calm my brain and help me to sleep if my legs are not too bad.

[SueJohnson in reply to Bluebboat]

Are you still using red light therapy?

[Bluebboat in reply to SueJohnson]

Yes I still use my lamp when I can’t get back to sleep. Cold water on feet first then 10 mins red light on my legs usually does the trick.

[Eryl]

Yes they are related by often being caused by the same thing i.e. high blood sugar which raises insulin which drives the cells to consume the blood sugar to stop it getting too high. This means that when you're trying to sleep the only cells working are in your vital organs including your brain and the insulin causes it to be overactive. This insulin in your blood also causes chronic inflammation of the nerves which causes them to be over sensitive and cause the RLS.

[grassgree]

Low blood sugar also causes insomnia;mentalhelp.net/blogs/hypogl....

This is why fasting to alleviate RLS doesn't work for everybody. A variety of hormones are involved in sleep regulation and there is no easy answer.

But I would caution you that ropinirole can cause rebound insomnia. Be wary of this, especially if you find yourself getting to sleep initially but becoming alert during the wee hours and unable to get back to sleep.

[Eryl in reply to grassgree]

Nocturnal hypogycaemia is most commonly a problem for those with type1 diabetes where the natural blood sugar from the diet is not matched acurately by the artificial insulin.

[grassgree in reply to Eryl]

The sleep neurologist I was seeing told me that it can happen to anyone.

[Eryl in reply to grassgree]

It can, but is very rare and as the brain can run on ketones as well as glucose its highly unlikely as ketones are produced from fatty acids of which the body is largely composed.

[grassgree in reply to Eryl]

Here's an excerpt from the link above;"Nocturnal hypoglycemia has been found to be a common cause of insomnia. When there is a drop in the blood glucose level, it causes the release of hormones that regulate glucose levels. These compounds stimulate the brain and are a natural signal that it is time to eat. "

Circling back to the original question, insomnia and RLS are considered separate conditions. If you're not already seeing a specialist, that would be worthwhile. Make sure you talk over the drugs that can cause problems for one condition or the other, such as over-the-counter sleep medications, melatonin, and especially ropinirole.

[Guitarpickin in reply to grassgree]

Grassgree, thanks for posting this! I’m a lifelong insomniac but have only suffered from RLS for the last 15-20 years with it getting worse in the last 5 or so. I do intermittent fasting (and absolutely love it) but didn’t understand why my sleep was often so poor (generally due to insomnia, not typically because of the RLS or PLMD) on the days where I only consume 500 calories, but this could be an explanation. I am not diabetic but definitely think this may be contributing to my problem. Very helpful! Thanks again!

[grassgree in reply to Guitarpickin]

Wow, if I actually did something useful today, I'm happy too. Thank you for posting.

[TheDoDahMan]

RLS is the cause of my being unable to sleep. Ropinirole (is that what you mean by "ropinole"?) is a dopamine agonist that is often prescribed to stop the leg jiggles so that sleep is attainable. However, dopamine agonists are no longer considered to be a first-line treatment for RLS because they often cause augmentation, in which they worsen the condition rather than help it.

Gabapentin, pregabalin, or low-dose opioids are now considered to be better solutions for the lack of sleep caused by RLS.

If you read up on augmentation, you may find that you should reconsider your use of ropinirole. Best of luck.

[SueJohnson]

You might want to ask your doctor about Minipress (prazosin) or Unisom (Doxylamine) for your insomnia.

[Hidden]

No one died from lack of sleep the figure from the us last year was 123 suicidal I suspect you only think you have RSL I’ve bean on that edge so many times

[TheDoDahMan in reply to Hidden]

Whether or not anyone has ever died from lack of sleep, it is undeniable that many suicides have occurred from depression caused by lack of sleep.

[Anne_liz in reply to Hidden]

I have often heard this said, but it seems it is not true. I read recently that research has shown that people who regularly have less than 6 hours of sleep a night are more prone to develop other serious health problems and increase the risk of early death by 12%.There is an article on this in the Independent newspaper online, but I have also read about it elsewhere.

[Hidden in reply to Anne_liz]

You know what I’m leaving this site because when a bowl of cornflakes kills you it’s time to leave the hypochondriacs to get on with it don’t reply I’ve gone into real world

[TEAH35]

Umm yeah. As somebody who's had both her entire life, couldn't have one without the other

[Lilaclady57]

I take Klonopin to sleep. It works great when my legs aren't dancing!

[help3]

klonipin 1 mg does not help me. my insomnia i believe all meds i have took since diagnosed with rls 2007 caused my insomnia which was until last year taking hydrocodone for last 10 years and ropinole has created my insomnia

[Lilaclady57]

Have you tried Melatonin yet? I've heard you may have to take a lot, but it works.

[help3 in reply to Lilaclady57]

yes made me tired, thats all. i have started taking red vein kratom. wow it really works

[Tobias10]

I keep a diary tracking what I've eaten or drank in the evening before bed, what time i go to bed, and what meds I've taken and it is still anyone's guess what kind of night I will have. I cannot connect any consumption of food or drink to whether I sleep good or at all. I just had 3 horrible nights with little or no sleep so last night I took an Ambien and slept for 7 hours. Last week I took an Ambien and was still aware 3 hours later. Like with everyone else here there is just no pattern for this disease. I've tried so many times to avoid chocolate and I drink decaf tea unless I'm at a restaurant. I now drink decaf ginger ale if I crave pop, but none of these changes seem to have any impact if I'm having a bad night with uncontrolled spasms. I'm off to get blood work again today to check my A1C and also see how my iron levels are. My latest neurologist has no declared that I have severe RLS and an opiod is the only solution but her office cannot support that type of medication. She has recommended I have a new sleep study done with someone who is a specialist in sleep studies, so that is happening as soon as I can get an appt. She also suspects that since I nearly died from Covid on Christmas day in 2020 that this has impacted the severity of my symptoms. I saw yesterday online that there is now a Center of Excellence for RLS at the University of Pittsburgh but I also noted that the doctor who is the director of the program is a specialist I saw a few years ago who was partially responsible for increasing my Pramipexole medication to the point that I was nearly twice over the maximum level and I ended up having to go off the medication cold turkey and had 17 days of withdrawal and serious suicidal thoughts, so seeing her in charge was very upsetting to me. I am hoping I can find a product like Ambien that I can use as needed without becoming dependent on it so that I can at least get a good night's sleep and be able to better deal with whatever the next day brings with the RLS.