Transferring to toilet

[Khartt]

We are having a terrible time transferring from the wheelchair to the toilet. We are using a sliding board from bed to wheelchair , wheelchair to recliner etc, but when I take him to use the toilet, he stands up but then freezes and cannot/ will not sit down. I’ve tried adult diapers, bedpan, both which he hates. I don’t know what to do? He will stand 30 minutes with me holding him up to keep him from falling... I can’t sit him down, I can’t move him. He’s usually locked on to a handheld or four facing as well and won’t let go. Any suggestions appreciated

[Hidden]

Do you have an occupational therapist to ask about this? They might have some idea. Best if they came to the house to do it.

[Khartt in reply to Hidden]

Yes, we have OT and they’ve been great with our ever changing needs. She’s coming tomorrow to work on this

[raincitygirl]

Hi Khartt; Can you try the wheeled commode? Would be the same transfer (I would think) as for bed to wheelchair? Then you empty the commode into the toilet at your leisure. He can sit on the commode for as long as he likes. As long as you can get the commode locked into position. For that matter probably doesn't have to be the wheeled one...? But point is, you can have the commode where you want: Bedside, sofa-side, whatever. So hubby isnt in a tiled "hard" room necessarily, (in case fear of falling there is what's holding him up....)

Anne G.

[Khartt in reply to raincitygirl]

Yes I’ve tried using the portable commode in a few different locations. Today I put it by the bed and was able to get him on it, although he didn’t accomplish the task ugh....

[raincitygirl in reply to Khartt]

I'm very sympathetic... It's so hard going through this intermediate stage of "some mobility but not enough - some bladder control but not enough, some communication ability but not enough...."

😫

Hugs!. Anne G.

[David750 in reply to raincitygirl]

We have a wheeled shower/commode chair that transfers my wife (PSP) from bed to toilet. The toilet is a closomat that the chair slides over. There is no pan attachment under the chair as the fixtures would prevent sliding over the closomat. However the chair's construction will enable me to place something under in case of accidents during transfer when that time comes. We have a hospital bed, the variable heights essential for transfers and will accommodate a hoist when needed in the future.

[Hidden]

Personally, l believe it is cannot sit down and not will not sit down. Freezes are a mystery like so many other health issues. I agree with Jeff... it would be helpful if an occupational therapist could come to your house & then give suggestions. Seeing is believing.

Sending hugs... Granni B

[Khartt in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for the reply . I know in my heart it’s a cannot sir instead of will not but gosh it is so frustrating

[Hidden in reply to Khartt]

I know... at times l thought my mother was acting like a defiant & will full two year old... hindsight tells me she really wasn't (at least not all the time). Keep your chin up. Your understanding friend... Granni B

[enjoysalud]

Khartt, perhaps you have already tried the following suggestion: I would "explain at length" that since he freezes (and perhaps using Mottsie's interpretation) while standing in front of the toilet, it's still very IMPORTANT that he eliminates (poops and pees), so would he PLEASE use the bed pan for defecation and the plastic urinal for urinating while you look into other suggestions.

Soon enough constipation may prove a CHALLENGE and you want to eliminate what "challenges" you can with the present.

He may hate the urinal and the bedpan and it's good for him to verbalize his frustration at having to use both, and you can verbally commiserate with how he feels, but can he PLEASE help YOU out.....in the meantime let him know you are following through on several suggestions, in the meantime......

Good luck!

[Marie_14]

Have you tried to unfreeze him by saying left right left right? Try it and see if it works. It worked for my husband.

You can get a commode which you can push to the bathroom. It has a pot inside so he can use that or if you have time you can remove it and just wheel it over the toilet. I saw 'just' but you really need help to do this as he will be like a dead weight or in danger of toppling over. Get some advice too as to the equipment you need.

Good luck.

Marie x

[Khartt in reply to Marie_14]

Yes I’ve tried left right left, ABCs, singing, tapping, music.

We’ve got a portable toilet I’ve been trying to use, he just won’t sit down. Today I put it at the foot of the bed and slid him down on it. OT will be here tomorrow to work on it

[AnneandChris]

Oh dear, we seem to be getting a similar problem. Chris seems to be getting stiffer and unable to bend in the middle which is more noticeable when he needs to go to the loo. He wears a Conveen 24/7 for wee, which means he only has to go to the loo for motions.

Hope the OT can help, keep on keeping on.

Anne

[Khartt in reply to AnneandChris]

Yes Anne, I don’t post a lot but I’ve noticed you and I seem to be on similar paths.

Thanks for the response, blessing to you!

[racinlady]

You may have seen the OT by now, but this may help anyway. We used a stand assist device for all transfers which worked perfectly with my husband. I could wheel him into position above the toilet, flip the seats up and he could lower himself onto the toilet. With the stand assist, they are in a semi-sitting position already so freezing shouldn't be a problem. We used a Lumex brand which sells for around $500. It was a life saver and completely eliminated any falls associated with transferring. I hope you are able to solve your problem.

Pat

[Khartt in reply to racinlady]

She’s coming this morning, I’ll ask about this, thank you !

[Bhakthan]

There is a wheelchair available with the toilet commode attached, also narrow enough to go through the narrow door, and this can be positioned over the WC (without the attached commode), whereby, the patient can complete passing stools, urinate as well as be bathed - all while sitting on this wheelchair. No shifting required, except from the cot to the wheelchair and vice versa!

[Katiebow]

I really feel for you both but don't have any extra suggestions to ones already offered here. I sincerely hope you get something sorted very soon and get back onto an even keel.

Sending love and support

Kate xxx

[Cuttercat]

We used a stander pole so he could hold on and move his body to toilet. Maybe not good for you but it was really helpful.

Cuttercat

[Baytalon]

I have just started investigating transfer methods. We are not there yet, but we are getting close. Seems like the decline has been pretty rapid of late. I'll be following to see what your OT says.

[Mamacass58]

Do you have a raised seat with the handles on it so it doesn't seem like such a drop down?

[Khartt in reply to Mamacass58]

Yes, we’ve had a 4” raised seat with handles for a while now. It was great before the freezing started.

[Birdman34265]

Maybe he needs a muscle relaxer like magnesium supplements or a medication to relax the body , must be really hard on you especially when he freezers ,I use a Sarah stedy to move Kathy to a commode for toileting.

Peter

[Khartt in reply to Birdman34265]

He is actually taking Baclofen for stiffness and Clonazepam for anxiety. It’s almost like on top of the stiffness and freezing, he has developed a phobia of sitting down on the toilet !

[Birdman34265 in reply to Khartt]

Does he have a fear of falling as psp patients fall backwards,or is

there side affects you are not aware of.

[Khartt in reply to Birdman34265]

He might be afraid of falling backward, or feeling like the toilet is too far away? But mostly he freezes if he comes to a complete stand up, which he only does when transferring.

[Khartt]

For those of you following, thanks for all the replies. Our new strategy is putting the bedside commode with the back against the bed and pulling him down on it. It’s not the most graceful maneuver but it worked yesterday. He never had the opportunity to stand up, so there was no freezing , and no where else to grab and not let go! Another thing the OT suggested was a drop arm bedside commode so we could use the sliding board to move him across. As this disease progresses, I’m sure all these things are temporary fixes but it gets us over some rough spots.

Karen