Should I avoid antioxidants supplements during radiation?
What about cannabis, edibles, CBD, THC? I understand there are antioxidants here, should I refrain from consuming?
Seems to be some controversy, is there any definitive studies in this?
thank you for any insights...
No controversy - avoid antioxidants during radiation - they do opposite things.
I never heard of this. Interesting though makes sense. So is it only during treatment? Or for a duration after as well?
Mostly during treatment. But antioxidants interfere with your body's defences against cancer. Why take them?
Never really thought about it. I always thought they fight it
That was the big learning we got from the large SELECT trial - that antioxidants can cause prostate cancer.
Dang it. Well I thought I was helping myself. Since I got diagnosed I’ve been taking Lycopene but only one a day, the bottle says a few a day. Vitamin D, Pomi T when I remember it and drinking Pomegranate juice and green tea. Also for the last few years I have almond milk/plant protein drink in the mornings gives me energy. Maybe the Lycopene is the only real antioxidant here.
Probably won't hurt you. I consumed cans of tomato paste when I was first diagnosed, so I do sympathize. Pomegranate and green tea was proved to have no benefit. Vitamin D has no benefit unless you are low. Dairy does not seem to be a problem.
That’s funny I was going to do tomato paste also but didn’t. Yeah Vit D I was low on for a few years so they wanted me taking it daily. Is there anything that helps right after treatment that I should be consuming or doing? I’ve been starting to hit the treadmill again etc.
Why do anything after curative treatment other than stay healthy? Heart disease is 20x the killer that prostate cancer is.
Thanks. Is it ok to work out? I know working out helps produce testosterone so is that ok to do or should I not for the time being.
Of course. In fact, the increased oxygenation from exercise helps radiation work better. It is the opposite of antioxidants - it increases cell oxygenation. I doubled my exercise regime during RT.
Hi TA, thanks for this, starting SBRT treatment today, do you have any more pearls of wisdom?
* daily cialis, no anti ox supps, increase exercise, ....
Thank you for all your help.
I did take NSAIDs starting Day 1. I don't know if it did anything, but I figured getting ahead of inflammation is easier than trying to reduce it afterwards. A couple of naproxen/day seemed pretty innocuous.
It was a non-event. They didn't even have me wear a gown and my RO didn't want any bowel prep other than taking a shit beforehand. I just laid down on the bench for 10 minutes, got up and went to the gym.
TA do you think drinking lots of water is helpful at all to help things along during and immediately after radiation? Seems to be helping me so wonder if there is anything to this.
You have to keep your bladder comfortably full.
Are we talking about large dose of antioxidant supplements in studies? I mean, antioxidants are in the healthy foods we must eat, so I am not sure how to think about this.
Yes- supplements only. Human biochemistry involves both oxidation and reduction. The body is a huge chemical factory. It can manufacture antioxidants and prooxidants from the foods we eat, the water we drink, and the air we breathe. Trying to outsmart millions of years of evolution by taking supplements is usually a bad idea (unless proven in a randomized clinical trial).
can we over do it also with our diet - should i stop a few cups of green tea every day and blueberries for example - should i avoid this while doing radiation especially? and also what about the daily multi-vitamin should i stop this forever? sorry for these questions, but when i look at my diet, actually there is quite a bit of antioxidents in there...
Our bodies are smarter than we are and are well-equipped to deal with a little under or over anything in our diets. The amount of antioxidants in some blueberries or a few cups of tea won't affect your body's biochemistry.
I can't emphasize enough how important I think exercise is during radiation. That's where we can get the oxygen boost that can overcome radioresistant hypoxia. And it may protect healthy tissues (not to mention preventing fatigue). There is a clinical trial now that I think will eventually support my beliefs. If I were an RO, I would have patients (with cardiologist permission) do 15 minutes on an exercise machine,measure cell oxygenation with an oximeter, and supply extra oxygen if needed. Just an opinion for now.
I agree with the exercise for sure. First week after treatment and I’m so for lack of a better word..blah.. I’m usually pretty motivated to hit the treadmill and weights.
With that for how long is the radiation still at work? I know the actual radiation is out but the cell changes etc.
The DNA damage has already been done, although the cancer cells may not yet "know" they are dead. Good oxygenation can still assist apoptosis of healthy cells and immune system attack of cancer antigens.
Hi Allen
You mention hypoxia.
In my build up to running marathons I used simulated altitude training to reduce my % SpO2 level down to sub 80.
Before this post I have started using my old equipment as my breathing was not as easy as normal.
My % is now under 90.
Is this going to be of any benefit in improving my oxygenation?
Thanks
You mean you have been intentionally depriving yourself of oxygen in order to raise your hemoglobin production? I guess that is good when you stop the deprivation so that your blood carries more oxygen.
Hi Allen
Yes.
This is the advantage that athletes from Kenyan and Ethiopia have from training at high altitude.
Thanks for your reply
Dave
What do you recommend TA for exercise for Intensity and duration. Do you think daily brisk walking is enough for an hour or two, or should I try for as much as I can handle including free weights. I am a little paranoid about knocking those fudicials around if I run, is that a risk?
I ran up and down steep slopes. No risk to fiducials. They immediately form scar tissue that sets them in place.
In the week before I had treatment I had to move a trailer at my shop. It started rolling and I had to really push on it hard. I was thinking great I bet I popped out a marker.. but I think it was all good or they wouldn’t have treated me
My Dr recommended no orgasms and no bike riding pounding the prostate. they used four makers, and if one moved its not an issue since that is redundant. but if two moved then they would have to redo the planning CT and the plan.
My Dr didn’t recommend anything lol. I didn’t even hear about the antioxidants until this forum last week. Makes me wonder even though they are the experts. I had 3 markers done not 4. Maybe different machine?
I had emailed the RO and asked if I was supposed to avoid the antioxidants. They said yes, I told them I wish they had let me know. They said what I was taking and taking during treatment was unlikely to effect the treatment that was done. I’m still scratching my head why I wasn’t told 🤷🏼♂️
Its disappointing. How hard is it for the Dr amd his team to have a .pdf with everything you need, a complete list of all tips and tricks...a complete package with everything you need,...soup to nuts, so to speak...😀. Would have helped me to see if all in advance.
Glad I rode my bike 5 miles to radiation treatments and more afterwards. Managed it on all but 3.
I have been taking Turmeric, Vit D ,CO Q10. L-Arginine, multivitamins, zinc, Green tea, pomegranate juice and recently added V8 . I thought these we’re all supposed to help fight cancer now I am seeing that it adds fuel to the fire?? Seems like there should be a definitive guide on diet and supplements! I have recurrent prostate cancer and PSA of .3 had a prostatectomy 2 yrs ago.
Here's your definitive guide to supplements: there is no evidence that any of them will increase your survival. (slight evidence for sulforaphane, but there are interferences).
Supplements are drugs. Would you take some random drug because some fool on the internet told you to? Of course not. Not only do they have unproven efficacy, they may be unsafe, interact with other drugs you are taking, affect your liver, unbalance biological systems, affect your microbiome, interfere with treatments (especially radiation and chemo), and interfere with biomarkers. Plus, what is in the bottle may not be reflected by the label - the FDA doesn't control them.
Thanks for the reply and for all the info you give on here. Also for keeping current, may God bless you and your work
Prostate cancer cells have extra cannabinoid receptors.
So for sure cannabis has a differential effect on those cells.
Dr. Snuffy Myers observations in a clinical setting led him to the conjecture that cannabis invigorates the growth of prostate cancer cells.
I don't believe there is any controlled peer review study out there evidencing the impact of cannabis on this greater number of cannabinoid receptors.
Given the role and functioning of the mammalian cannabinoid system, it is implausible that it's effect is neutral.
It gets really complex when you consider cancer in a human body and interactions with treatment. For the sake of argument, let's assume that THC accelerates the growth of prostate cancer in a petri dish. Does that accelerated growth make the cancer more vulnerable to chemotherapy that preferentially damages fast growing cells? How about the fact that many find cannibis relaxing, does the resulting lowered stress levels help the immune system fight the cancer?
Like any other drug, we need good quality studies in real human patients, and that's not going to happen as long as THC is considered an illegal drug at the federal level.
The evidence was casual clinical observation of patients who bragged about self medicating with cannabis from Dr. Myer's population of about 2000 prostate cancer patients.
Interesting, but not as good as a randomized trial. Patients with more severe disease might be more likely to use cannabis to manage symptoms.
Probably the best "quote" I've heard was an oncologist who observed that they had a lot of patients using cannabis, and wasn't seeing any unexplained cases of otherwise spontaneous remission.
Full disclosure: I'm a semi-regular user myself, and find it really helps with quality of life.
It was Dr. Snuffy Myers.
Next best thing to a randomized trial with placibo.
No one questions it's use for chronic pain neurological , of the type commonly associated with bone metastasis. That's not the issue.
Though there is a randomized study that contraindicates it for acute pain.
It's definitely not a medication that is good for all that ails you as many enthusiasts are won't to claim.
Like most powerful medications it has a complicated story. And is unwise to use indescriminatly.
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