Zoe article on inflammation and diet

[Broseley]

I get emails from Zoe, the dietary research company. This article is very interesting. It covers the link between lifestyle, particularly diet, and inflammation. Although the article headlines arthritis as a grabber, it actually covers all inflammatory conditions - PMR isn't specifically mentioned. I think it's a useful but long-winded article. The email offered a video or audio but I have attached the written transcript. It's rather long, and you can more easily skip through it by reading. There is a summary in the last few paragraphs. zoe.com/learn/inflammation-...

[Excelsior80]

very interesting! What I wonder about is that I have always had a pretty good diet and still got pmr, not a fan of processed food or biscuits and cakes .... I eat lots of vegetables, grow some of them, cook from scratch .... so I find these suggestions great for populations but less helpful individually. Like that Glucose Goddess programme, interesting to see how much better people get when they improve their diet but all of the people on the programme were eating so much processed food and sugary snacks to start with. Frustrating as theres nothing obvious I can do for myself. Though I can see as a society we need to change, especially as healthy food is often more expensive.

[pigeonCl-HU in reply to Excelsior80]

I agree with you, the more I listen to Zoe the more I get more of the same: eat well-mainly plant based, exercise, cut the sugar...yap, know it all. Could you, Zoe, tell me please something I don't know?

They have become so commercial, they try hard to flog their wares, their 'special program tailored for you', maybe good for some people, but I say:No thanks, you can keep it🙃

pigeon

[PMRpro Ambassador]

Just been discussing them with  Blearyeyed - there are some good tips in amongst all their hype but they are more interested in their financial bottom line than your or my health. I agree with  Excelsior80

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to PMRpro]

But the Katsumoto guy was good, despite JW (sorry, he really irritates me), and the dietary stuff is well worth reading in detail.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer]

As usual [unfortunately] the headline is incorrect - you cannot reverse arthritis per se, but you can manage it better - but then we already know that.

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

Plus agree with PMRpro... ZOE seems to concentrate more on financial gain over the last few years... I've been member since they started the Covid info programme... but have to say I am getting more disillusioned with some of the webinars and advice they promote

[Viveka in reply to DorsetLady]

Is there any particular advice you are suspicious of? (I do all the diet stuff listed - why do I still feel crap? 🫤 Perhaps I'd feel even worse if I didn't.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Viveka]

Not suspicious as such -but as I said getting a bit disillusioned with the “promotion” of their products..maybe not so much in this recent podcast.

Some of their stuff is still interesting and valid, but just feel that like most podcasts they are aimed at younger, healthier people -perhaps my cynical button is working overtime.. 🤨

[pigeonCl-HU in reply to DorsetLady]

Hi DL, you say "perhaps my cynical button is working overtime..."

I don't think so. I feel just the same; but then, maybe my cynical button is of the same make and model as yours.

pigeon

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to pigeonCl-HU]

CB? -could well be.. Need to keep it in good working order…😊

[pigeonCl-HU in reply to DorsetLady]

CB: what would we do without that lovely button.

I am polishing mine right now🙃

pigeon

[Viveka]

Thanks, good article, sending to my friend with RA.

[whitefishbay]

Long but interesting. Thanks.

[pigeonCl-HU]

Thank you Broseley, some helpful tips there, if one has a diet of processed food and biscuits; but then, not all of us do, yet we still have our niggles....?

pigeon.

[Sophiestree]

I think I am getting a tad tired of Zoe and the emails they send. Today's was headlined "How to reverse arthritis in 8 weeks" which I deleted without reading.

Reverse feels irresponsible to me.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Sophiestree]

My thoughts -hence comments above -.healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

[Sophiestree in reply to DorsetLady]

Ooops, I'm not with it today clearly....

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Sophiestree]

No probs….

[Sophiestree in reply to DorsetLady]

whereas this headline most certainly caught my eye

medscape.co.uk/viewarticle/...

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Sophiestree]

I read a discussion about the roles of PAs last year, think it might even have been on FB, where a PA was getting very shirty at the comments because they had been told by a lecturer at college that they would qualify at the same level as an F1/F2 junior doctor, the ones in pre-registration posts. Now I do my utmost to avoid turning up in the ED in early August and early February because I don't fancy being at their mercies. But you tell me how a 3 year medical science degree and a 3 year training makes them equivalent to doctors? My daughter is an ACP and doesn't consider herself a "doctor" and SHE has done the medical science degree, a 2-3 year foundation degree as a paramedic, worked 10 years on the road, and did TWO Masters degrees and 3 or 4 years on the job training in the ED to be an ACP. I really don't approve of the roles some PAs end up in and the job title should NOT include physician.

[Sophiestree in reply to PMRpro]

It's interesting isn't it. All of the studying and working your daughter has done against someone who feels they are fully qualified to diagnose without assistance.

When this was first muted about 20 years ago or more I read about it and decided quite quickly that this was fraught with dangers. For the PA's as much as the patients, why would you want that responsibility on your hands without someone to call on for help.

My doctors surgery sometimes uses paramedics for appointments and I have always found them to be very receptive and reactive, so can't fault them against some of the locum GPs they use, who recently dismissed my daughter who asked for bloods done as she had had a fever for 6 weeks and a productive cough (she has history of lung issues and is under a consultant), he dismissed her and she walked out. Rang the surgery to complain and was given a blood form, only to be called back after the results.

I feel if you don't fight your corner these days you are in a lot of trouble going forward.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Sophiestree]

I think actually that paramedics probably do have a place in GP surgeries - as triage if nothing else. That's what they do on the ambos as well as deal with minor injuries. Some of my daughter's colleagues have gone that way and love it. Better hours, no lying in a ditch keeping someone alive ...

[Sophiestree in reply to PMRpro]

Absolutely. I am happy if I am seeing a paramedic

[Thelmarina in reply to Sophiestree]

My surgery was dubious about PAs from the start, partly because, unlike the PA in the article, our PA was constantly interrupting the doctor for help - ie training - so they took up more time than was saved. Other auxiliary roles have helped with GPs having 15 mins per apt instead of 10.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Sophiestree]

Oh my gosh… dreadful..

[Excelsior80 in reply to Sophiestree]

article interesting but title felt clickbaity

[Palgeo]

Thank you for this recommendation. Although PMR is not mentioned specifically, as you said Broseley, it would come under the more general autoimmune disease description. There’s a great deal discussed in this Zoe article that would persuade even the most reluctant (I include myself) to take a really close look at ones diet as a possible cause and, with change, a major contributor to a return to better health when it comes to not only PMR but other life-limiting diseases, including cancer. Today, I take a forensic look at the contents of my fridge and food cupboard.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Palgeo]

That is our point - it IS very persuasive. Have you read the rest of the thread?

There is a lot more to it than diet but diet is important in some respects. Between us on the forum over many years we know that being vegan, vegetarian, gluten-free, alcohol-free and whatever doesn't make that much difference to symptoms. Any of those classifications still developed PMR. A better diet compared to the modern UPF-saturated western diet is likely to make you feel better, cutting UPFs and simple carbs in general and added sugar is likely to lower your risk of weight gain and developing steroid induced diabetes.

[Palgeo in reply to PMRpro]

I heard the Zoe discussion as informing audiences on the beneficial effects of adapting to a plant-based diet in order to reduce inflammation. My PMR diagnosis came about as a result of my description of my symptoms and my raised inflammatory markers. I think having a go at changing my diet towards greater dependence on plant foods and avoiding upfs etc might work to reduce the inflammation that I clearly had.

If a plant-based diet can reduce inflammation, could I ask a couple of questions?

Could I have avoided my dependence on steroids (while suffering the PMR pain for longer in the process)? This dependence is likely to be the cause of me becoming pre diabetic / losing my hair/ finding it difficult to lose weight/suffering intermittent low mood, etc.

Does soaring inflammation also cause the resulting disease to become auto-immune? I’m confused on the chicken-and-egg relationship here.

So grateful for your comments.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Palgeo]

I don't think so - we have vegetarians and vegans on the forum who have had the same problems as everyone else. And a couple of people have claimed to have sorted their symptoms by adopting a paleo-diet - no plants at all!!

I had PMR for 5 years, undiagnosed, on no pred and at no point did it burn out and even feel less bad, never mind go into remission. It is still around after 20+ years. Two years be blowed!!!

I don't eat a lot of meat, never more than 100g and not every day by any means, I eat more veg than my vegan daughter and granddaughter and I eat almost no UPFs, at home I buy none, I eat the occasional bowl of unflavoured crisps with my Aperol spritz on the cafe terrace but otherwise, all cooked from scratch meals - even pizza and a meal out are freshly prepared by the cook in the kitchen using fresh or frozen ingredients. It is the nature of life in Italy.

I lost 35lbs of PMR/pred weight in a low carb diet - while still on 10-15mg pred. True I'm overweight, but I have been almost all my life. I'm pretty sure that low carb and TRE (time restricted eating) keeps my Hba1c in bounds.

Low mood is part of PMR - and the underlying disease process is ongoing, the pred doesn't touch that, it is a management strategy for the inflammation that causes the physical symptoms and probably contributes to the low mood.

Wrong way round - the autoimmune/autoinflammatory disorder is the cause of the inflammation. Something has disturbed the immune system - it always creates some inflammation, inflammation isn't always bad, it is instrumental in fighting off infections and in early stages of healing. But something happens to make the immune system no longer able to identify body tissues as "Self" and not damage them. It turns on various bits of the body and creates unwanted inflammation. Your diagnosis depends a bit on how that then presents.

[Palgeo in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you so much. I appreciate your support greatly. Happy Sunday.

[Broseley]

You can live the perfect life, but, sounding rather maudlin, something will get you in the end. My dad didn't drink, smoke or snack, ate healthily all his life, never put weight on, exercised regularly, had all his own teeth. Apart from psoriasis, he was never ill. But dementia got him in the end (at the age of 91).

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Broseley]

My husband had an elderly German colleague who was evangelical about not smoking and would harangue his colleague who was very German and smoked like a lum. One day the smoker listed a load of different points but at the end asked "We must all die - is that not inevitable?" Yes, agreed Dietrich. So, said the smoker triumphantly, YOU will die healthier than ME!!!

[Broseley in reply to PMRpro]

😆

[sabinewoman]

Thank you for this. I changed diet 2 weeks ago, (I was already gluten and dairy free, for over 10 years). Saying that, I could still have butter and preferred goats, but as I no longer eat anything that you would put butter on - except sweet potato baked which I put e v olive oil on. I had just started eating bits of the eggshell membrane when I have my soft boiled egg in the am, after a whole grapefruit - which are both anti-inflammatory and have many other benefits. Lunch is now, baby leaf salad - known to have the most nutrients - baby toms, cucumber, either fresh or tinned salmon or sea bass, sardines, spring or red onion, apple sometimes, or avocado, some Himalayan salt, (anti-inflammatory), on the toms, balsamic and olive oil, (both anti-inflammatory) etc. In the evening I have various bits of fruit or veg raw - carrots, banana, Romanesco cauli, berries etc. So far I have felt full, not missed the old diet except one night when I did lamb with salad pots and veg for my family as I couldn't resist the lamb! However, I have then jumped back into the veg/fish/fruit diet. YES it may cost a bit more but aren't we all worth it? I like KOKO coconut milk - orange pack, no sugar, and am lucky that I have been having it for years. Years ago, I worked up gradually to 85% DARK chocolate and have 2 to 4 squares a day, which I know has sugar and salt in, so I am going to try to go up to 90%, maybe dipped in raw honey, (which is anti-inflammatory). I will try and have some turkey/chicken/duck when I do it for the others as that has other benefits, but only sweet potatoes allowed. Apparently ghee, (can reduce inflammation), Sainsbury's do big tubs on their back wall of ethnic items . Anyway, thank you again for the article - which makes you realise the importance of making the effort to change and I hope my diet helps others with ideas. As I am not keen on green tea, I am trying hydrangea root tea with a tsp of raw honey, which tastes fine and thank goodness redbush/rooibus is anti inflammatory too, along with a coffee but maybe not to excess, cocoa - Sainsburys do a pot of it with nothing else in it, which I mix with my coconut milk and a tsp raw honey, or substitute maca powder and a little cinnamon. Good Luck everyone.