Masks, pro or con?: I still see a lot... - Parkinson's Movement

Parkinson's Movement

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Masks, pro or con?

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh

I still see a lot of people claiming masks don't protect from Covid. Yesterday I was at a funeral and reception. Everyone at the funeral wore masks and most kept them on at the reception. But I must have shaken hands three-dozen times with no hand-washing stations in sight.

I guess if anyone gets sick they'll use it as proof that masks don't work.

84 Replies
oldestnewest

You are so right, Kaypeeoh. Did you carry your own sanitizer though?

"...masks don't protect from Covid" is an inconsiderate statement. It's true that masks only give the wearer a little protection, but masks protect other people from the wearer.

It seems that masks may be more useful for protecting others from getting Covid-19 from you, so I consider it a courtesy to others around me and if everyone does the same, I could see where viral spread will be significantly reduced. Some people are selfish and don't really care much about others, only that it is an inconvenience to them to have to wear a mask and don't want to be bothered.

Until studies prove exactly how much protection masks offer, it is likely safer to use them despite the inconvenience. I have seen a friends family of 7 members in one house all die from Covid-19, so I know for some people this disease is straight up deadly!

Art

ConnieD
ConnieD in reply to chartist

I definitely think masks are important. If it protects yourself and others it’s a small thing to do. Part of the problem is some people aren’t wearing them correctly and wear it under their nose. I agree many are selfish especially many in the younger generation 20+, they feel invincible. We all may have felt that way when we were young but there wasn’t a deadly virus spreading worldwide.

chartist
chartist in reply to ConnieD

Connie,

Unfortunately the selfishness is not confined to the young. In this video the son has to carry his outraged dad out of the store :

youtu.be/h1PVkCT4rSE

Art

ConnieD
ConnieD in reply to chartist

You’re right Art it’s not just the younger generation. If everyone did what they were supposed to I wonder if the situation would be better than it is. It makes sense that it would be better, New Zealand seems to be doing great, no masks. Life looks normal again there, they won’t let any of us in but it would be a great vacation! 😊

ConnieD
ConnieD in reply to ConnieD

I spoke too soon! Today they mentioned New Zealand had some new cases! Ugh 😩

Jennyjenny2
Jennyjenny2 in reply to ConnieD

At present New Zealand authorities are investigating that freight from Australia could be the possible source of the outbreak...

ConnieD
ConnieD in reply to Jennyjenny2

Interesting, thank you 😊

Jennyjenny2
Jennyjenny2 in reply to ConnieD

Apparently two workers at Americold coolstore facility in Melbourne recently tested positive, as did a worker at the Auckland NZ facility.

Americold’s covid-linked coolstore facility supplies supermarkets and fast-food outlets.

A reminder that one can’t be too complacent.

Masks definitely work. If nothing else you would get a lesser load of the virus and if you do get it your disease should be milder.

Did people use hand sanitizer?

In Asian countries that have dealt with previous virus outbreaks masks are ubiquitous -- and it's considered a discourtesy to go without if you have a cold or other infectious condition. They've learned from experience, why would we even question this? Do we really need to reinvent the wheel?

pdpatient
pdpatient in reply to rebtar

Rebtar, sadly in this harsh tone of the current political climate, all sanity and altruism is out the window.

rebtar
rebtar in reply to pdpatient

Yes, you are right.

I'm more surprised everyone was shaking hands? I haven't shaken hands with anyone since early March... and haven't witnessed anyone doing it either.

Jennyjenny2
Jennyjenny2 in reply to NDTO

Ditto!

I haven't shaken hands in many years. I used to have to make an excuse like arthritis. Now, I don't need to say anything.

MarionP
MarionP in reply to ForViolet

I like the arthritis line.

pdpatient
pdpatient in reply to ForViolet

ForViolet, well spoken. Trump (through his ghost writer) says something similar in his book - the art of the comeback🤣. Now, he insists on shaking hands.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says "Face Mask NOT RECOMMENDED & NOT HELPFUL". Putting on a mask results in touching your face and they say do NOT touch your Nose, Mouth, Ears or Face, so best not to use a mask. iqdcalls.com/mask.html

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to jayb12

The CDC is now advocating for the wearing of masks on their website.

marilw
marilw in reply to jayb12

Check the date of this info and the current recommendation.

jayb12
jayb12 in reply to marilw

Flip Flop. They do not get a pass from me. We all need to think for ourselves and distance yourself from TV youtu.be/kPvmvxEi16g

grower
grower in reply to jayb12

ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41790...

Dr. Anthony Fauci: "Mask are mostly symbolic" and "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask." | 60 Minutes Interview bitchute.com/video/46r5cSxY...

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to jayb12

He now says wear a mask. The initial rhetoric around masks was due to the fact that there was a global shortage of PPE and it was more important that doctors could get the masks.

jayb12
jayb12 in reply to ChrisWF

So he is a lier?

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to jayb12

It was a complex combination of a new disease that was not very well understood (as it was new) and the need for the preservation of PPE.

Life is not linear. Complex situations are complicated. Masks are not the silver bullet. Neither is hand washing. Or social distancing. Even a vaccine wont be. Thats why we put all these things together to slow the spread of the virus in order to maintain a functioning healthcare system and hopefully mitigate the damage whilst we improve our tools.

grower
grower in reply to jayb12

He has explained why he initially discouraged mask use as they were trying to keep main use for hospitals but since more has been learned of the virus spread he has been promoting the use of them to help stop the spread. They are such a simple thing to use, and perhaps another way to look at it is that if the wearing of masks doesn't help and everyone wears them for a while, no harm done. But if, as they are all saying now, mask wearing will help your neighbour stay healthy and you don't wear one, then we're all losers.

jayb12
jayb12 in reply to grower

Main stream media in 2009 "Face masks help sick, not healthy, docs say" youtu.be/645VJny2DAg

The Face Mask Pandemic youtu.be/kPvmvxEi16g

Breathing deep keeps your oxygen level high and lungs stronger and wearing mask discourages breathing deep.

When wearing a mask you are breathing your own carbon dioxide which is harmful to your immune system, lungs, and health in general.

Surgeons Mask NEED TO BE REPLACED EVERY every 2 hours of use. And need to be replaced between the interaction of each person.

Seems like yesterday if you walk into store with the mask on the police might be called. Now you walk into the store without a mask and you might get the police called on you.

Let's stop embracing the lie of mask-wearing thank you.

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to jayb12

"When wearing a mask you are breathing your own carbon dioxide which is harmful to your immune system, lungs, and health in general."

No, you aren't. This is not a real thing. It is made up. Unless by 'mask' you mean plastic bag that you have sealed around your neck, in which case yes, you'll be dead in a matter of minutes.

grower
grower in reply to jayb12

2009...

grower
grower in reply to jayb12

Did you read about the Dr in England that just ran 22 miles wearing a three layered cloth mask and tested his oxygen levels (great at 98%) to show that the health aspects of mask wearing are just fine? Where do you get the info that surgeons replace masks every two hours? As far as I understand it it's just when they get wet.

We could go on but maybe if you think of it like this; if you're right and no one needs to wear masks to slow transmission of the virus but we all wear masks, no one loses. If I'm right, we need to wear masks and no one does, we all lose.

marilw
marilw in reply to jayb12

No

The scientists I have learned to trust say the particles are too small for a mask to stop from going through the larger holes in masks of any kind. Masks do no good. It's all a scam . Why? To get us used to complying all around the world?

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to bepo

You also believe that 5G causes the coronavirus (it doesn't), that George Soros owns the New York Times (he doesn't), that the MJFF is funded by and an agent of big pharma (it isnt), that Bill Gates is some sort of wierd thing that has committed numerous international crimes (that he definitely isn't and hasnt) that B1 stops the progression of parkinsons disease (it doesnt), and that literally everything that happens on earth (except for what you and George do) is all simply part of a big pharma conspiracy.

The mere fact that you oppose masks further confirms my belief that they are worthwhile. If you said that water was wet i would start to have doubts about it.

bepo
bepo in reply to ChrisWF

From now on, I will use you to get all my information.

GioCas
GioCas in reply to bepo

LOL

MarionP
MarionP in reply to bepo

If they really are scientists, then when they say that, they are prepared to pony up with actual evidence when you ask them to "then show me the science.," which they fully expect to hear and are well used to doing all their professional careers.

bepo
bepo in reply to MarionP

Previously, I have presented the science on this site. I was then told by admin I had to stop posting on Covid because this is a PD site.

bepo
bepo in reply to bepo

Fauci’s recent support of universal masking and goggle-wearing is in stark contrast to comments he made back in March 2020, when he stated that “people should not be walking around with masks” because “it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often there are unintended consequences: People keep fiddling with their mask and they keep touching their face.”

I, for one, believe this is part of a larger agenda to not only to have mandatory masking, but, once people are compliant, without questioning, then to have mandatory vaccinations all around the world. Gates stated that is his goal.

rhyspeace12
rhyspeace12 in reply to bepo

God, give me vacinations when i need them. Let me wear a mask. Quit using magical thinking,. You will die no matter what you do, sooner or later, but don't add your weird beliefs to mine. Excuse me if i sound frustrated, but my husband died from Parkinson's and rarely did anything help for long! It just progresses down to the inevitable end, Its' Parkinson's.!!!!

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to rhyspeace12

CNN just mentioned 'anti-vacc' people spreading more disinformation about masks and vaccines.

bepo
bepo in reply to kaypeeoh

Individuals and organizations such as Children’s Health Defense that speak out on vaccine safety issues are being censored in an unprecedented manner in both mainstream media and social media platforms. Censorship is redefining even basic concepts such as informed consent by labeling all content that runs counter to government and industry claims regarding the safety and efficacy of vaccines as “misinformation.”

MarionP
MarionP in reply to bepo

I didn't mean you so much, I meant actual scientists, presumably those you refer to as scientists.

bepo
bepo in reply to MarionP

"Not a single randomized controlled trial with verified outcome has been able to detect a statistically significant advantage of wearing a mask versus not wearing a mask, when it comes to preventing infectious viral illness."

articles.mercola.com/sites/...

MarionP
MarionP in reply to bepo

And that has to do with protecting only the wearer from infection. That and nothing else.

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to bepo

There aren't any randomised controlled trials into the efficacy of B1 for PD either, but you have gone all-in on that. I bet george is taking and doing all sorts of other stuff that hasnt been proven in a clinical trial either.

Suddenly you require gold plated clinical trials before you believe something? Funny.

bepo
bepo in reply to ChrisWF

He's doing really well. How are you doing with your PD?

marilw
marilw in reply to bepo

Please stay away from me.

marilw
marilw in reply to bepo

What scientists have you consulted? Drs. D. Trump and M. Pence ?

grower
grower in reply to bepo

Here's a good piece on it if you're wondering about the science behind it ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41790...

jayb12
jayb12 in reply to bepo

Agree don't comply to the LIES!

It's sophistry to say that masks are ineffective because the virus is small enough to get through mesh of a mask. Virus doesn't float happily in the air waiting for a body to collide so it can infect you. Instead it exists on moisture droplets which are what spreads the infection. Masks catch these droplets when YOU exhale so YOU are protecting others. And if YOU opt to eschew a mask YOU are responsible for spreading the virus.

bepo
bepo in reply to kaypeeoh

From the same citation on the link I provided: "If there were any significant advantage to wearing a mask to reduce infection risk to either the wearer or others in the vicinity, then it would have been detected in at least one of these trials, yet there's no sign of such a benefit

There is no evidence that masks are of any utility for preventing infection by either stopping the aerosol particles from coming out, or from going in. You're not helping the people around you by wearing a mask, and you're not helping yourself avoid the disease by wearing a mask

Infectious viral respiratory diseases primarily spread via very fine aerosol particles that are in suspension in the air. Any mask that allows you to breathe therefore allows for transmission of aerosolized viruses"

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to bepo

IF a person is wearing a mask and catches the virus, it's from virions attaching to the eye's mucous membrane or the person's hands. My point was nobody was using hand sanitizer at the funeral. So if I get sick I'm to blame because of shaking 30+ hands.

That's scary. That's what we have always done. Our world has turned upside down because of this corona virus. It is the flu. There is a more sinister agenda here. You won't hear the truth from governments or mainstream media. We were told, for example, that the protest march in Berlin, there were 17,000 protesters. They took a count before the protest even started. There were an estimated a million who protested the mandatory masks and lock downs. They should know because of their history in the '30's and 40's.

marilw
marilw in reply to bepo

COVID - 19 is not the Flu !

bepo
bepo in reply to marilw

Dr. Fauci’s paper rightly points out the likelihood that there is a massive submerged iceberg of asymptomatic or mild cases of COVID-19 that have gone completely unacknowledged and untested, and that therefore the death toll from COVID-19 is more akin to seasonal influenza at 0.1%.

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to bepo

But Bepo, only 3 weeks ago you were convinced that case numbers were inflated?

i.postimg.cc/mDDgF0Fr/Scree...

Which is it? Are there millions of undetected cases or are the reported numbers an over-inflation?

It can't be both.

Also, do you consider Dr Fauci credible now? That's new too.

marilw
marilw in reply to bepo

When are you referring to the history in Berlin in the 30s and 40s ?

I agree. I have observed doctors and nurses wearing masks for my whole life. Why? If wearing masks makes sense for the medical community, then it makes sense in the times of Covid.

bepo
bepo in reply to PalmSprings

Many firmly believe wearing a mask in public will protect themselves and/or others, and one of the reasons for this is because they appear to work in some circumstances, such as operating rooms. If they don’t work, why do surgical staff and many health care workers use them on a regular basis?

As explained by Rancourt, the reason surgical masks are worn in the operating room is to prevent spittle from accidentally falling into an open wound, which could lead to infection. Surgical masks have been shown to be important in that respect.

Preventing microbes and bacteria from falling into an open wound is very different from preventing the spread of viral particles, however. Not only are viruses much smaller than bacteria and many other microbes found in saliva, they are, again, airborne. They’re aerosolized and part of the fluid air. Therefore, if air can penetrate the mask, these aerosol particles can also get through.

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to bepo

Wear a mask and the moisture in your breath creates a barrier to virus. Moisture is water and water is a polar molecule. This makes virus adhere because it's the opposite polarity.

bepo
bepo in reply to kaypeeoh

From an award winning scientist: "|The body requires AMPLE amounts of oxygen for optimal immune health. Especially during a so-called “pandemic”. Proper oxygenation of your cells and blood is ESSENTIAL for the body to function as it needs to in order to fight off any illness. [Rowen note: the heat and humidity of your breath on the fabric of the mask might also provide a perfect incubator for microbes which you will repeatedly inhale].

“””Masks will hamper oxygen intake. Unless you are working in a hospital setting, it is NOT necessary. "

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to bepo

The entire field of alternative medicine seems to revolve around oxygen. Many diseases result from less-than optimal oxygen at the cellular level. We have adapted to the microbes on our skin. As long as they stay on the skin they cause no problems. But this is different Dr Rowen showed that IV ozone kills virus that's already in the body.

Masks give the body an extra edge.

bepo
bepo in reply to kaypeeoh

The following is a riot! Ready for a good laugh?facebook.com/teresareed58/v...

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to bepo

She makes perfect sense to me. Maybe someone doesn't like the hair. Or maybe they do. Or maybe they don't.

bepo
bepo in reply to kaypeeoh

You're funny :)

bepo
bepo in reply to kaypeeoh

Our doc, a former emergency room doc, stated masks do no good. They don't stop viruses. He said that when he was doing surgery, they wore masks to prevent a cough or sneeze from going onto an open wound. He said when they had a virus, they stayed home. Here is a quote from Children's Health Defense:

Mandating millions of healthy people, young and old, to wear cloth masks is perhaps the most troublesome “solution” that, as it turns out, also delivers little benefit with a suffocating cost. On a very basic level, we all understand the size of the particle compared to the size of the filter, matters…right? The image of throwing sand against a chain link should come to mind. What we know is masks can filter some bacteria and contaminants, but given the size of viruses at 0.06-0.125 microns, cloth masks are virtually incapable of blocking their aerosolized transmission. Numerous randomized controlled studies not only demonstrate they are woefully ineffective at stopping transmission, but, some have even shown masks to INCREASE infection due to repeated touching and trapping of germs [1,2,3,4,5,8,13]. The overwhelming data simply does not support the assertion they will protect from a virus.

Masks have been branded now as virtuous despite the realities of compromised health. We are designed to breath in oxygen-rich (O2) air and we exhale carbon dioxide (CO2), a metabolic waste product. Meanwhile, our brain is dependent on an adequate and continuous supply of oxygen in order to optimally produce cellular energy to support life. The central nervous system is thereby extremely vulnerable to inadequate O2 supply. [16,17,18,19,20,21,22,25]. Normal atmospheric oxygen level is 20.9%. But when wearing a mask, a portion of the carbon dioxide waste exhale displaces the O2 inside the mask, and thereby we re-inhale our own CO2 exhale. Clearly, when we re-inhale a portion of our exhale, we are obstructing optimal O2/CO2 gas exchanges, otherwise known as breathing, an activity that, up to recently, we all recognized as the most vital action we engage in to stay alive!

ChrisWF
ChrisWF in reply to bepo

No one here but you takes any notice whatsoever of children's health defence. You desperately need another tune.

Come on, people, because wearing a mask is a little bit uncomfortable, we’re going to fight for our rights to spread a dangerous disease, no matter the human cost?!

Current theory is that your chances of severe infection are based on how big a “dose” of the virus you get. Wearing a good mask reduces what you spread, and reduces what you breathe in.

Turns out that face masks, not bandannas/neck gaiters, are your best bet for slowing down the spread of the virus. (See excerpt below, from cnbc.com/amp/2020/08/11/stu...).

“In experiments, bandanas, handkerchiefs, fleece balaclavas (cold-weather gear that covers the entire face except for the eyes) and neck gaiters (tubes of performance fabric typically used for running outdoors), offered very little protection, while N95 respirators, surgical masks and even homemade cloth masks performed better.”

They wore masks in the 1918 flu epidemic. My Mom was born in 1917. Maybe someone's mask saved her life. She'd already lost her brother to diptheria. Why not just try to helpful others, not worry that you are conforming to something you don't want to do.

Well New Zealand has just had a community transmission. First case in 100 days. So I trialled my mask at the supermarket. Really annoying steaming up of the glasses so I cant see. Has anyone got a solution to the fogging of glasses? I feel I might trip over and end up in hospital from not being able to see🤣🤣

chartist
chartist in reply to LAJ12345

I make sure the bottom of my safety glasses are resting on the skin just above the mask. When my safety glasses are resting on my mask, they fog up. When the safety glasses are resting on skin and not the mask, they fog up much less. I don't know if it is the same with all masks, but that is how it is with the N-95 mask that I use with safety glasses.

Art

LAJ12345
LAJ12345 in reply to chartist

Mmmm my glasses don’t rest anywhere except my nose as they are a bit narrower than safety glasses.

GioCas
GioCas in reply to LAJ12345

Laj

my optician gave me a special cloth that once I clean my glasses does not fog up anymore. It probably contains an anti-fog substance. This is quite common.

NellieH
NellieH in reply to chartist

Try to make sure that the mask is sealed tightly over the bridge of your nose. (A good mark will have wiring along the upper edge. ) It's your exhaled breath getting up under your glasses that's causing the fogging.

HersheysMom
HersheysMom in reply to LAJ12345

Try a different type of mask. I find that some steam up my glasses but other styles don't.

Yes, spit on them and then dry them or wash them in a soap solution and dry them. It helps.

I'm a veterinarian and used a medical mask in surgery for 40+ years. Because I wear glasses I needed to add a strip of white medical tape across the top of the mask to stop fogging. Not a big deal, it'll work for non-medical masks.

You look very handsome in your suit n matching mask.

We all take levodopa and various other meds and supplements and work out etc in the hope that these MAY help on our PD journey. They do not cure us only aid us.

Masks MAY help and aid us to prevent the spread of covid-19.

Wear a mask is it really that hard.

masks are required.......surgeons have been wearing them for yrs not just for fun....bubonic/numonic plague drs wore masks like birds beaks stuffed with herbs and moss as filters as even 200 yrs ago they suspected transmission by air..they called it miasma....bad air. hang tough. oh sand would you rather have a Kleenex over your face if a covid person coughs in your face or not? cheers......

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