Fava beans and Parkinsons

[racerCP]

Has anyone contemplated eating dopamine-rich food instead of medications? I'm still battling with myself whether to fill the prescription for neupro patch 2mg per day. Anyone do the patch alone, no other meds?

[BUZZ1397]

Sorry, i am a bit confused because I am ignorant of any foods that are dopamine rich. At the same time I am all ears to know more about why you wrote about beans. I have consistently had better Parkinson's tremor days the day after a meal consisting of a large portion of dried beans that I prepared myself, not a commercial product. Consequently I often include pintos, kidneys, lentils etc in my diet. Please reference what made you become interested in beans for Parkinson's

[oceanflower in reply to BUZZ1397]

When I first was diagnosed with Parkinson's, I researched natural alternatives, being the kind of person that never took pills... and I stumbled upon "fava beans" (and mecuna beans, which I've never seen up here in Canada - You should contact "Aunt Bean" for all you wanted to know about these beans through Parkinson's Recovery website and google that, something is bound to show up). Of course, 3 years later, my dresser has on it an array of vitamins, minerals, and Sinemet, Mirapex (a D/A) and of course, my friend, the nasty-tasting sleeping pill. However, I must say Fava beans, even canned, made a difference when I was taking them. I noticed a lot of benefits! I went overboard, and started putting beans in muffins, appetizers, soups, dinner...and then I got a little tired of them - or at least preparing them all the time. I OD'd on eating beans! And, I then realized the pros of popping a pill...after all, if I want to travel, I'm not going to cart around Fava Beans, or spend time trying to hunt them down in foreign lands! I might go back to them, as a supplementary thing, since they have no (or fewer?) side effects. By the way, if you have a garden, you can grow them in cool spring weather, and mild summers. Apparently the baby pods are most potent. Or, go to an Italian or Iranian grocer when they are in season. Good luck! If you start eating them, and you want some recipes, message me - I've got a few nice ones I can share with you!

[BUZZ1397 in reply to oceanflower]

Thanks. If I can buy some in our local grocery I'll cook a batch. Black-eye peas also seem to benefit me.

[racerCP in reply to oceanflower]

Thanks for your input. I have just started trying this. I used frozen fava beans and steamed them, eaten them plain with no protein an hour before or after . I am using this before starting meds as a last resort and that is only because I still can.

[BUZZ1397 in reply to oceanflower]

I've got a bag of blanched fava beans, had them yesterday and today at lunch. Pretty bland and chewy; are they always chewy? I followed directions and simmered for about an hour but am going to simmer for longer in the future to see if I can soften them. I've combined them with brown rice and some little pieces of smoked sausage and diced onion. Thanks for nudging me in their direction.

[racerCP in reply to BUZZ1397]

Buy frozen fava beans, steam for about five minutes eat plain with no protein and see if you feel better. Latin markets usually have them.

[BUZZ1397 in reply to racerCP]

Thanks. If I can find the fresh or frozen I'll try it. We have a vegetable steamer. Appreciate it.

[racerCP in reply to BUZZ1397]

Keep it simple. Latin markets are likely to have frozen fava beans as it is used in many dishes. I think it is most effective before eating any protien so eat it by itself and wait a half an hour or a bit more before eating protien, which is the rule with l-dopa drugs as well. I am still trying to assess whether it works but will keep you posted.

[metacognito]

Try a Google search: scienzavegetariana.it/nutri...

"Fava beans contain levodopa, the same chemical in Sinemet, Madopar, Dopar, Larodopa, and other levodopa-containing medicines used to treat PD"

Also PubMed abstract: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[BillDavid]

Perspective, my understanding BillDavid

Itake lovadopa (senement, with the goal of increasing production of dopa mine in my brain. Lovadopa is a precursor. My Neurologist, explained that the reason Lovadopa was used was that it could pass through the blood brain barrier. He went on to

mention that sopamine, itself, did not.pass through this barrier?

[racerCP in reply to BillDavid]

Thank you... So dopa in food does not Pass to the brain??

[BillDavid in reply to racerCP]

that is my understanding from my Neurolkogist

BillDavid

[Donzim in reply to BillDavid]

then why does macuna work?

[BillDavid in reply to Donzim]

Donizim

Again, I make no claim to being an expert. the post referred to beans and dopamine.. Your reply suggests that information provided by my Neurologist was, not accurate.

That is a proposition worth looking at. l ran a couple of searches on Google. I will attach excerpts following.. I have no personal experience with the beans. I don't know whether they work or not? after reading the excerpt below, seems like a response would be NOT BECAUSE OF THE DOPAMINE!

BillDavid

Why can't dopamine cross the blood-brain barrier, while L-dopa or other substituted phenethylamines can?

2 Answers

Teddy Poh, MD, writer of teddybrain.wordpress.com

3.8k Views

The blood brain barrier (BBB) is formed by endothelial cells with the presence of tight junctions and a relative lack of transcytotic vesicular transport or receptor-mediated endocytosis. This prevent most substances to cross over such barrier. It requires the presence of specific receptor in the membrane to transport relevant substances. Otherwise, diffusion across the BBB is possible for lipophilic molecules, even then, some lipophilic molecules may be actively re-exported out by the endothelium of the brain.

Levodopa, however, has such receptor known as L-amino acid transporter (LAT) to transport it across BBB and decarboxylated into dopamine. Receptors for dopamine in BBB may not exist or too little to call for a clinical significant.

Fava Beans, Levodopa, and Parkinson's Disease

by Kathrynne Holden, MS, RD

Published by permission of the Author, who holds the copyright

Kathrynne Holden, MS, RD, is the author of "Eat Well, Stay Well with Parkinson's Disease" and "Parkinson's Disease: Guidelines for Medical Nutrition Therapy." You may visit her website at:nutritionucanlivewith.com/

Beans and Parkinson's disease

In the past few years, I've been increasingly asked for information about fava beans as a source of levodopa. It's clear that many people are trying fava beans without fully understanding their properties. This article is designed to answer questions that have arisen about fava and Parkinson's disease (PD). I hope this may clear up some of the confusion about the bean, and encourage people to discuss its use with their doctors and dietitians.

This bean is a legume called "fava" (fah-vuh), faba, broad bean, and horse bean. Its botanical name is "Vicia faba." There are many species of faba; however, the "faba major"is the bean of concern here. It grows in a long pod, like a giant green bean, with large, flat seeds inside. It has been eaten for thousands of years throughout the world, especially in the Mediterranean region.

How are fava beans related to PD?

Fava beans contain levodopa, the same chemical in Sinemet, Madopar, Dopar, Larodopa, and other levodopa-containing medicines used to treat PD. In fact, the entire fava plant, including leaves, stems, pods, and immature beans, contains levodopa.

The amount of levodopa can vary greatly, depending on the species of fava, the area where it's grown, soil conditions, rainfall, and other factors. It appears that the young pod and the immature (green) beans inside the pod contain the greatest amount of levodopa, and the mature, or dried bean, the least. Three ounces (about 84 grams or ½ cup) of fresh green fava beans, or three ounces of canned green fava beans, drained, may contain about 50-100 mg of levodopa. If using the young pod as well as the beans, the amount of levodopa may be greater than that in the fresh beans alone.

What effect do fava beans have on PD?

Some small studies have shown that the levodopa in fava beans can help control the symptoms of PD, just as medications containing levodopa do. In fact, a few people report that the effects from fava last longer than the effects from medications. Some researchers believe fava beans may contain other substances besides levodopa that could be helpful.

However, although some people report good effects, others find no antiparkinson effect from fava beans at all; and still others report adverse effects, such as nausea and dyskinesia. Much more research needs to be done to determine how effective fava beans may be.

Are there any problems associated with eating fava beans?

Yes, there a number of concerns to be aware of:

Variable levodopa amounts. Because fava plants have varying amounts of levodopa, it's possible to get either too much or too little levodopa. Too little levodopa will not relieve PD symptoms; and too much levodopa can cause overmedication effects, such as dyskinesia - particularly if other PD medications are being used at the same time. Also, the levodopa can cause nausea in some people.

Allergies. Raw fava beans can produce an allergic reaction in some people, including discomfort, and occasionally, coma. Cooking may prevent allergic reactions.

Monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) use. Another consideration is the use of fava for people who take MAOIs. These include: isocarboxazid (Marplan); phenelzine (Nardil); tranylcypromine (Parnate); and selegiline (deprenyl, Carbex, Eldepryl).

MAOIs taken in combination with pressor agents (foods high in dopamine, tyramine and phenylethylamine), can bring about a dangerous, and sometimes fatal, increase in blood pressure. Levodopa in medications or in fava can convert to dopamine in the bloodstream. It should be noted that selegiline is a different type of MAOI (MAOI-type B), and in the amount normally used by people with PD (10 mg daily), it is not thought to pose a risk when used with dopamine. However, people using any MAOI should discuss foods containing pressor agents with their physicians and dietitians.

Favism (G6PD deficiency). Favism is an inherited disease in which a person lacks an enzyme called glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD). When these people eat fava beans, they develop a condition called hemolytic anemia. This anemia causes red blood cells to break apart and block blood vessels. When such blockage occurs in the kidneys, it can result in kidney failure and even death. Although favism is usually detected in childhood, adults can be affected as well.

G6PD deficiency is rare, occurring mostly among people of Mediterranean, African, and Southeast Asian descent, but others can be affected as well. Your physician can perform a blood test for G6PD to determine whether you are at risk. If you find you have inherited G6PD deficiency, your dietitian can help you locate other foods that may be of concern, and can help you plan safe and healthful menus. For more information on favism, see Resources at the end of this article.

[Don_oregon_duck]

My Dr prescribed the. Neuropro patch but I

[Don_oregon_duck]

My Dr prescribed the. Neuropro patch but I was too afraid of the side effects. I went to another Dr for a second opinion. He said at my age, 68, many have a greater risk of side effects with the Neuropro. He is putting me on Siniment. Yes, I changed drs. I am still taking Azlect and natural dopamine as well.

[cabbagecottage]

My husband has been on Sinemet for over ten years . And has since the beginning not see any real benefit and progressed. Not being scientifically minded had not reseasurxhed in the depth you have .

Yesterday the parkinsons nurse told me cos John was seventy at time of diagnosis although perfectly fit and well . Never as much a s a cold or headache they put him straight on the Sinemet not the meds they would have tried first for a younger person .!!!!

[Hikoi in reply to cabbagecottage]

This is usual cc as drugs get more difficult to mobilise with age and older people are more prone to side effects". Such a balancing act to get it right!

[laglag]

Please read Metacognito's first article about Fava Beans before trying them.

[bluemoon17]

I have tried the fava beans. I put them in my 6 bean salad. The only problem was I continued taking my meds (same dosage ) I was hallucinating. Ate too many beans.

[Skymom2008]

Neupro patch is the med with least side affects. That is probably all the doc thinks you need. Treatment is different for each individual. They might add another med if you need it. I tried fava beans but it didn't help me but might you. Trial and error. Good to try anyway is my thought. Good luck to you!

[karolmilk]

I tried only using beans and slowly went off meds and it was a disaster. I could barely walk, could not get out of bed and was incapable of functioning. Without the Lebo the dopamine can not get to brain so, I supplement beans with medication nut will never go without Carbide pa Levodopa ahain. I am a believer now.

[cshamb]

I stayed on the neuro patch only for2-3 yrs but did have to increase it. Now I just started sinement with a 2mg patch. Not crazy about doing that. I also started LDN 2 weeks ago so I am hoping I won't have to increase the sinement for a long time and the LDN works. I understand sinement has some side effects. Must get back to exercise most important. Hope this is helpful.

[racerCP in reply to cshamb]

What was your experience with the neuro patch? Did it address tremor, energy, flexibility? Side effects??

[cshamb in reply to racerCP]

It helped restless legs, anxiety but not tremor. Started on simemet and lowered the patch to 2 mg. I am taking LDN but don't know about that yet think it might help time will tell.

[Stanwillis245]

I love all beans but I haven't noticed any help. It's always the least favored thing of life but Exercise is the best fix for most PD patients, even a small amount of exercise will help. I have gone from thinking I was dying to being able to walk down the hall and most people don't realize I have PD. I do take sinemet and azilect, but the exercise makes me feel alive.

[Donzim in reply to Stanwillis245]

it's not beans, per se. it's fava beans which contain dopa.

[racerCP in reply to Donzim]

are you taking them as well?

[Donzim in reply to racerCP]

no. the amount of dopa is not standardized in favas. we did use Zandop, made from the mucuna pruriens bean which is standardized and has dopa in it. i will eat favas when they are in season but from a culinary standpoint, i have never seen why they are such a fav for Italians, or anyone else. pretty bland.

[KuriousKaty]

My partner is managing his PD with Mucuna, other supplements, diet and exercise. He started weaning off Sinemet and Mirapex in late 2014 and is completely off those meds.

It took a difficult year of experimentation to figure out the correct balance of Mucuna and supplements... however he definitely has better results now than on the synthetic meds. The only pharmaceutical drug he still takes is a sliver of carbidopa along with the Mucuna to help with uptake. It is a VERY small amount though -- only a quarter of a 25mg tablet with each dose -- but when we tried to remove it altogether it really did seem to make a difference. Hope that helps!

[laglag]

KuriousKaty, I know I'm curious & others will be also, what supplements, as well as dosages does your partner take?

Thanks!

[KuriousKaty in reply to laglag]

Hi laglag -- Jay takes a combination of Mucuna Pruriens and a number of supplements that inhibit metabolism of the LDopa in the body so more of it can cross to the brain. Some of those supplements include quercetin, rhodiola, resveratrol and egcg. The combination and dosages are rather complicated. I'm happy to provide whatever information you may find helpful but it may be easier if you just message me directly.

[rustjudge]

I am facing the same dilemma---I have had the patch for several weeks now but am yet to use it. I do take sinemet and azilect.

[racerCP in reply to rustjudge]

I have my prescription waiting at the drug store but tell me what is your specific dilemma and hesitancy if you know.

[powerfemale]

We all battle with to take medication or not. I held off for a year took Sinemet and Regasaline which gave me my life back. Only side effect a little diskensia not much. Am I scared about future medication, yes, but for now I have life with medication, no beans.

[racerCP]

Powerfemale, has your medication regimen addressed your symptoms of tremor, insomnia or overall outlook? I worry, apart from evaluating symptoms from the actual disease I will have to focus on evaluating symptoms of medication. What do you think? I admire your bravery and pluck.