NRT Vs CT (Allen Carr method)

[nsd_user663_4909]

I'm surprised to see so many people using nicotine replacement therapy. I don't think it's a very effective way of quitting. Many people are saying they have 'quit' smoking but they still have a nice steady stream of nicotine in their blood stream. I'm now on day 29 quitting cold turkey (with the help of Allen Carr) and I don't crave nicotine in the slightest. It only really takes a few days for the nicotine to leave your body, after that it's all mental. At this point in time the only time I even think about cigarettes is when I'm on here, and have about as much desire to smoke one as I do to throw myself down a pair of stairs.

[nsd_user663_4990]

Well that is fine for you snap, and good luck to you, but each to their own eh. But i will reaffirm something for you .. i have quit smoking.. i do not smoke cigarettes and will not do so again.

It matters not how you quit, what matters is that you do quit, and i know for a fact i can quit using the patches, and have no problem in their useage. Soon i drop down to the next mg dosage down and soon after the lowest and then after that.. nothing at all.. and you know ? It doesn't bother me in the slightest if right now a patch contains nicotine, i'm sure glad not to be taking in all them poisons that were in each and every cigarette thats for sure.

I would much rather i quit this way than the CT method from the word go, i tried CT once, and nearly lost my job over it, so thats a gamble i won't take twice. I was not reasonable with folk.. but that was years ago.

but whether you've quit using patches, champix, cold turkey or whichever way works.. in my eyes its the same thing.. quitting. Yes cold turkey is the hardest and fair play to you, but i will not go around posting that other folks quit methods are not quitting as it will just rub them up the wrong way, and right now this forum is for support, not the opposite.

[Maria2211 in reply to nsd_user663_4990]

I agree with you! I couldn't agree more. It can be discouraging when others say "well you haven't really quit smoking if you are still having nicotine" it can make the individual using NRT think "oh they're right, actually I will go back to smoking" when this is not the case. YOU HAVE QUIT SMOKING. It doesn't matter if someone is using patches or not from the minute they stop lighting up.. they've quit and they have began their journey.

[nsd_user663_4990]

Apologies Dave, discussion like this should really be in the day 1 forum

Welcome once again, please feel free to ignore the above few postings

[nsd_user663_4909]

Well that is fine for you snap, and good luck to you, but each to their own eh. But i will reaffirm something for you .. i have quit smoking.. i do not smoke cigarettes and will not do so again.

It matters not how you quit, what matters is that you do quit, and i know for a fact i can quit using the patches, and have no problem in their useage. Soon i drop down to the next mg dosage down and soon after the lowest and then after that.. nothing at all.. and you know ? It doesn't bother me in the slightest if right now a patch contains nicotine, i'm sure glad not to be taking in all them poisons that were in each and every cigarette thats for sure.

I would much rather i quit this way than the CT method from the word go, i tried CT once, and nearly lost my job over it, so thats a gamble i won't take twice. I was not reasonable with folk.. but that was years ago.

but whether you've quit using patches, champix, cold turkey or whichever way works.. in my eyes its the same thing.. quitting. Yes cold turkey is the hardest and fair play to you, but i will not go around posting that other folks quit methods are not quitting as it will just rub them up the wrong way, and right now this forum is for support, not the opposite.

You seem to think everything I post has a negative undertone. It doesn't. Of course the end goal is quitting and how you get there is irrelevant, but from my experience cold turkey is easier. My brother has been 'cutting down' for the past 10 years or so with patches etc. He just keeps going back to smoking because he never cuts the nicotine level down to nothing, with cutting down all you're doing is prolonging the agong. The point of my post that was in my opinion, despite popular belief, cold turkey is the easiest way to quit.

i'm sure glad not to be taking in all them poisons that were in each and every cigarette thats for sure.

The nicotine from patches is also a poison. Potentially the most lethal and the very thing that kept you smoking.

Just to add, some people stay on these patches for a very long time. To me it's not quitting until you've cut the supply of nicotine from your body. Until then it's just shifting the dose from one method of administration to another.

[nsd_user663_4990]

I know this, but so far, you seem to be quoting allen carr's method and negating other methods as false in particular, nicotine patches...or NRT as you put it, but lets face it both posters before yours use patches, so we know what you meant.

Many people are saying they have 'quit' smoking but they still have a nice steady stream of nicotine in their blood stream.

^^ This I feel is unnecessary^^, and you are stating anyone using patches, has not quit smoking?. Well hello? haven't i smoked a cigarette in the last 28/29 days? No. So then i've quit smoking. What i have never in any single post that i've made have said, is that i've quit nicotine.. that i'm controlling over time and in a manner that works for me.

Its interesting you've mentioned your brother, not cutting nicotine down to nothing, because this is where how i'm doing it differs. I don't use the patches as supplement, i use it in the manner in which it was designed. In fact, my plan is not to go the full prescribed step 1 course in weeks, in fact as soon as i'm out of the step 1 patches i am going down to the step 2 patch, then step 3 very very soon after and then after that.. nothing.

From the way you've described things, it looks like your brother has never cut down the strengths and never succeeded in lowering the dose gradually and then cutting them out altogether as soon as the comfort level is reached on the lowest mg dosage? Now if he's been taking 10 years to cut down with patches? then that is not following 'the' plan, thats following his plan, and 10 years means 'gee, it doesn't work his way' not that patches do not work.

Well i've quit before using these patches, and have every faith the method, the only stupid fall that occurred for me was what any ex-smoker can fall with .. a single cigar at christmas time. 8 months i'd been quit.. and 1 cigar to start it again. My plan is to be through and done with the actual patches in 8 weeks maximum.. no longer. Less if i can.. not 10 years... not 1 year.. 8 weeks or less. (more likely less if i can, but just as we are all individual, it will be in tune with me and when i'm able to, and never a drawn out process)

Anyway, can i remind you that this is the day 1 section of the forum where new folk arrive (and some folk return for another shot at this), and that however you meant your post to sound there, it didnt even bother to say "Welcome", yes it had a negative undertone, perhaps not all of it, but at no point i note did you say 'Hi and welcome to the forum', you took his method, negated it (and mine as i also use patches), and promoted your own (aka the allen carr method).

I would love to continue this topic of conversation, but i really don't think 'day 1' is the best place.. do you? Please DO start a thread in another forum point me at it, and i'll continue there. I should also remind you that i've read the allen carr book, twice.. so i am aware of the method, the dispellation of the brainwashing, and the route forward he shows the reader. I have not stepped into this quitting thing ill informed.

[nsd_user663_4909]

I know this, but so far, you seem to be quoting allen carr's method and negating other methods as false in particular, nicotine patches...or NRT as you put it, but lets face it both posters before yours use patches, so we know what you meant.

I was not attempting to undermine their attempt at quitting, it was voicing my genuine surprise at how common NRT is being used and advocated. It's important to me to voice the other methods, such as cold turkey which people seem to be discouraged from trying.

^^ This I feel is unnecessary^^, and you are stating anyone using patches, has not quit smoking?. Well hello? haven't i smoked a cigarette in the last 28/29 days? No. So then i've quit smoking. What i have never in any single post that i've made have said, is that i've quit nicotine.. that i'm controlling over time and in a manner that works for me.

The sooner you get it into your head that I don't care what you think is necessary or not the better. You may have quit the act of smoking, but physiologically speaking you haven't broken the drug addiction. You've just changed the method of administration.

What you're claiming is tantamount to the heroin addict that claims he's kicked the drug because he is on the methadone programme, which works under similar principals to NRT. The theory is that gradually reduce the dosage and 'ween' yourself from the methadone. I have worked part time in a pharmacy for the past 6 years and out of the thousands of heroin addicts that have walked through the door, one kicked heroin _one_.

This is the nature of lowering dosages. The addict still administers the very same chemicals, the same reactions in the brain take place. Despite being in lower doses the level of addiction remains the same, psychologically and physically. This is why it is so ineffective.

Its interesting you've mentioned your brother, not cutting nicotine down to nothing, because this is where how i'm doing it differs. I don't use the patches as supplement, i use it in the manner in which it was designed. In fact, my plan is not to go the full prescribed step 1 course in weeks, in fact as soon as i'm out of the step 1 patches i am going down to the step 2 patch, then step 3 very very soon after and then after that.. nothing.

From the way you've described things, it looks like your brother has never cut down the strengths and never succeeded in lowering the dose gradually and then cutting them out altogether as soon as the comfort level is reached on the lowest mg dosage? Now if he's been taking 10 years to cut down with patches? then that is not following 'the' plan, thats following his plan, and 10 years means 'gee, it doesn't work his way' not that patches do not work.

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. Completely wild assumptions about a person you know very little about. Somehow you managed to completely miss my point and take it personally. Makes me question if you really do have the understanding of how drugs work that you claim to.

Well i've quit before using these patches, and have every faith the method, the only stupid fall that occurred for me was what any ex-smoker can fall with .. a single cigar at christmas time. 8 months i'd been quit.. and 1 cigar to start it again. My plan is to be through and done with the actual patches in 8 weeks maximum.. no longer. Less if i can.. not 10 years... not 1 year.. 8 weeks or less. (more likely less if i can, but just as we are all individual, it will be in tune with me and when i'm able to, and never a drawn out process)

Well, you're just kinda validating my point here, you take my point and apply it to you, again. For many people quitting smoking can be a much quicker process. 8 weeks is so drawn out and unnecessary for many people.

Anyway, can i remind you that this is the day 1 section of the forum where new folk arrive (and some folk return for another shot at this), and that however you meant your post to sound there, it didnt even bother to say "Welcome", yes it had a negative undertone, perhaps not all of it, but at no point i note did you say 'Hi and welcome to the forum', you took his method, negated it (and mine as i also use patches), and promoted your own (aka the allen carr method).

I would love to continue this topic of conversation, but i really don't think 'day 1' is the best place.. do you? Please DO start a thread in another forum point me at it, and i'll continue there. I should also remind you that i've read the allen carr book, twice.. so i am aware of the method, the dispellation of the brainwashing, and the route forward he shows the reader. I have not stepped into this quitting thing ill informed.

Right, so you've read Allen Carrs book twice. Great. However, only have a very vague idea of the principles, or you wouldn't have considered NRT. Maybe you didn't read it closely enough.

My post had no negative undertone. I guess I can say that in confidence since y'know, I wrote it? Next time I'll make sure I copy and paste something generic rather than write a genuine opinion. That's probably more appropriate in your eyes.

You're really are following me around and trying to dispute everything I write with a condescending tone. 'I should remind you', 'Can I remind you'. As for whether this belongs in day one, I think it does. NRT is just another way for people to waste their money, albeit a better one - but it's not the be all and end all. New quitters need not be scared to give cold turkey a try.

One things for sure though, this discussion in Day 1 is definitely more relevant than a discussion about baking cakes.

[nsd_user663_4625]

I couldn't agree more

but whether you've quit using patches, champix, cold turkey or whichever way works.. in my eyes its the same thing.. quitting. Yes cold turkey is the hardest and fair play to you, but i will not go around posting that other folks quit methods are not quitting as it will just rub them up the wrong way, and right now this forum is for support, not the opposite.

Thanks for that Jase The kind of post you replied to is the kind that is beginning to really wind me up now on here, keep feeling like leaving but then think nah, just ignore them LOL xxx

[nsd_user663_3784]

NRT Vs CT (Allen Carr method)

Moved some posts from this Welcome back thread, as it seemed a better place to carry on the discussion.

[nsd_user663_4990]

Thanks Moderator 3. You are so like batman, lurking.. but always watching. Gotham city is safe once more

I appreciate you moving the posts because i was saddened to see a day 1 thread get hijacked. I don't mind the discussion topic, its just the way it was 'started' that was out of order imho.

[nsd_user663_3784]

I appreciate you moving the posts because i was saddened to see a day 1 thread get hijacked. I don't mind the discussion topic, its just the way it was 'started' that was out of order imho.

I would prefer to say that the thread became diverted rather than hijacked, it happens sometimes.

If ever people would like to suggest a thread be moved or split, duplicates deleted or title changed then the report function can be used. Reporting is not restricted to circumstances where you feel people have behaved badly, it can also be to ask for assistance.

[nsd_user663_2190]

Well... I have escaped the nicotine trap with the aid of patches. So.. what works for one person doesn't necesarily work for another. Everyone has their own experiences Snap and we could all argue about it till we're blue in the face. I tried many times using the Allen Carr method (book) and found that even though he says it doesn't require willpower I didn't last long. I just couldn't quit cold turkey. Due to me reading Allen Carr so much I was reluctant to try NRT because of what he says about it. Whyquit.com is also really down on NRT which is a shame because it puts people off. By then I was still smoking and had upped my intake due to stress so I'd had enough and went to the chemist who recommended the patches, I slapped one on and here I am off the patches and not wanting to smoke and have just started my third month. It doesn't matter how you quit, only that you quit and don't let anyone else tell you different

[nsd_user663_3728]

Snap

I really think it is time for you to drop this now

We all know your views which is fine but you are upsetting to many people with this attitude you have

I mean that you must be right all the time it doesn't work that way what may be right for you doesn't mean everyone else is wrong

We had someone else on here not so long ago who did exactly as you're doing now he ended up getting himself Banned from the forum altogether

All you do is put negative posts on here and deride any method but your own

It doesn't matter what anyone uses as an aid NRT Zyban Champix whatever all that matters is they stop and if weaning off nicotine slowly works for people that is what matters not how they do it what matters is that they quit and stay quit

I used champix and it worked and before you start on that it does not I repeat NOT contain any nicotine at all

I personally don't care what people use to help them in the slightest what I care about is this way you have off always trying to put others down for what they use

Marg

[nsd_user663_4990]

Before i write this reply, I'll state that i'm not angry while writing this post, nor am I upset, i wasn't yesterday either, however that said I felt that your post in the day 1 forum was out of order, and had sunk to a new low. the only thing i was unhappy with yesterday was the fact that this discussion was in the day 1 forum tacked on the end of a post made by a chap who had returned to the forum and was having another go at quitting. I am glad it has now been split and moved to this forum.

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. Completely wild assumptions about a person you know very little about.

This is precisely what you do to others though. Honestly snap, i have no idea what your purpose is when you post on these forums? It sounds to me like chapter and verse Allen Carr has done everything for you already, and now the only reason you seem to be cruising these forums is to make tongue in cheek comments at just about anything and anyone you actually think you can wind up.

You may aswell start running Easy-Way seminars yourself as you really do seem to be just the right type of person to slap your hand on his book and tell others that it works because it has for you obviously.

Now when you said this:

My brother has been 'cutting down' for the past 10 years or so with patches etc. He just keeps going back to smoking because he never cuts the nicotine level down to nothing

Yes it did give me enough of an insight into why you see patches don't work, because you've quoted your brother as a case study it seems, and so i posted in reply to that, you opened the dialogue with an example, i replied in kind with an example from my perspective. You do not stop wearing shoes because one person found them uncomfortable.

If your brother never cut his intake down to 0 in ten years, then he definitely didn't follow the plan, and he is a very poor example to use when you compare this to the many people who now do not smoke thanks to using the NRT patch method. I have 2 friends, close friends who have quit smoking on patches, the same ones i'm using as it happens, and 1 has been quit for over 3 years and never looked back, the 2nd has been quit for 2 years and a bit.. and he is a great example for me. You however don't have anything positive to say on patches due to your brother going 10 years using them and never once actually following the plan. The problem was not the patches nor the method there.. he simply didn't lower the dosage as they were prescribed and then stop wearing them completely. otherwise he would have got to using no nicotine.. and he would have quit.

Patches do not work for everybody, but i can definitely say from my own experience of them that they do work for me, my only slip up in life while attempting to quit has been to make the stupid mistake of thinking 1 cigar at christmas after 8 months quit wouldn't harm.. when i saw that it did and what i ended up smoking after that.. i realised too late that 1 smoke however its justified was the worst thing an ex-smoker who had been quit for 8 months could have done. I will not make that same mistake twice, and heck you could put a cigar in my hand this christmas, and i would politely hand it you back with a very firm 'no thank you, i do not smoke'

The time i quit before that was 6 months, and you know? At that time, I faced 2 major upsets which absolutely wiped me out.. moving house and some horrible stresses due to things not going right and a death of a last remaining grandparent who was my pillar of strength for many years and whom i saw more as a 2nd father than i did as just a grandparent.. life deals folk blows, and i'm not going to justify the going back to smoking as being the right move.. it just happened, and yes i spent much time regretting it thereafter.. and thats why i'm here, quit smoking now and not still smoking at 30 days in.

However, i will end this post and say this, i've now not been smoking for 30 days, i have been quit smoking for 30 days, and am following the NRT plan carefully. Regardless of what you think about NRT, or the term 'quit smoking' you will not change how i feel about my achievement thusfar. I am fairly done on this topic now, i wish you well with the Allen Carr method but I urge you to find some respect if at all possible for other forum users here and at least acknowledge that while their methods are not the one you are using, they are still working for them.

Good luck with your quit

[nsd_user663_4909]

Snap

I really think it is time for you to drop this now

We all know your views which is fine but you are upsetting to many people with this attitude you have

What does that even mean? I'm upsetting people? Who? The very people who aggressively attack any post I make? That's quite ironic. Maybe they shouldn't dish it out if they can't take it. Perhaps I should write out a few generic replies void of any personalisation (and indeed punctuation;)) for new members and copy and paste them - rather than put my own opinion across.

I mean that you must be right all the time it doesn't work that way what may be right for you doesn't mean everyone else is wrong

Brilliant observation 'Captain Obvious'. I didn't every state cold turkey was the ONLY way of quitting, I said it was the easiest. Unless you want to drug up your mind with Champix.

We had someone else on here not so long ago who did exactly as you're doing now he ended up getting himself Banned from the forum altogether

I don't care. If they ban me, so be it. If I'm not allowed to speak my mind then I'd rather not be a member of the forum anyway. You folk just use this as your little playground and if anyone disagrees with you, you run to the admins. When I first witnessed this I was completely baffled, conflicting opinions are healthy and they are what make a forum interesting and informative.

If you guys didn't follow me about having a go at anything I post then you wouldn't get into a discussion with me and end up 'upset' because I defend my beliefs.

All you do is put negative posts on here and deride any method but your own

Well, baring in mind that I have less than 30 posts it would be pretty difficult to pidgeonhole my posting style let anyone brand it 'deriding methods other than CT'. Most of my posts were in my own thread and I made a few others defending Jim when you all jumped on the bandwagon, ganging up on him.

All you do is repeat peoples posts and add in a gesture that you think is appropriate, along with your signature copy and paste welcome. So you can hardly complain.

It doesn't matter what anyone uses as an aid NRT Zyban Champix whatever all that matters is they stop and if weaning off nicotine slowly works for people that is what matters not how they do it what matters is that they quit and stay quit

I used champix and it worked and before you start on that it does not I repeat NOT contain any nicotine at all

What is with all your wild assumptions? First of all, I never _once_ said that quitting smoking via NRT was worse than continuing smoking. It's insulting that people keep pointing that completely obvious fact out. The point that I originally made is that it's not the easiest way. People on this board and in society in general seem to have the opinion that quitting cold turkey is some impossible feat. When the reality is very much brighter.

I am well aware of what Champix is and what it contains, I never mentioned it. It's quite interesting that you should enlighten me that champix doesn't contain nicotine, surely with your vast understanding on biochemistry you'd understand that if it DID contain nicotine (or any of its derivatives for that fact), you would die after you took it?

I certainly agree that Champix is a far more effective way to quit smoking than NRT. However, I don't think people should make the decision to take such an extreme drug lightly and should only use it as a last resort. It's not as simple as your doctors want you to believe. Varenicline (the active ingredient) is a partial agonist. Which basically means it almost 'competes' with nicotine and binds to the same receptor that triggers dopamine when a dose of nicotine is received. Essentially what this does is block off the ability for cigarettes to stimulate your mesolimbic dopamine system.

This is all very well and good, the principles are solid - but if you did basic biology in school you'll know how important dopamine (as well as acetylcholine) levels are. I personally would not want anything tampering with the dopamine system in my brain for twelve weeks. If it works, great. However, dopamine control and release is so crucial for a real existence in this world. If dopamine levels in the brain are compromised or restricted this can result in people becoming unable to receive any pleasure _at all_, through food, exercise, sex, jokes. Nothing. I think it's no coincidence that there are many reports of suicidal thoughts and tendencies during champix use.

On top of this the lifelong risk of this drug is undocumented and completely impossible to predict. It's not a risk I'd take. All the safety tests in the world can't predict the long terms effects of such a complex inorganic compound on our bodies.

I reiterate that I do believe champix is a better method of quitting than NRT and is way more successful. I just think people need to consider the risks more carefully. I also worry that unsuccessful attempts will result in multiple stints that users are ingesting champix. I wouldn't let any of my friends or family take it, it's just not worth the risk. I wouldn't even recommend it to a stranger, only as an absolute last resort.

I personally don't care what people use to help them in the slightest what I care about is this way you have off always trying to put others down for what they use

Marg

Well that's nice of you, but I do care. I care about peoples health. If people really put their mind to it, have the courage, support and belief in themselves anyone can quit cold turkey. Without any mind altering chemicals or poisons.

[nsd_user663_4990]

Take a good look around these forums, margareth has done more for folks well being than the filth and preaching your vile replies here today ever will. Marg has had more replies of thanks than your narrow minded preachings ever will.

you've said it yourself, you don't care if you get banned, and you are 100% committed to upsetting folk without a care in the world for anybody but yourself.

Well carry on by all means on your power trip if you must, but you are serving no purpose other than your own. When you start actually really caring.. and i mean truly caring, it will do you good, but i impeach you to have more respect for others because while you continue to post like you are at the moment you lose the respect of others at a rapid rate of which you will never recover. Not that you care at this moment as that has been made wholly evident in your post and its wording.

[nsd_user663_4909]

Take a good look around these forums, margareth has done more for folks well being than the filth and preaching your vile replies here today ever will. Marg has had more replies of thanks than your narrow minded preachings ever will.

you've said it yourself, you don't care if you get banned, and you are 100% committed to upsetting folk without a care in the world for anybody but yourself.

Now you're just embarrassing yourself. What vile and filthy about my posts? Nothing. I said I don't care if I get banned for speaking my mind, not that I am attempting to get banned. There's a glaringly obvious difference. That last post was basically talking science. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. I'm no more harsh than you guys are to me but I'm not sitting here crying about it. So I disagree with two people whom I have never met on an internet forum, from which you deduce that I don't care about anyone but myself - and here you are claiming that you don't make assumptions. :rolleyes:

Well carry on by all means on your power trip if you must, but you are serving no purpose other than your own.

That's ironic, power trip? The term power trip suggests that someone in a position of power is taking advantage of it. However, I am not in a position of power on this forum, so that statement makes no sense whatsoever. Arguably you're the one on the power trip, being in a position with a group of friends that will back you up (regardless of whether or not your posts are rational) alongside the fact you suggest that I have no purpose to be on these forums.

When you start actually really caring.. and i mean truly caring, it will do you good, but i impeach you to have more respect for others because while you continue to post like you are at the moment you lose the respect of others at a rapid rate of which you will never recover. Not that you care at this moment as that has been made wholly evident in your post and its wording.

My level of compassion for _everyone_ can not be measured due to the fact that I don't care about you. You're a particularly self absorbed person, respect is earned and you have done absolutely nothing to deserve mine. I'm not at all worried if I lose respect with other members because it doesn't even come close to the respect I will lose for myself if I don't stand up for myself and back-up what I believe in. Whether you like it or not.

[nsd_user663_3784]

The No Smoking Day Stop Smoking Forum is aimed at supporting people who are trying to stop smoking or who have kicked the habit and want to stay quit. It is intended to provide a warm, friendly and supportive atmosphere for the stop smoking community.

All members should be behave in a respectful way towards each other and avoid personal attacks or name calling. Users are entitled to their views and also entitled to be supported in their chosen method of quit, so if you wish to carry this discussion on, I would ask for it to be done in a more civil manner. If it carries on in this vein then the thread will be locked.

[nsd_user663_4990]

I have nothing further to say to you that i've not said already. I fully expected a reply such as this, and that's that.

Only words i have left for this thread is...

Pot, Kettle and black.

@ Moderator 3: I have no wish to continue the conversation with 'snap', i apologise if anything i've written is in breach of forum rules, as i have attempted to defend other forum users. I will not be replying again in this thread, or to any more of snaps postings as i feel that i've said enough.

[nsd_user663_4909]

I have nothing further to say to you that i've not said already. I fully expected a reply such as this, and that's that.

Only words i have left for this thread is...

Pot, Kettle and black.

You have nothing to say, yet you keep posting. So you obviously _do_ have something left to say. Good god, you're just trying to get the last word, whether you make sense or just make an arbitrary remark trying to make yourself perceived as superior. Epic fail.

[nsd_user663_3784]

Enough - Thread Closed