THE NHS the Grim Reaper ? An Open e - mail to the BBC & NHS re : NO TESTING for certain conditions e.g: prostrate cancer , backs etc

I am horrified that you appear to be colluding with the NHS who thinks health is an exact science allowing Drs, especially in A&E , to ignore symptoms not researching , with Dr Dawn, in Gloucestershire , who has probably not taken a hippocratic oath too , to collude .Have you not heard of sepsis ignore the symptoms and you cause fatalities or amputations. Lets hope it is not your family.

I n my case at least 20 visits to A& E & weekly to GPs with severe spasticity spasms & excruciating pain with specialists not referring to NHS to worried about their own funding .Wheres the economy , intelligence & sense .It must be the CCG bullying the single, elderly & disabled - vulnerable targets.

I n the end this fool hardy direction & NO REFERRAL POLICY ignore the chronic conditions till become too expensive caused MI cardiac arrest after weekly visits following up traumatic symptoms.

In the end did my own research as Drs now incompetent [ doing as directed] paid for a very expensive MRI to prevent from becoming further disabled as already had had cardiac failure symptoms affecting function ignored .

I live on my own why are you making life so difficult why don't you think and dig deeper rather than reduce the life span of many single persons over 50.Why don't you give balanced reports & not give vent to Drs with a vested interested not researching .This is very irresponsible.

A potential bed blocker,

Julie Shrive [ Miss - 70 yrs]

This foolhardy policy has caused me to not get pulmonary hypertension diagnosed for 13 yrs . My late father, a pharmacist, had another 30 yrs of life tackling prostrate cancer early by going initially private ?What is going on?

20 Replies

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  • I think you are taking a very personal approach to a national (international problem) here. The evidence shows that there is over-investigation of problems such as low back pain with unsuitable tests such as plain x-ray for low back pain. The evidence also shows that the pathophysiology of conditions presenting as low back pain is multi-factorial and actual physical problems detectable by x-ray are in the minority of reasons for it. The report isn't saying dont investigate full stop but rather that we should be more discriminative in choice of investigation and bow less to indiscriminate patient demand for investigations. explaining to a patient that an x-ray won't reveal the problem takes 20-30 mins, writing a form for an x-ray to see the 50 other patients waiting to be seen takes 10 mins. Most doctors have on average 7-8 mins to see, examine, treat or refer (including for investigations) a patient.

  • Are you saying this is an ethical way to progress as had steroid injections as a result that have rectified matters so far but as it involves uti infection being managed appropriately oh dear the nurses are doing it when results masked Some people think they know best. Surely the key is research of symptons on all levels not adopt a questionable policy to cause health damage .

  • your sentence structure means i can't actually understand the point you are trying to make? is it that you had low back pain and had to have steroid injections because it was 'mis-managed'? what is the significance of appropriate management of UTI? are you saying nurses can't?

  • Sorry, most Doctors have not got a clue regarding back pain. It is a difficult area, but the reality is they just don't give a damn.

  • Thats why x rays are needed. Are they going to create more disability than research?When sepsis and amputation could be involved why restrict unless can offer no assistance ?

  • If it had been left to NHS I could have been permanently disabled as involved spinal spasticity spasms & the mismanagement of pulmonary hypertension heart failure [ dysponea] , and ,negligence of disability spina bifida occult utis acute 3 weekly and severe breathlessness.If general public rushed to my assistance why didn't they? Since didn't want to become housebound or in a care home I paid over £500 for a private MRI who suggested I needed transferring to an NHS tertiary hospital for investigation. Of course this was refused everyone so terrified of their funding . You even tried to shut down the one clinic trying to address utis with antibiotics ??!! It was reopened by the patients,students and High Court.

    Cutting on cuts doesn't make sense as I am the one targeted .So had the injections but I will cost more in the long run than sorting it out initially when disability was found in 1969 before Thatcher's thoughtless policies rather than causing such a waste of time and funding using dodgy statistics .

    Do Nurses understand the interaction and side effects of medication are they trained to research as they could be masking the results .Many Drs don't know this ? Why do Nurses turn those with chronic conditions which have become acute from Minor Injuries Units ?It would be admin on remits next if you had your way??

  • me??? I (had my way)?? I'm not suggesting any of those things but you should appreciate that the NHS and individual professionals working in it do not have an interest in denying genuine need.

    The NHS as it operates presently with demanding consumerist ill-informed patients cannot continue as it is. Rationing or sensical (evidence based) restriction of use of services (including investigations) has to occur otherwise there will be NO NHS. You have a personally evidenced basis for your inflammatory statements but this does not grant you the education you need to understand the wider health system, patients with similar yet different complaints or combinations of complaints such as yours or to comment about decisions to close or not close facilities. Medical school teaches about weighing and appreciation of evidence to enable clinicians to make informed and economical decisions with patient interests in mind.

    Continuity and acute on chronic conditions are best handled by those professionals who have access to your records and can afford you continuity of care. There is a raft of evidence to this. Your argument is full of contradictory statements which make it hard to distinguish a plausible case so I can't really understand the argument you are trying to make.

    The end point is: funding is limited by the government so if you want to blame someone i'd suggest Jeremy Hunt. Limited funding means that access to investigations and treatment; that aren't on the balance of evidence and probability likely to impact either outcome, illness course (morbidity or mortality); should be restricted not only to reduce future harm to patients (i.e. from radiation of a spinal x-ray), but also to reduce cost to the system. The fact that your condition seemingly responded to steroid injections would also make it pretty likely that a plan x-ray would not have revealed the cause of your pain (spina biffida occulta is found incidentally on a number of x-rays but for the majority of patients has no diagnostic or symptomatic implication). So you would have had a relatively high dose of radiation without diagnostic benefit, which increases your chances of cancer in future. Even with 'diagnosis' of your condition you are only having symptomatic treatment so no investigation or referral would have been likely to change the end outcome, particularly given your combination of morbidities. You have just created an expensive circular loop through multiple services to achieve an outcome you would have come to with GP management.

  • Cut out stupid remedial mistakes and the NHS will have more money. Get working people back to work rather than get them to lose their employment and there will be more money. Become more efficient, don't provide unnecessary drugs and you don't need more money. The NHS is a cash cow. Time for it to end.

  • GPs non specialists ,In 10 min appts ? The former ones have now told me to leave saying don't deal with the cardio- pulmonary allowing local A& E to close When asked for plan of action a la NHS Constitution seeing pulmonary hypertension not found for 14 yrs when all your tests said OK they told me to leave adter a tirade similar to the above . Are you saying that I do not have genuine need ?You are so patronising what makes you think you know more than I .I have had the cardiac arrest dying 3x at time after you stopped referrals for classic heart failure symptons.It is I who have a recent MA 2003 round this do you ? You are regurgitating untruthful facts from questionable books on spina bifida occulta showing your ignorance in fact spina bifida was found when specialists could research fairly and system much more ethical before Thatcher .Otherwise why did Royal Free give me the Research Notes back .Are they not legal documents ?The sooner J Corbyn, my local MP when in London, gets in the better he was given all the problems then .Those younger coming up know better.

  • Wow you seem a very angry individual. You should appreciate you have a very narrow self-centric outlook and very little insight into systems or healthcare economics. At an individual level i can just about extrapolate to see where your arguments come from but the UK is full of such individuals who all have themselves as a priority, this drain on the system isn't equitable or proportionate. You have completely lost perspective to understand anything other than your own health concerns with a very narrow and limited frame of reference.

  • It is this nasty ,unintelligent attitude that worries me . Lets hope your family don't suffer chronic conditions watch your attitude change then .I suspect it is people like you who are formulating these discriminatory policies causing lives to be shorter .

  • My family do suffer chronic conditions but have reasonable expectations of what is possible without an unlimited budget and do not only focus on themselves. They are also willing to work in partnership with their health providers to understand what they can do themselves without costing more to the NHS unnecessary i.e. Taking responsibility for their own health and not expecting a health provider to be omnipotent. If you are such an expert and so knowledgable I am failing to understand how you are failing to advocate for yourself better. Maybe trying to work with your providers as opposed to throwing stones or aspersions about their abilities or inabilities to be an expert in you would be a better approach. I hope you get the help you need to tackle your conditions and attitude.

  • I sympathise. I no longer speak with my GP. The mental health units best advice was "make another complaint" rather than them speak to my consultant. I am unilaterally reducing my mess. I am actively trying to catch HIV, I am going to start smoking again and I am hoping for another heart attack (hopefully fatal), why? Because I see more waiting and waiting and no treatment. I have lost faith in the medical profession (not that you can call it that) and have no future. I was a lawyer, but that career is down the pan. I just want to go to sleep and not wake up.

  • The system makes you like that. I have been waiting for effective treatment on a slipped disc for nearly 3 years. Not much fun.

  • in general nhs no longer give surgery. cutting costs. i required two types of ent surgery and was diagnosd by a ent specialist. i was sent on to see the actual person that was more qualified (aparantley on paper) who took me as a first time visit referal direct from gp and not a second specialist visit referaed by the first ent specialist. second ent specialist originally claimed there was no damage at all as thought there was no original diagnoses ( cant even read my record to see the original diagnoses) the second specialist then changed there diagnoses to agree with first specialist after i pointed out the letter i had and the damage and the two surgeries reuired. i was refused all suregry as did not meet criteria. i am 48 unemployed disabled will never work again. so not worth really saving my life. so no surgery and i ended up taking a micro stroke and loss of oxygen supply to full right hand side of body. still have episodes of loss of right side and cant sleep at all as keep stop breathing as damage so bad cant breath in without nasal passage collapsing. thats just one nhs issue. another and one which has destroyed my entire life is. i had some sores and reddening ok skin 2.5years ago. repeadedly asked gp for assistance and even distric nurses. distric nurses said not there problem see your gp. gps said originally not there problem see a nurse. i been waiting to go through specialist reasignment surgery. but now i can not. my health has declined rappidly in the 2.5 years to a state that i am falling unconcious all the time due to lack of oxygen , i cant sleep as sores now cover every part of my body. they do not heal. ones from last year and year before. some still sores , some now a mass of sores. others BLACK CIRCLES AND HOLES IN SKIN DOWN ALL THE SKIN LAYERS TO THE FLESH UNDERNEATH. DEAD BLACK SKIN NECROIC SKIN. SKIN THAT IS COMPLETLY DEAD. I AM IN PAIN 24/7 BECAUSE OF THIS AND DAMAGE DONE MEANS I CAN NOT GET THE SURGERY I BEEN PLANNING FOR MANY YEARS. MOST TIME I CALL ON PHONE TO GET A GP CALL. IF MY GP NOT THERE WORKING AT A DIFFERENT SURGERY , OTHER GPS WILL NOT HELP AT ALL. they always say call back speak to own gp. even when my gp waS ON HOLIDAY FOR TWO WEEKS. I GOT NO MEDICAL HELP AT ALL. this is medical neglic and it is all through the nhs system. i had abnormal white blood cells, started one type abnormal then two types abnormal , red blood cell abnormal indicatingtoo many red blood cells , not enough oxygen , white blood cells indicate sever infection but also indicate cancer and i am a high cancer risk because of medication i trake and family history. i can not afford private. i know that if i keep stop breathing when unconcious ad i spend most of day unconcious but keey waking every hour and then ten minutes later or less unconcious again. so a lot of time unconcious and not breathing = high risk of death. not being dramatic , it is a fact and my body is in constnt state of infection and sores all over body which could of been prevented if gp and nurses did ther job instead of saving money. i am transexual and i have had to stop and can not get surgery needed now. this was a life long goal and many years preparing for it. but this last 2.5 years has made sure i will never be able to get this surgery. so deprestion will be high. life destrpoyed by nhs. if i die it will be a blessing as life is already destroyed and i run risk of deathg due to lack of oxygen , brain damage. so death would be a gift for me as i cant be who i should be and in pain all the tme , infections and all that goes with it , migraion headaches , hot sweating , burning up , feel like have flu for last 2.5 years. legs and feet all damaged swelling due to other organ issues. but not once did a gp contact me about all these abnormal test, app. nine abnormal blood test in last two years. only one face to face visit at home as housebound , only because local mp pushed them and formal complaint. but once you make a complaint you get labeled and that just makes it even worse. i could not even get medication from the surgery even thou it was standard treatment from london clinic and been on it several years. they did not want to prescribe it as very expensive. so yes the nhs is a complet waste of money as they just ignopre important test results. they do not want to do homevisits , they do not want to give expensive surgery , they do not want to prescribe medication thats expensive.

    just look at all the complaints about nhs and you will see they are targetting certain groups even more and denying treatment. if your not capablke of work , young enough to work many years - your not a benefit to society and not worth spending nhs money on , if your in a minority group like me transgender then you also get hit hard by nhs refusals and ignored by gp and it is wide spread this.

    there are thousands of complaints on the internet , no point complaining to nhs as they always find in there own favour. ent i complained , they ignored the evidence that showed damage , they refused me a second opinion , they say i did not meet critera for surgery but would not say what it is. i checked and i meet criteria as physical trauma caused damage and there is also mental trauma from it and it is life thertening and can cause several life compolications before final death.

    anyone that gaves praise to nhs and has a go at someone posting on here. which is for such problems. theymust be nhs or have nhs friends and family or connected someaway to the nhs. as everyone knows the nhs is a joke.

    just look at all the complaints. that never even get looked into.

  • There is an expectation that the NHS will 'be there' for us, when we need it. A desire to be treated with care and interest. The reality is that the NHS is buckling under the strain, caused by many factors and as a result, patients expectations are generally not met resulting in dissatisfaction and disappointment.

    The UK population is increasing significantly year on year, for reasons such as people are living longer, but not necessarily healthier lives and increased immigration also plays a factor.

    Lifestyle choices are playing a major factor in the UK population generally becoming less healthy resulting in a significant increase in seeking medical attention and in particular, for preventable diseases.

    Equally, the NHS operates in an inefficient and ineffective way. Its disjointed and bureaucratic approach to the way it operates, results in expensive errors and laborious irrelevant processes and wasted funding.

    If we are to see the days again, where GPs have the time to be interested in their patients, where wait times are acceptable and the care patients received is first class, then we all have a part to play.

    We individually have to take responsibility for our health and if we don't, we accept that this contributes to the burden on the NHS and the service we receive will be impacted.

    The NHS needs to restructure itself. To operate as a private organisation would. To look at its failings and address them head on. The tax payer is their shareholder and they should be answerable to their shareholders, as any other corporation, would be.

    Until we all accept and take responsibility in making the NHS successful, we cannot assign blame or fault, without first looking at how we individually contribute to the problem.

  • It wouldn't take much to contribute some more tax rather than have this discrimination . The number of Drs blatantly discriminating & bullying blaming you for its inadequacies and their lack of knowledge is unbelievable .How they are able to qualify I do not know . I do know that I don't go to the GP to be bullied and blamed & given the run around.Yet they are getting away with blue murder aided by the GMC , Ombudsmen & Government burying their heads in the sand .

  • The fact your name when googled comes up with the fact you've been banned from seeking freedom of information requests and complaints about just about every government agency for bullying, victimisation and discrimination says a lot about your state of mind. Perhaps some time away from your keyboard, warrior, might do you good.

  • That the gentleman has been banned from seeking FOI requests just might well be an example, precisely, of said bullying, victimisation and discrimination...and I am well aware from personal experience that there is no lack of bullying, victimisation and discrimination exercised by public servants who take good care to reserve their special attention for those unlikely to be able to defend themselves or to employ professionals to do so.

    A substantial staff expenditure in the NHS is squandered on rooms full of spin-doctors concocting evasions , half-truths , innuendo and outright lies in order to defend the lamentable status quo.

    There is a sickness in the soul of the NHS, with all its works and pomps.

    Who will heal the healers? Injections of more cash will certainly not.

  • Am not a gentleman! I just don't like bad wasteful behaviour that effects the most vulnerable..When children have more decency and sense what is going on ?The whole thing about medicine is the ability to research and investigate using free thought based round symptoms & evidence .It is more of an art than a science but you wouldn't think so the way it operates .

    As for the NHS Constitution, a GP I had never met before at new surgery ,said it wasn't worth the paper it was written on and, with an arrogant look, they were discriminating against the single and disabled by a lack of assistance and provision .Then blame the patient no doubt .Look at how social services don't function .

    Wait till you have alzheimers in the family then you will find out how horrific it is .

    Doctors always took the hippocratic oath no longer they are being directed by those who cannot question or think out of the box as have handed over the precious funds to their employers who contract them in part time . The fact they have to buy in so much so much at inflated cost says it all. Then to blame the patient totally isn't quite so simple.