Deputyship for supported living.

[Balamorym]

Hi, my son is 20, autistic with severe learning disability and challenging behaviours. We are considering supporting living. My social worker is suggesting that the local authority can apply for deputyship as he lacks capacity. Does anyone have experience of this and what are the pros and cons of the LA holding deputyship vs the parent?

[MontyCat]

Hi. I have successfully applied for deputyship for finance and property for my daughter, but failed on both application for and appeal for deputyship for health and welfare, which is I am told much harder to obtain (although people do seem to have managed it!). I think you need to consider carefully the consequences of the LA having deputyship for your son, versus you or another trusted family member/friend being his deputy. Our experience with the LA when my daughter was in supported living was far from positive and I applied for the deputyship because of this, and the assertion of the LA that, were they to deem matters required a best interests meeting, they would appoint themselves as the decision maker. It comes down to trust in the end, and to what extent you want your voice (the voice of your son via you) to be heard and heeded. You do need to get some good advice on this. Mencap may be able to provide this. Good luck.

[Balamorym in reply to MontyCat]

Thankyou for your reply. In your daughter's case did the LA already hold deputyship prior to you applying for it? In our case, my son is still living at home. I am concerned about decisions being taken out of our hands and the LA going for cheaper options rather than best interests. They seem to be talking as it being the norm for them to hold deputyship rather than informing me that this is not the only option.

[MontyCat in reply to Balamorym]

No, they did not hold deputyship prior to me applying for it, and I think you are justified in your concerns.

[Balamorym in reply to MontyCat]

That is a bit concerning. What reason did they give for turning it down. Have the LA been granted deputyship for health and welfare for your daughter?

[MontyCat]

Hi. There was no specific reason cited, but reference to Section 16 (4) of the Mental Capacity Act which directs the court that a( a decision of the court is to be preferred to the appointment of a deputy and b) the powers conferred on a deputy should be as limited in scope and duration as is reasonably practicable in the circumstances. My case was dismissed despite the fact I had submitted evidence of a formal complaint, which was upheld, against the LA for a matter of safeguarding. What added insult to injury was that the appeal was heard by the same judge who made the decision to dismiss the application. Hardly fair or unbiased in my opinion - just money wasted on legal costs. The LA did not apply for deputyship in my daughter's case. We moved her in with us, in a different area, so the issue never arose.

[Balamorym]

That does sound unfair, and very frustrating. So when your daughter was in supported living no-one had deputyship over her health and welfare needs? I thought this was necessary for them to move into supported living if they don't have capacity? It sounds like you were saying that the LA would make decisions for her anyway? Did she receive direct payments for her social care?

[MontyCat in reply to Balamorym]

Hi. Yes, nobody had deputyship for health and welfare when she moved into supported living, and nobody holds that position now. She was in receipt of direct payment, and housing benefit while she was in supported living.

[notmyfault2]

Hi this is a difficult question all I I can a tell you is if our experiences. we are deputies for my daughter and have had a long battle ( despite being deputies) with the local authority on what we believe is appropriate for my daughter and what the local authorities deemed appropriate ( and some of them were truly dire) I am wondering if the Local authority had either joint or deputies for my daughter I believe our position would have been much more difficult. Best get legal help on this one .Mencap helpline are very knowledgeable and hey. Good luck

[Balamorym in reply to notmyfault2]

Thankyou, ufortunately the Mencap line is currently closed, their voicemail states this will be reviewed weekly!

[Jfmj]

Hi My daughter has recently moved into supported living and I am about to start process of applying for deputyship but council doesn’t have, they just assume legal responsibility once our children turn 18

[Balamorym in reply to Jfmj]

Thanks, is it a housing association property sourced by the council?

[Jfmj in reply to Balamorym]

The property is owned by Inclusion Housing and my daughters rent is paid by housing benefit , I am her official Appointee at present so can sign any official financial documents/agreements

[Balamorym in reply to Jfmj]

Thanks, so why are you going for deputyship as it adds time and cost?

[Jfmj in reply to Balamorym]

Because the council can make decisions about my daughters care/where she lives etc without consulting me and if I’m not happy with their decision I don’t have any legal rights to oppose them, the Appointee just covers financial issues like bank accounts etc.

[Balamorym in reply to Jfmj]

Thanks, are you aware, there are 2 types of deputyship, Fancial and Health and Welfare? From what someone on here has said, the latter is very difficult to obtain. The other option to look into is direct payments which might give you more control over care providers etc as you source the care yourself?

[Jfmj in reply to Balamorym]

Yes I’m going to try for both types. My daughters supported living is run by a private care company, they organise all her day to day care, activities etc and have access to her bank account to pay for shopping/activities etc (the account is in my and my daughters joint names so I know what’s being spent). The council pay the care company.

[Balamorym in reply to Jfmj]

Good luck, I would be interested for an update.

[Jfmj in reply to Balamorym]

👍

[1946timmy]

my son is 47 and just moved into supported living, so far I am just his appointee for finances. I am going to go down the route of Deputyship. The LA have not tried to take control they do not takeover legal responsibility for him. We are involved in every decision as they have assessed he doesn’t have Mental Capacity.

Although I have done it yet I would suggest you ignore your Social worker and apply for deputyship yourself .

[Balamorym]

Thankyou, who signed his tenancy agreement? Were you able to claim housing benefit if someone had to sign the agreement for him? My social worker has said that I can't sign his tenancy agreement unless I have deputyship.

[1946timmy in reply to Balamorym]

hi no one signed his tenancy agreement as SS had done a best interest assessment. It’s a house for 3 to share owned by a charity with a specialist landlord managing it. They have applied for the housing benefit for each of the 3 tenants. No one has tried to make any decisions for my son , we all work together, SS , landlord , care provider and parents.

[Greatauntie]

Yes,they can apply but were advised by others their oversight was very 'light touch'. However, Deputyship gives you full control (and accountability). Application takes some time and once issued requires you to send in a report one per year to COP. There is also support from them on line. We did this for husbands sister and are joint deputies. It gives you more power to see bills, receipts and spending to ensure money spent went on your loved ones needs and wants. Prior to that we were continuously fobbed off when wevqueried purchases and found unpaid bills/arrears despite thousands in her account - they were the ones withdrawing monies to pay. Not saying they stole, just incompetent with money and paying bills, confusing client accounts and not taking into account residents needs. Also care company wanted 100% cash for everything which meant once they spent it was too late. You can set up lots of direct debits and obtain a card for the majority of payments.

[MaxandCyd83]

Hello, I have recently got appointeeship for my sister who has learning disabilities and is in a care home. Social services contacted me a couple of years ago about deputyship for finances - they were keen to apply for it themselves. They said I could apply if I wanted deputyship but there was a bit of work involved. I really felt they were steering me towards agreeing to them having deputyship and when I queried the need they agreed it wasn't necessary after all. All I needed was to go for appointeeship.I already had deputyship for my mum regarding her finances so knew what was involved in applying and keeping accounts - felt social services were making it sound more difficult than it was.

The care home staff - who I trust far more than social services - were glad I hadn't agreed to Social services managing her money - they said it was difficult in similar cases getting information about what money the client had. If you are happy to have deputyship rather than the council then I would go for it but I don't know what costs are involved where the person has little or no money. All the best

[class9F]

my son is in supported living and his social worker actively discouraged us from going for deputyship., saying it as a lot of work and time to get and manage. I am his DWP appointee and manage his benefits. His rent is paid direct to the landlord (Inclusion Housing) by housing benefit and I have set up direct debits for bills. My son has a prepaid debit card which I keep topped up for his day to day expenses. I did look at deputyship but as his only money is from benefits there didn’t seem any point especially as neither Inclusion as his landlord, the care company who provide support or social services required it. Also the gov website said there was no need. His tenancy agreement has not been signed by him or on his behalf and apparently that is quite common. I think there must be an agreement between the LA and Inclusion which gives tenants some kind of protection as they are the ones who arrange the placement together with the care company.

[parasiticworm]

I have a social services deputyship since they took me to court and so far it working okay. I'm able to save up for my holidays. I wouldnt be able to do this if I looked after my money myself.

[jacadi]

Hi, I would not trust the LA to make the right decisions for my son. You are the only one who has your son's best interest at heart in the long tem. Even if you get along well with the current social worker, it will soon be someone different. In my 3 years experience with Supported Living - my son is 40 and until recently living in residential care home - both LA and Care provider's have been trying hard to take control of my son by priorising his capacity to make decisions over his actual needs, for their convenience. They pretend he has capacity for every aspect of his life, which is untrue, barred us access to his care plan and most decision-making, ignored the duty to consult with the family, on the ground that he does not want to share information with us. The bottom line is that the LA is desperate to save money, and the care provider, in our case a commercial company, to make money. Your son's needs and quality of life will always come second. Good luck.

[Balamorym]

Sorry to hear that you are not involved more. Have you applied for deputyship?