More support for Patrick's view of metabolic syndrome, plus some stuff I do not understand.
Is There a Role of Warburg Effect in Prostate Cancer Aggressiveness? Analysis of Expression of Enzymes of Lipidic Metabolism by Immunohistochemistry in Prostate Cancer Patients (DIAMOND Study).February 22, 2023
Prostate Cancer (PCa) is still ranked as the first cancer in the male population and evidences have suggested an alteration of glycemic and lipidic metabolism that are related to its progression and prognosis. The aim of the study is to investigate associations between enzymes' expression, especially involved in the lipidic pathway, and PCa aggressiveness. We retrospectively analyzed data from 390 patients with PCa or benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) at the Department of Urology, University of Catania. Immunohistochemical slides were evaluated for the expression of proteins related to glucose and lipidic metabolism. A total of 286 were affected by PCa while 104 by BPH. We demonstrated that ATP-lyase (odds ratio [OR]: 1.71; p < 0.01), fatty acid synthase (OR: 4.82; p < 0.01), carnitine palmitoyl transferase-1a (OR: 2.27; p < 0.05) were associated with androgen receptor (AR) expression. We found that steaoryl Co-A desaturase expression in PCa patients with total cholesterol ≥ 200 mg/dL was independently associated with ISUP ≥4 (OR: 4.22; p = 0.049) [ISUP is a grading system for prostate cancer, betwee 1 and 5 depending on the Gleason score. The lower the grade the less likely the cancer is to spread]. We found that CPT-1a+ was associated with biochemical recurrence (hazard ratio: 1.94; p = 0.03]). Our results support the evidence that the manipulation of lipidic metabolism could serve in the future to contrast PCa progression.
Cancers. 2023 Feb 02*** epublish ***Giorgio Ivan Russo, Maria Giovanna Asmundo, Arturo Lo Giudice, Giuseppe Trefiletti, Sebastiano Cimino, Matteo Ferro, Riccardo Lombardo, Cosimo De Nunzio, Giuseppe Morgia, Eliana Piombino, Maria Failla, Rosario Caltabiano, Giuseppe BroggUrology Section, Department of Surgery, University of Catania, 95124 Catania, Italy., Department of Urology, European Institute of Oncology, IRCCS, 20139 Milan, Italy., Department of Urology, "Sant'Andrea" Hospital, "La Sapienza" University, 00185 Rome, Italy., Pathology Unit, Garibaldi Hospital, 95123 Catania, Italy., Department of Medical and Surgical Sciences and Advanced Technologies "G. F. Ingrassia", Anatomic Pathology, University of Catania, 95124 Catania, Italy.PubMed ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/367...
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" Finestride decreases PSA, and because it is “ falsely low”, we don’t investigate early prostate cancer. Thus why we catch prostate cancer in a more aggressive state with people taking finestride. This is what I have seen in my patient population as a physician. "
IMHO -- depending upon what stage of PCa progression we are at at any given time, determines our options. It is not for everyone -- just like chemo -- the hope is to slow the progress and delay the progression. Make it a chronic disease like controlling high blood pressure.
In many cases men are prescribed some variation of SOC ADT for merely rising PSA post surgery or radiation.
Avadart is worth a try for a few months to see if it slows the PSA doubling time. If it can be slowed to 18 + months doubling time, it is likely that the person will out live PCa with little or no deterioration in over all health -- as opposed to all the debilitating effects of ADT (muscle loss, heart problems, dementia, depression, quality of life etc associated with ADT) and ADT doesn't cure anyone. ADT eventually leads to castrate resistance and aggressive / difficult to treat fast spreading PCa. My Onc at M D Anderson, my uro Onc and my Dr. at NIH have all told me to not get salvage radiation in the blind -- it is unlikely to get every speck of cancer. A cure is virtually unheard of once there is spreading -- (pelvic radiation + prostate bed may set the cancer back for 5 years at a possible cost of a lifetime of urinary/bowl issues)
M D Anderson said "PSA never killed anyone ... don't do anything". I was told in the recovery room from surgery in 2016 he had done nearly 10,000 PCa procedures and was 95% sure they got all the cancer. The pathology report cane back a week later -- Gleason 4+4 - 8 found cancer in 4 of 12 lymph nodes. PSA 0.033 -- I am 7 + years later -- no treatment other than taking Avadart + moderate exercise and taking proven supplements -- on med diet -- don't eat eggs (choline).
I Started Avadart about 8 months post surgery when PSA went to 0.8 it is now around 2.4.
There is a study that included over 18,000 men and covered an18 year follow up -- proving finasteride PREVENTS PCa by 25% -- it doesn't merely delay PCa for 7 years, it prevents it over the 18 year follow up by 30%.
In my opinion, DHT is the culprit not testosterone (proven by this trial and my own case) .
The trail was predicated on the known fact that men with a rare genetic defect of not being able to convert testosterone to DHT ( a 6 times more potent male hormone) DID NOT GET PROSTATE CANCER.
Casodex blocks the use of testosterone to the cells-- whereas --- Avadart and finasteride only block the body from making DHT -- but allow all cells to get testosterone. No chance to develop crpc ... still getting t -- no muscle wasting etc. slowing PSA doubling time.
You realize that your above comment essentially says that you know more than PCa resarch scientists/Docs? Because you have had good luck...you ascribe to your self-treament, and not just luck? How would you know?? The problem with anecdotal " cures"/solutions. I cannot say you are wrong, of course, but one story is no proof of anything, is it? It woould be better if you prefaced your observations about your own treatment witha disclaimer that you do not suggest others disregard other SOC. What probability of lifetime of urinary/bowel deterioration, problems were you given by such MDs////or you discovered by your own research? I and others appreciate your contribution, and I will further investigate any studies of your path...im fact, didn't you mention some study? maybe you could provide a link for us?
You say " it doesn't merely delay PCa for 7 years, "...is that a claim that your PCa has been halted due to your approach, and not just to good luck????
" In my opinion, DHT is the culprit not testosterone (proven by this trial and my own case) .
The trail was predicated on the known fact that men with a rare genetic defect of not being able to convert testosterone to DHT ( a 6 times more potent male hormone) DID NOT GET PROSTATE CANCER. "
Do the researchers make that claim of case closed......treating T waste of time????????? Please direct me to the words that say that?
On Finasteride.......
" Finestride decreases PSA, and because it is “ falsely low”, we don’t investigate early prostate cancer. Thus why we catch prostate cancer in a more aggressive state with people taking finestride. This is what I have seen in my patient population as a physician. "
Assume that 18,000 men trial(unheard of) was some type of randomized study???
you asked ... "Assume that 18,000 men trial(unheard of) was some type of randomized study???".
You might try, reading peoples posts and following the links .. watch the video (above), and ask questions before making unfounded conclusions.... The proof you ask about was already provided ... you just didn't read it. and jumped to all the above accusations.
The trial was one of the biggest ever conducted... done by none other than the National Institute of Health ... and reported on the NIH gov. website.. by the National Cancer Institute It will never get any better than that.
As "an NCI-fundedrandomized clinical trial with nearly 19,000 participants—showed that men aged 55 and older who used the drug finasteride daily for 7 years had a substantially reduced risk of developing prostate cancer".
And, as a matter of fact, after an18 year followup the reduction rate increased to 30% !
It wasn't that finasteride postponed PCa for 7 years, and the finasteride group got cancer later on anyway ---- finasteride prevented PCa by 30% at the 18 year follow up.!!!
If you were to read my posts -- M D Anderson / my Uro Onc and Baylor College of Medicine are fully aware and in complete support of my treatment. You apparently didn't read anything -- just started refuting everything because you were certainly unaware of the trial results, as you said above "trial (unheard of)".
I started taking testosterone injections about 20 months ago to be sure and keep my testosterone level high... it has not caused any increase in the slowed rate of PSA doubling time. Possibly when I reach a superphysl. level of t the Avadart may not be able to block my system from making any DHT -- but is must be minuscule.
Again, IMHO, for the guys who are going to go on a vacation from ADT anyway -- you should give serious consideration to --
(1) get the t levels back up rapidly (like overnight) with rub on t -- shock the cancer to cause double strand breaks for those weakened PCa cells and
(2) start Avadart one daily immediately .... that way when you start making t naturally you won't be able to convert it to the culprit DHT (which DHT is likely the problem that leads to PCa in the first place).
Older guys hormones get out of balance -- we start converting t to DHT.
When we were young, it was just the opposite, high t and low DHT.
Young guys hardly ever get PCa. it takes years to develop.
The PSA will probably rise for a few months when the t comes back and then it will stabilize. After which the PSA will likely start creeping up over the years. While waiting for an immunotherapy cure hopefully only 5 or 6 years away.
My PSA went roughly from 1.8 to 2.4 over the last year. At that rate in 3 years it will be somewhere around 4.8 or 5.0 ? maybe 6.0? in 3 more years who knows 10 ? 12? NIH said it is unlikely It would be visible on conventional scans for another 5 years. I had a PSMA scan in Oct. and it didn't show anything. with a PSA of 2.3 at the time.
If I had gotten on ADT immediately post surgery 7 years ago -- I could very well be crpc or worse .. and certainly have a lower quality of life / heart problems? muscle wasting? There is a track record of millions who have had many side effects as bad or worse from some of the SOC treatments touted as the safe sure fire approach.
Whenever anyone decides to go on vacation from ADT -- I would think Avadart would do nothing but help -- if not be the answer to extended time off ADT and avoiding crpc.
I might add: M. D. Anderson Onc. said "PSA never killed anyone"> NIH said in many cases patients want to throw the kitchen sink at it and you can't tell them any different... especially with the new PSMA imaging that shows micro PCa years before conventional PET scans and bone scans.
Maybe share yours (professional qualifications) first
Why are you debating an opinion? When what you offer is yours... Calm down, there's some benefit from everyone's view, and experience. I debate often with my MO, but by your example here, should I just shut up and do whatever the MO says because he's the MO? Hahahaha, see where I'm going with this thought
For the matter, Retrospective Studies are known to be problematic and not entirely scientific, sometimes begin with an end in mind, ie, cherry picking data to support a preconceived conclusion. So take them with a grain of salt and certainly corelate data elsewhere before teachings conclusion.
Also for the matter, my MO @ MSKCC, a well respected leader in the field and involved with much research and studies has noted the very same thing to me, that with "Advanced" PCa we don't treat PSA. So what's the issue? Lol, I agree!
I find many compelling personal journeys that have been shared here to be educational, whether I accept or reject the data behind it. Each and every journey shared helps others.
Ascribing results to one's own non-SOC path, rather tha pure luck, is not good, IMHO. Thus, my comments to George. Perhaps future studies will affirm his conclusion about his path, but an individual's n=1 should not be the basis for another man's treatment decision IMHO. This is directed at men who may be new to all this and looking for miracles not mentioned by their Docs ! Itis his opinion, but he seems to making a conclusion for others to follow based on his n=1.
They are the same as yours, Jim, Fred, T/A and everyone else on here.
On this portal we all relay our experience, research, progress, updates, thoughts, etc. etc. and simply share them with the community.
Everyone knows where they can go to get SOC... if that is what you want, talk to your own doctor .. he knows your case better than anyone other than yourself (certainly better than anyone on here). This site won't survive if it is merely to repeat SOC ... go to your doctor.. we all know what SOC is.
There was a time on here for years -- (and some, still) - deny that diet slows PCa, They will never post the findings on here.
Some still deny that supplements can slow PCa. with thousands of studies that clearly show that they do.
Actually, in the 8 + years since I was told I had PCa, I have done a lot of research -- to say the least. As I noted earlier, I am under the care of and being regularly monitored by M D Anderson -- my Uro Onc., Baylor College of Medicine and the National Institute of Health in DC area. EVERY ONE of them tell me -- don't do anything but what I'm doing -until mets appear. Which according to NIH could be 5 years or more on conventional CT scans and bone scans.
Not necessarily....there are some here who do have more scientific credentials than others have. I have no idea what yours are...thus I asked. Noted that you didn't claim any... maybe you do, maybe you don't. Whatever side of a discussion/argument someone takes, maybe a little more humility would be appropriate. Studies have results/data, but conclusions are subjective.....and different studies sometimes reach different conclusions about the same subject??? when multiple studies of the same subject repeatedly arrive at the same conclusion, then perhaps the issue has been resolved. I will continue question those who claim that this or that is responsible for a good outcome, when luck is an equally good answer, without tried and true multiple trials to prove otherwise!! Re diet, supplements, etc.....have at it IMHO, assuming little/no harm from whatever.
"Interestingly, men born with a deficiency of 5-alpha reductase, a rare genetic condition, have undetectable levels of PSA and do not get prostate cancer. So, it made sense that finasteride, already approved for the treatment of male pattern baldness and benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), might also reduce the risk of developing prostate cancer."
As anyone can see, I posted the video and link to the trail and the link to cancer.gov with the trial results 11 hours before maley2711 said "the trial (unheard of) was some type of randomized study???" .
Well, yah, it was one of the largest ever done and covered 18 years... it is beyond dispute.
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