Last week I happen to mention that I don't believe it is entirely safe dealing with chiropractors working near or on your neck and head areas due to the risk of arterial dissection. Somebody responded with "They know what to do, they're fine" or the equivalent of that.
Today's newspaper:
Yep. It happens. youtu.be/CbwIISYe7-g?si=bd4...
Hmm, I'd hoped to get a referral to a chiropractor for my chronic bad back. Maybe not a great idea,
Do your own homework kaypeeoh. Over…my 80 years, I’ve had a number of chiropractors using all techniques. Find out for yourself what “cracking”actually means. …. the cracking sound heard during a joint manipulation is not actually from the bones cracking, but rather from the release of gas from the joint.
I go to the chiropractor once a month, more if a problem arises. I move well, I walk fast and people in my retirement village find it hard to believe I’m 80. I’ve had arthritis for years, including in my neck. My chiro works on my neck every visit and I haven’t had a problem for years. Good luck..there’s so much misinformation out there.
My chiro has a son with a girlfriend who’s just qualified as a physiotherapist her in Australia and says she is horrified about the misinformation given out during her studies, now that she understands how chiros work.
Good luck,
Gwendoline
Same here - I have been having chiropractic care for 64 years - a chiro discovered I had scoliosis - doctors missed it for years. Without monthly treatments I would not walk around and would suffer with migraines. In 2020 I had spinal surgery and the neurosurgeon and GP and chiro worked together to give me the best outcome - I am very grateful to have all of them in my life.
There are chiros who don't "crack". Activator, drop table, and other gentle methods.
I’d look for a physio that does manual therapy (bonus if they have Parkinson’s experience). They’ll work to correct postural issues and address underlying muscle imbalances and weakness. A chiro is really only trained to so the manipulations and don’t correct the underlying problem the way a physio can so the problem isn’t really resolved and you end up returning over and over. It’s more like a drug in that respect, an expensive one at that. And I agree with the original poster, keep them away from your cervical spine. There’s simply too many essential arteries and and other vascularizations in the area to be messing around up there…
You need some more education - you obviously have never had experience and are relying on heresay from naysayers!
I’m not sure that your comments are in accordance with the guidelines for respecting others and not being dismissive towards those with differing opinions. I am a healthcare provider with 20 years of experience in Parkinson’s. In the past, I have undergone chiropractic treatment (years ago) and found it to be beneficial in the short term, but required ongoing treatment indefinitely in order to maintain the results. In that respect, it’s not unlike massage or other non-medical treatment. But notably, my opinion is informed by my personal experience with chiropractic in addition to my extensive medical knowledge of Parkinson’s, gleaned from years of clinical practice exclusively in Parkinson’s related disorders in a range of settings. Instead of casting aspersions about my educational level for disagreeing with you, perhaps you can be a little more accepting of others opinions and let the original poster draw their own conclusions from our collective input.
I know the opinions of a lot of medicos - how entrenched they can be in doctrine- and yes ongoing treatment is the norm otherwise I would not have received 64 years of treatment myself - refer to reply to gwendolinej. I can only speak for my experiences as do others.
In that case, I guess we agree.my primary complaint is that the problem is not controlled properly because the underlying issues aren’t addressed, that’s why ongoing treatment is necessary. It’s not the same when you work with a physiotherapist and they address the underlying muscle imbalance and postural issues. I do want to point out that the original poster was talking about concerns of vascular damage when working on the neck. That’s another thing that I don’t think is going to be much of a concern when working with a physical therapist to address these kinds of pain issues (or as others have said, osteopaths, although very few of them in the US perform those types of procedures these days so if you are fortunate enough to locate one, consider yourself, lucky indeed). I do find it rather distasteful that you can consider me entrenched in dogma when in fact, there’s very little clinical or research evidence for the efficacy of chiropractic in stark contrast to the approaches that I’m advocating.
Years ago I owned a veterinary clinic. Across the street was a chiropractor. I visited her and she worked hard to get the cracking sounds from my back. If she couldn't get the crack she felt she'd failed. My understanding is the crack is synovial fluid implosion... Healthy joints would crack while unhealthy joints were unable to be cracked. I found that out myself when I developed knee arthritis. I could pop my healthy knee but not the unhealthy.
Personally I prefer Osteopaths. I don't have PD but went to Chiro for years for my back. Went to an Osteopath about 3 years ago and it has been much better since.
I think that the main point is that he did not try to access any medical records rather than his lack of competence in applying treatment. Sadly I think she was misguided in discharging herself and declining medical care/treatment when advised so to do. I wonder how sparing she had been about her history and advice that she'd been given when requesting his help.
There are good and bad providers in all healthcare professions, but it doesn't mean that the whole profession is a risk for patients because of irresponsible actions of some providers. I'm sure you are not aware of the various types of safe cervical treatments available to patients with neck problems that don't require much force. In other words, no " cracking" of the joints. Don't be Down on what you're not Up on,
And what are you up on? There's also arrogant haughty unwise high risk behavior. If you are of the age to have to think about atherosclerosis or arterial sclerosis, or if you have any illness of connective tissue, you had better do so with a cardiologist and a family practitioner before you consider going around your neck area with a chiropractor. If you don't want a stroke, it's probably worth the very small effort to get checked out. Compare that to getting a stroke. Ask the people who will have to take care of you which would they rather?
Ever think about what happens when you try to bend an uncooked elbow macaroni or bucatini noodle (I'd say spaghetti but bucatini has a hole in it that liquids pass through so it's better example)? That's what your arteries are once you hit your 30s and 40s and particularly after that. Especially risky is your carotid, because it supplies an entire side half of your brain, which dies if it doesn't get it after 5 minutes or has a major bleed up there in your brain either one. Learn about it before somebody says I told you so. Being "too up" is in the dsm, but I like the old term from last century, called La Belle Indifference.
What am I up on? I'm sorry if you found my comment offensive but I've been a Chiropractor for forty years and I found your comments to be offensive to my profession. Like in any health profession there are good and bad doctors. The Chiropractor responsible for this Women's death should have reviewed all of her medical records but then again, this woman discharged herself so was she negligent in supplying all of her information? In my years as a Chiropractor, I've treated thousands of patients with neck problems and if they had serious articular problems, I would refer them to their primary doctor and, if not, I would treat them. My treatment would include non-invasive Chiropractic techniques such as Toggle-Recoil, Activator and other modalities after a complete exam. I'm sorry about the Down on/Up on comment but people do make comments or have opinions when they don't have all the information.
Well chiropractors are not medical professionals and so they should not overstep that boundary, but they should be aware of general aging issues and understand that aging means some degree of normal calcification, brittleness, deposition of substances in an epithelium such as cholesterol scar tissue and other forms of damage and narrowing of arteries that render them like uncooked pasta like with macaroni noodles, and know something about the consequences and risks of their actions, including having some sense of proportion and judgment. So that you aren't simply in a reactive posture which can be very convenient, by which I mean it's convenient to wait on your client should tell you about things so that then having been informed you can react. That's too passive in your business when you're dealing with carotid arteries in anybody who's in the middle-age or past. I mean, look at all the what topics of material Dave Berg puts out with his should advice and positively "will" "do this for you" advice on his website etc. he always manages to point out that he is a doctor, but until recently seemed like virtually never that he is limited to being a chiropractor, nor did I see him until recently put DC anywhere on his site, or near his name... "Doctor Berg," yes, but leaving it to the reader to assume or determine whether that included the nature of the subject he was giving his doctorally advice on, most of which seem to be outside, clearly outside, of the field of chiropractic. Kind of like the ethics of Dr Phil, who once had a psychology license suspended in Oklahoma before Oprah discovered him. Anyway only recently, to my awareness, has Berg put a DC near his name, though he often would make sure that "Dr." was right there. Lately he is finally started putting DC after his name. There's a great name to give chiropractors don't you think? And yes, the rules of the marketplace allow him to do that, no question.
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Anyway when it comes to vital things that may cost you your entire brain and your life, I don't think you have a lot to hide behind so the risks you take on behalf of your clients I think should just be outside your acceptanced scope of practice, and even if it isn't, you ought to exclude it yourself, recommend a nice neck massage machine...leave the neck manipulations to medical trained physiologically manipulative trained people, ie, osteopaths and licensed massage therapists. The risks of carotid damage are too drastic because any sequelae of carotid damage is a catastrophe...and too great for an ethical "who, me?" 45 documented cases before 1993, and yes the rate of cases is really really low, but ruination for anybody it happens to, like being in a jet plane that crashes, and it is preventable just enough by saying "I don't want to be in the position of being the one who caused it, even proximately, for a lousy hour's fee, even if my profession is allowed to let me take that risk on your behalf." Not personal. Just my opinion.
So you would rather have a licensed massage therapist perform neck manipulations???
As I stated previously, you really are not aware of the various types of chiropractic manipulations available to our patients (not clients) that don't require force. No cracking, just gentle and safe realignment to correct the subluxations which is covered by Medicare and insurance. Correcting subluxations has many positive effects on the health of people that most "doctors" are not aware of because that was never covered in their education. Again - Don't look down on what you're not up on!
No I did not say massage therapist of any kind should do neck manipulations, which a clear read of what I said is right there in print and not ambiguous. Just like I would not fly in a carrier that maintains or flies a Boeing plane. The fact that you took what I said about the unnecessary risk due to the incredible consequences of even one stretch or movement or unmooring or break of an age-damaged artery (not even regarding other forms of arterial disease which any fool can read about and realize the consequences of) and twisted and distorted what I said into a sarcastic junior high retort does not too much to put you in a happy light so I do hope you are not trying to broadcast a sales pitch for your profession.
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Osteopaths, many of them anyway, are trained to do manipulations, and most of them are also intelligent enough to understand that if they aren't trained in it, they refrain from doing it. MDs are not trained in manipulations and so they know enough to refrain from doing them. You know, exercise something called professional restraint. I have a feeling that both would refrain from doing anything they thought was unnecessarily risky because they weren't good enough in it. Without having to be told or forced to refraining. That's what your license is partly for, to instill a certain amount of accountability and judgment, which is not required of unlicensed persons. As part of what "professional" is supposed to mean. Unfortunately these days apparently that does not go without saying, but should. Of course for even that to hold, one has to start off with the "Do no harm" ethical outlook. Do you?
Do you take the same oath that real doctors do ("First, do no harm.")? Hard to imagine it would be worth it to an ethical person to expose somebody to that kind of risk, not in terms of frequency, as I said before, but in terms of the consequence. And since you seem to need to have it stated explicitly, as I said, neck manipulations that would involve or even potentially involve carotid.
That is why I choose to get OMT from a doctor(DO) instead. No cracking, gentle realignment, safe and covered by medicaire and insurance.
what is omt
Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy
Plus, a good rough measure of responsibility is also how much a person has to pay for their professional liability insurance. I think doctors (MD and DO) are about at the top.
NECK DYSTONIA WOKE ME UP TODAY.HAS ANYONE WITH PD EXPERIENCED THIS?
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