How To Make Melatonin Lotion : A Potential More Efficient Way Of Getting Melatonin Compared To Oral Melatonin And A Surprise Finding

[chartist]

A major problem I see with oral melatonin is the very poor bioavailability of oral melatonin, thought to be around 3% in humans as discussed here :

bmcpharmacoltoxicol.biomedc....

Here is a relevant study quote :

' The bioavailability of oral melatonin was only 3%, but a considerable variability between the volunteers was noticed. '

The other problem with oral melatonin is that the effects are short lived, lasting only about five hours.

On the other hand, topically applied melatonin lotion accumulates in the many layers of the stratum corneum and is more slowly released into the circulation over a period of approximately 24 hours as discussed here :

researchgate.net/publicatio...

Here is a relevant study quote :

' In a clinical study, the skin penetration properties of melatonin 0.01% in a cream and 0.01 and 0.03% in a solution were investigated by evaluation of the serum melatonin levels over a 24-hour time course in 15 healthy volunteers. Blood samples for melatonin measurements were taken at 9.00 a.m. before applying the test preparations and 1, 4, 8 and 24 h after application. The measurements were carried out by radioimmunoassay for melatonin. In 15 volunteers, the serum levels of melatonin before application of the topical preparations were between 0.6 and 15.9 pg/ml. After application of the 0.01% melatonin cream, there was a steady increase starting from 9.00 a.m. up to a mean serum value of 9.0 pg/ml at 9.00 a.m. the next day. The solution of 0.01% melatonin also showed an increase, starting from 5.00 p.m., up to a mean melatonin level of 12.7 pg/ml 24 h after application. The solution containing 0.03% melatonin resulted in elevated melatonin levels 1 and 8 h after application. The values were 18.1 and 19.0 pg/ml. The cumulative melatonin values for each preparation were 7.1, 8.6 and 15.7 pg/ml, respectively. This study shows that the strongly lipophilic substance melatonin is able to penetrate through the skin and leads to dose- and galenic-dependent melatonin levels in the blood. '

Given the above data, I have been testing topical melatonin lotion (ML) for the past year and a half in myself, family, friends and acquaintances. The results seem to show that ML improves the length of time ML is active in the body, but it also had an effect that I suspected it would, but was not sure that it would. That effect, was pain relief.

In one friend with collorectal cancer that had metastasized to the liver that was testing very high dose oral melatonin at 360 mg/day, melatonin lotion could offer pain relief in the area of the liver that 360 mg of oral melatonin could not.

It is worth mentioning that , in studies, melatonin has shown the ability to help multiple spinal issues which I have not previously discussed on this forum.

WHAT TYPE OF PAIN RELIEF DID MELATONIN LOTION OFFER

The following list of 40 items is what was reported to me by everyone that tested ML.

1. Neck pain from multiple causes.

2. Lower back pain.

3. Shoulder pain.

4. Migraine headache relief.

5. Head and neck pain relief from a neck injury after falling backward onto the rim of a plastic bucket.

6. Eczema of the scalp.

7. Scalp pain.

8. Completely relieved jaw pain from two jaw fractures and helped to get to sleep. Based on studies may also help the fractures to heal faster.

9. Synergy pain relief with the Hyaluronic Acid / Stopain remedy for degenerative disc disease (DDD) which I have not discussed on this forum.

10. Headache relief

11. Muscle pain

12. Eliminated nerve tingling in feet caused by stage IV cancer with Lepto Menengeal.

13. Ankle pain

14. Knee pain

15. Swelling of the neck caused by injury

16. Calf pain of unknown cause

17. Nerve pain

18. Hand and finger pain

19. Back pain that required a cane to walk was relieved enough that no cane was needed after regular twice daily applications.

20. Relieved sciatic nerve pain

21. Relieved thyroiditis and swelling with pain + sore throat pain that made even swallowing saliva very painful and of unknown origin and eliminated it in about a week eliminating the need for further application of melatonin lotion to the area. My friend thought it might have been caused by a recent endoscopy.

22. Relieved hip pain

23. Relieved bulging disc pain

24. Relieved Atopic Dermatitis

25. Stomach discomfort relief after applying to the surface of the stomach.

26 Relieved thumb joint pain

27. Helped a person to alleviate pain and muscle tension prior to her chiropractic appointment allowing her chiropractor to make what they both described as very good adjustments to her spine, which he had previously been unable to do because of muscle stiffness caused by the pain.

28. Helped two people with arthritic hand pain, one that was unresponsive to Borax and one that was only minimally responsive to Borax.

29. Helped a person with pain from liver cancer in the area of the liver to temporarily effectively relieve the recurring pain.

30. Helped a friend to sleep well when applied in the early evening.

31. Relieved pain in sore toes

32. Stiffness and discomfort of the hands without pain present was eliminated.

33. Improves wound healing.

34. Adds to the effectiveness of certain topical psoriasis medications.

35. Relieved toe cramps.

36. Alleviates spinal stenosis pain.

37. Much more effective pain relief than 360 mg of oral melatonin per day.

38. The very significant pain relief in multiple areas of the body caused high blood pressure to decrease, allowing for a halving of the hypertension medication dose by one friend.

39. Reduced the swelling of swollen arthritic finger joints.

40. Healed trigger finger in four days for one tester.

It is worth mentioning that the people who tested ML generally felt that ML had a cumulative effect for the first 2 to 3 weeks. In other words, pain relief seemed to increase for the first 2 to 3 weeks of regular use. At 2 to 3 weeks, the benefit was generally more than it was on the first 3 days of regular use.

WHAT IS MISSING

Only one person with PD tested the lotion, but they weren't testing it for the type of pain often seen in PD, so I have no idea if it will help with that type of pain, but I am doubtful if it would because that type of pain seems to be tied to the various medications used to treat PD.

HOW I MAKE MELATONIN LOTION

Gather The Ingredients

1. Melatonin bulk powder - 1/4 level full measuring spoon (This is roughly 750 mg)

2. Cetaphil Lotion - 1.5 ounces

3. Gin - 1.5 ounces

4. Three ounce bottle

I Add the melatonin powder to the bottle and then I add the 1.5 ounces of gin to the bottle. Replace the cap and shake the bottle until the melatonin powder is fully dissolved in the gin. It is important to fully dissolve the melatonin in the gin before adding the lotion in order to get maximum effectiveness. Now top the 3 ounce bottle off with Cetaphil lotion and shake very well. I often use this mix right after making it. I apply this lotion SPARINGLY up to twice a day.

SIDE EFFECTS

A couple of people who tested this lotion said that if they applied too much lotion or too often, it could make them feel tired, but if they applied in the later afternoon and before bed it wasn't bad. As with oral melatonin, some people are more sensitive to feeling tired and it seems that ML may have similar effects. Applying sparingly also helped prevent tiredness.

WARNING

Please get your doctor's approval and supervision before testing this lotion and to make sure it will be compatible with all medications you are taking, as melatonin has shown not to be compatible with certain medications.

WHAT I USED

Melatonin bulk powder :

amazon.com/BulkSupplements-...

Gin - Small bottle

I used several large bottles (750 ml each) because I was doing a lot of testing.

Cetaphil Lotion :

amazon.com/Cetaphil-16oz-Cr...

I tried a couple of other lotions and they worked fine. Vodka did not seem to be as good as gin for dissolving the melatonin. It seemed like significantly more vodka was required to dissolve the melatonin powder when compared to gin.

Art

[Sydney75]

Interesting! My HWP also has RLS and melatonin aggravates his RLS. This slow absorption method might be worth a try. Did the folks using the ML for pain apply it to the specific areas of their body where they had pain?

Thanks,

-Syd

[chartist in reply to Sydney75]

Yes, for the main part except possibly in the case of certain nerve issues where application to the spine seemed as or more effective.

Art

[park_bear]

This might avoid that awful melatonin induced diarrhea that some are afflicted by.

healingwell.com/community/d...

[chartist in reply to park_bear]

Yes, it should avoid that problem since little of the melatonin will reach the digestive system, but will definitely make it into the blood circulation and the brain since it easily crosses the blood brain barrier.

Art

[MarionP in reply to park_bear]

I wonder if it's the melatonin or what else they pack into the pills. Meanwhile this whole idea solves the riddle I have always had which is when you take two or three or five melatonin for sleep, who in the world and how in the world can they tolerate claiming they're doing well taking it better taking 50 60 80 mg who in the world could tolerate that? 3% bioavailability sure answers that one, finally.

[LAJ12345]

wow, interesting. I tend to break open a melatonin capsule and sprinkle under my tongue. It does send me to sleep quickly but I often do wake about 5 hours later

[TracyLaine in reply to LAJ12345]

Hi! There are some extended release melatonin formulas that might be helpful for you!

[LAJ12345 in reply to TracyLaine]

I have tried one but we are quite restricted in NZ and can’t buy over the counter and have to get prescription to be allowed to import it. I used to be able to get the dual spectrum nature bounty but last time I tried to buy it none of the ones that would sell to NZ had it so I ended up with 10mg caps from them. 10 mg is too much and gives me psychedelic dreams so I started just taking a sprinkle and that worked so one cap lasts me about 4 days.

[chartist in reply to LAJ12345]

What I found interesting was the pain relieving effects of the lotion, which even 360 mg of oral melatonin could not offer.

Art

[LAJ12345 in reply to chartist]

Yes, it is interesting.

at this stage he doesn’t have pain thank goodness.

[Smittybear7 in reply to chartist]

Where can you buy this and how much can you safely use? Is there anyone that shouldn’t use it? Thanks for sharing.

[chartist in reply to Smittybear7]

I included instructions on how to make ML, but I also included this safety warning :

' Please get your doctor's approval and supervision before testing this lotion and to make sure it will be compatible with all medications you are taking, as melatonin has shown not to be compatible with certain medications. '

Art

[1LittleWillow]

Fascinating. Can you translate "sparingly" into a measurement? Would you start with 1/4 teaspoon, 1/2 teaspoon? Thanks for sharing your research!

[chartist in reply to 1LittleWillow]

This is how my friends who tested ML described sparingly :

Take an approximate pea sized amount of lotion and apply to the back of the neck from just below the shoulder line up to the top of the neck. Note that the top of the neck is above the hairline, all the way to the base of the skull. Several people mentioned to me that applying all the way up to the base of the skull offered more pain relief than just going to the hairline. They said that once you did this, you will "have a feel" for applying sparingly.

Some people, such as myself, have a high tolerance for melatonin and can apply as much and as often as I want.

In testing ML, I found that substituting Aloe Vera gel for the Cetaphil lotion allows application to the face and close proximity to the eyes without eye irritation. Why would you do this? Because both aloe vera gel and melatonin are good for the skin and will offer protective effects to the facial skin. If you try doing this with the lotion mix, it will be irritating to the eyes. The gel caused little if any irritation to the eyes.

Art

[1LittleWillow in reply to chartist]

Very helpful, thanks! I am absolutely going to try this. I've wanted to take melatonin anyway, but at oral doses above 5 mg, it makes me restless at night. I have a back pain issue that started about 10 years before my PD diagnosis. It's probably PD-related (can't identify any structural or nerve issues), and it's the bane of my existence. Currently, it limits me much more than my Parkinson's.

[MarionP]

Fascinating incredibly great idea

[chartist in reply to MarionP]

Thank you for saying so!

I am really interested in whether it can help with the PD pain that many forum members have mentioned that occurs when transitioning from on time to off time as the medications are wearing off. If it does, that could be quite useful on this forum. In any case, it seems like a good and effective option for getting melatonin.

Art

[MarionP in reply to chartist]

Meanwhile this whole idea solves the riddle I have always had which is when you take two or three or five mg melatonin for sleep, who in the world and how in the world can they tolerate claiming they're doing well taking it better taking oral 50 60 80 100mg who in the world could tolerate that? 3% bioavailability sure answers that one, finally.

[chartist in reply to MarionP]

Well, I was at 132 mg/day and since adding ML to my regimen, I have reduced my dose of oral melatonin to 60 mg/day to maintain my melatonin gut level since it is thought that normal melatonin gut level is second only to mitochondrial melatonin level.

Art

[gomelgo in reply to chartist]

What is the reasoning for the gin?

[chartist in reply to gomelgo]

In order for the topical melatonin to work, it has to be dissolved and the gin dissolves melatonin. That is the reason why you can not add the lotion until you first dissolve the melatonin in the gin. Once the melatonin is fully dissolved in the gin, then you add the lotion. If you try to mix all three at the same time, the mix will be too weak to be fully effective.

Art

[Ashti in reply to chartist]

Thank you for these details. I want to run by my concoction with you. I was unable to get the bulk powdered melatonin, and tried grinding up pills but they needed way too much gin to dissolve which I am assuming is because the pills have a lot of filler. My solution was to use liquid (cherry flavoured) melatonin and mix it with lotion.

I am starting with 0.5 ml of liquid melatonin from the dropper which has 5mg of melatonin and two ‘pumps’ of lotion, and mixing them together in my hands, before massaging into the skin - and just mix it up every night before applying.

I am wondering how my mixture’s concentration (5mg/application) compares to a pea sized application of your recipe. If 3 ounces contain 750 mg of melatonin, where 1 liquid ounce = 6 teaspoons, and if one pea sized amount = 1/4 teaspoon, then 750 mg/3 ounces/6 teaspoons/4 peas per teaspoon = 10.4 mg per pea sized application. So if these calculations are reasonable, it looks like I am starting with half strength (more or less) with the 5 mg application.

[chartist in reply to Ashti]

Sorry for the delayed reply, I just now saw your question as I did not receive a notification.

Please let us know how your mixture works out for you. I'm wondering what country you are in that you can get the melatonin formulation you described, but can't get the bulk powder form?

Art

[Ashti in reply to chartist]

I am in Canada, and probably could get it via the US (like I did for Piping Rock B complex) but would rather get it from the local store. Here is the 10mg/ml Liquid Melatonin by Sisu (natural black cherry flavour - even though we are using it topically), that I mix with lotion 🧴 in my palms. No results to report yet, but it was easy to incorporate into HWP’s nightly foot massage (lucky guy) to help with mild (and hoping to stay mild) neuropathy. Certainly no bad side effects (😅). This liquid form is probably much more expensive than the bulk powder, but at least it does not require gin, lol.

Liquid Melatonin by Sisu

[chartist in reply to Ashti]

With the mix I described, each ounce contains 250 mg of melatonin and the breakdown looks somewhat like this :

3 oz. = 750 mg melatonin

2 oz. = 500 mg

1 oz. = 250 mg

3/4 oz. = 187.5 mg

1/2 oz. = 125 mg

1/4 oz. = 62.5 mg

1/8 oz. = 31.25 mg

1/16 oz. = 15.625 mg

Seems like a pea sized amount would be around 1/16 oz or slightly more. If you are diluting 10 mg of your flavored melatonin dropper fluid with lotion, you are significantly below the amount of melatonin in the lotion I described.

It might be easier to check eBay Canada for melatonin powder. As to the gin, it very likely improves transdermal absorption for the brief period that it rapidly evaporates right after application :

ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R4...

Art

[Ashti in reply to chartist]

Thank you, Art. That is very helpful. Until I track down the powder - thank you for the link- I will increase the concentration of my mixture.

We notice that compared to the usual lotion, the lotion with melatonin makes his feet feel a warmth and a pleasant tingly sensation after it has been applied. Do you notice similar short term effects?

Thanks!

[chartist in reply to Ashti]

I have not heard such reports previously so that is new information for me, but I have to consider it with a grain of salt as there may be other ingredients in your melatonin liquid that are causing those sensations. Reports I have gotten were mainly pain relief, but a few others as well.

As to that link, I selected ebay Canada, but I did not see any clarification that it took me to ebay Canada.

It may be better for you to go to ebay Canada using your browser and make certain they actually have the melatonin powder.

Art

[ssrs in reply to chartist]

Can you tell me what the consistency of this is supposed to be? I prepared some today from the instructions above. It is very thin as opposed to a more normal everyday lotion. Is that normal?

Shaunna

[chartist in reply to ssrs]

Yes, the gin does slightly dilute the Cetaphil Lotion making it thinner, but easier to apply sparingly, as is suggested.

Have you tried it for any type of pain yet? I would be interested in what you used it for and and what you thought about it, good or bad. The great majority of responses have been positive. The list of 40 pain reliefs has increased by 3 bringing the current total to 43, with the recent 3 being bunion pain relief, stopped hair fall post Covid and greatly relieved pain from Fibromyalgia.

Art

[ssrs in reply to chartist]

Today I put a small amount on my HWP upper thigh. I want him to use it on his toes and feet since his toes always seem to be clenched. I did see some one else said they used vodka and CeraVe lotion. Can we substitute the CeraVe lotion for the Cetaphil? I am also planning on trying it for back pain and migraines.

Thanks!!

[chartist in reply to ssrs]

Please let me know if it works for that purpose as that seems to be quite common in PD. If it helps, that would be great and a new use for ML that forum members may be able to utilize.

Yes, I believe CeraVe lotion should work also, but I have not tried that one so far. Let me know if it works for you and or your husband.

Art

[ssrs in reply to chartist]

I am going to order the CeraVe tonight. Does it matter if it has hyaluronic acid in the lotion?

Thanks!!

[chartist in reply to ssrs]

I don't know. A friend tried to add HA to the Cetaphil based melatonin lotion and it kept separating. I think the problem may be between the gin and the HA. It may be better to find out if the regular Cetaphil lotion, melatonin powder and gin has any benefit for you before buying the CeraVe lotion. If the Cetaphil is helpful for you and you want to try CeraVe, then it might be worth trying the CeraVe as the small amount of lotion needed for one batch isn't much, so you won't be ruining the whole bottle of CeraVe if it doesn't work out.

Art

[ssrs in reply to chartist]

That does make sense. We will continue with the Cetaphil for awhile and see how it works.

Thank you Art!

[DaisyMakepiece]

You are brilliant. Thank you so much. I'm going to make some as soon as I get the ingredients. Very hopeful I can help friends who experience a lot of pain, and maybe myself, who experiences a little. Plus my face could always look better.

Art, you're the best.

[chartist in reply to DaisyMakepiece]

If you do end up testing ML for yourself and your friends, please come back and give feedback on your results, positive or negative.

Art

[Jstover]

I’m sorry are you saying 1/4 of a teaspoon of the melatonin?

[chartist in reply to Jstover]

Yes, 1/4 level full measuring teaspoon .

Art

[Lizzy9]

Thank you Art for all this wonderful information, your research, your testing, sharing this, and your time!!

I ordered the melatonin and lotion this morning and will mix it up as soon as I get it. My HwP has excruciating back pain which is from working hard and playing hard his whole life and I suppose, now, increased from PD. I am hoping this will help him tremendously!!

After looking over your list of what it can help I will be smearing the stuff on many places on both of us. I am very excitedly hopeful for great results. We’ll apply it at night just in case we get too sleepy from it!!

Thank you, again, for so much information!!

Have a fabulous week!

Gail

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Most of the people who tested ML told me that they felt that ML started out slow and had a cumulative effect over the first two to three weeks.

Art

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

Thank you. I will start it slowly then and monitor the effects.

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Please come back to this thread and let us know how it works for you.

Art

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

Yes, I will.

Thank you!!

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art ~ I guess I’m #4.

I have been using the melatonin cream per your recipe. I use it on both shoulders & low back. I have not been applying it twice daily, usually only once. Yes, it has been helping!!! I also have been using my HwP’s Well Red helmet on my right shoulder & the Well Red pad on my back once a day.

I am sure the combination of Melatonin cream & Red Light is greatly improving my pain. I don’t think I’d get as good of results with just one or the other.

This morning I was very impressed., though. When I got up this morning my back was really hurting so I put the cream on & I was so amazed that my pain was very negligible in a very short time. My back & shoulders are extra troublesome right now since I am having to do extra heavy lifting.

So all in all I am very pleased with the results & will continue to keep it on hand.

Thank you for your time and information!!!

Have a fabulous day!!!

Gail

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Hi Gail,

I'm glad the melatonin lotion (ML) is helping you with pain relief for your back and shoulders caused by the heavy lifting! Is it also helping you with migraine headaches, as that is what #4 is about? My friends, family and acquaintances who tested ML reported that the benefits, when used daily, seemed to increase for the first 2 to 3 weeks and then plateaued.

You are now the fourth forum member to report pain relief from ML!

I know that ML can help relieve many forms of pain in multiple areas of the body from head to toe, but am very interested if it can help relieve pain in PwP during medication transition periods, when the meds are either wearing off or kicking in? Some forum members have reported pain during these periods and I do not yet know if ML can help relieve that type of pain? That could be useful information for forum members who are affected by that type of pain.

Btw, it is worth mentioning that a main method of action of red light therapy (RLT) is that it is thought to increase local melatonin levels in mitochondria where the RLT is applied. ML seems like a somewhat cheaper and easier way to increase those melatonin levels, but not just locally as ML will increase melatonin in the blood also.

Art

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

The #4 referred to being the 4th person to get back to you.

My HwP doesn’t seem to have any changes in pain associated with medication transition times.

Thank you again for your help!

Gave a fabulous week end

Gail

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Hah!🙃 I thought you were referencing the list of 40 areas of pain relief with #4 being migraine relief!

Art

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Hi Gail,

I forgot that you originally intended to use the melatonin lotion for your husbands "excruciating back pains". Has he tried it yet and did it help him? From feedback I have gotten from others, it seems to have a cumulative effect for the first two to three weeks when the benefit levels off.

Art

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

Hi Art ~ Yes, I did try it on my husbands back pain area. It didn’t seem to help him too much. But maybe I should give it another try since he had a cortisone injection last week. We don’t know if that has helped yet. But maybe the ML would work better now.(?)

Blessings ~

Gail

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Thank you for the feedback Gail. Something that all three of the first people that tried ML said to me, not including myself, is that initial pain relief was less that Stopain roll on, available at most drug stores, but after a week of 2x a day application, pain relief exceeded Stopain roll on, noticeably.

I will say that nobody who I had test ML described their pain as "excruciating" and that may be a level beyond what ML can help quickly, but given the beneficial effects of melatonin to the spine and muscles, a one month or longer trial period of 2x day applications may be worth considering for your husband?

Art

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

Well, you have my attention. I’ll get my husband on it and see how things go & give it time!!

Thank you again for your help!!!

[chartist in reply to Lizzy9]

Here is a little info on how melatonin helps muscles :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Here are two relevant quotes from the review :

' Melatonin is a highly evolutionary-conserved ancient molecule that was only recently rediscovered as a safe dietary supplement in muscle disorders and in exercise. This review attempts to shed light on potential and promising therapeutic roles of melatonin to limit muscle deterioration, mainly mitochondrial function, and sarcopenia. Main pathways activated by melatonin in skeletal muscle are drawn in Figure 2. '

' However, the utility of melatonin in athletes to obtain the best physical performance is strictly time-dependent, dose-dependent, and exercise-dependent. '

The following gives information on one way of several that melatonin helps the spine :

sciencedirect.com/science/a....

Here are a few relevant study quotes :

' •

Melatonin can effectively alleviate intervertebral disc ageing and degeneration.

•

Melatonin inhibits disc cell apoptosis and degeneration in multiple ways.

•

Melatonin promotes matrix anabolism in intervertebral disc cells.

•

Melatonin resists oxidative stress, regulates autophagy, and inhibits inflammation.

Art

[Lizzy9 in reply to chartist]

Very interesting!!! Thank you!!!

[chartist]

Topical melatonin, beyond its more efficient absorption and pain relieving effects is also a potent skin protectant as described in the following link :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Here is a relevant quote from the review article :

' In our view, endogenous intracutaneous melatonin production, together with topically-applied exogenous melatonin and its metabolites, represent two of the most potent defense systems against external damage to the skin. '

Interestingly, melatonin in the blood, has very limited potential to reach the skin, but melatonin absorbed from the skin can readily reach the blood.

Art

[alexask]

Brilliant. Sadly we can't get bulk powder here. Would crushing up some 12 mg tablets be any good?

[JayPwP in reply to alexask]

Bulk Supplements not available there?

[alexask in reply to JayPwP]

Not in the UK. Banned probably because the government doesn't want people to live too long.

[JayPwP in reply to alexask]

😜😜😜

[Lizzy9 in reply to alexask]

I imagine there would be fillers in pills. Any chance of finding pills without fillers or at least minimal fillers?

I agree ~ the government (US) does not want us to live!😱😱

Have a fabulous day (anyway & keep on trying don’t give up)!!!

[chartist in reply to alexask]

If you are in the UK, I suggested a UK supplier of bulk melatonin to a forum member and they said they

were able to order the powder from them with reasonably quick shipping and they said it worked for 4 different issues once they made the lotion. Here is the link :

rawpowders.co.uk/melatonin-...

It took quite awhile to load, but it does load.

Art

[alexask in reply to chartist]

Wow fantastic!

[MBAnderson]

Art,

I have 2 questions, tho.

1. How in the world do you figure this stuff out?

2. Excuse my ignorance, but since a picogram (pg/ml) is one-trillionth of a gram, why isn't 3% that is normally absorbed of say, 360 mg, - more?

Marc

[chartist in reply to MBAnderson]

Hi Marc,

I have always felt that oral melatonin was a very poor way to deliver melatonin and that is why I have always looked for a better way to deliver melatonin where we could get more benefit from it. Then I came across the study describing the absorption of melatonin through the skin and have been testing that method for about 1.5 years now and finally felt comfortable with posting that information on this forum after that testing. Having melatonin active in your system all the time is much more beneficial than just a 5 hour useful window that oral melatonin offers.

The actual absorption rate of melatonin varies by individual, but the point being that oral melatonin is very poorly absorbed and in some people at a rate even lower than 3% . I don't know what measure of picograms of melatonin in the blood that the 360 mg oral dose achieves in humans because there are no studies that I am aware of that define that number at that dose, but it may still be 3% or thereabouts , but not enough to surpass the local tissue level that ML easily reaches. I do know that melatonin lotion can reach very significantly higher local tissue levels before it moves on to the blood stream though. The other consideration is that an even higher oral dose such as 360 mg may have an even poorer percentage absorption rate than a lower dose. With only a 5 hour window of opportunity for oral melatonin to perform in humans, this is another significant obstruction to oral melatonin usefulness. I think the majority of oral melatonin does its work in the gut microbiome and that is why I still take oral melatonin as well as topical melatonin.

Topically applied melatonin accumulates in the layers of the stratum corneum where it is released over an approximate 24 hour period, somewhat like a patch. Based on what I have read in the literature, I feel that oral melatonin does its major work in the gut, while topically applied melatonin does its main work in the skin and then moves on to the blood circulation and ultimately the brain since melatonin readily crosses the blood brain barrier (BBB). If melatonin crosses the BBB and it does, then that means it very likely gets into the cerebral spinal fluid (CSF), which would be very important for PwP, as melatonin in CSF is protective of the brain. PwP are thought to have lower melatonin level in the CSF. Topical melatonin also avoids the first pass loss and gut microbiome loss. The combination of delivery methods seems better than either one alone. The pain relieving effects are just a bonus.

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to chartist]

Thank you, Art.

[chartist]

In symptom # 4, a friend told me that melatonin lotion alleviated their migraine headaches faster than anything else they had tried and also mentioned their migraines used to last a week, but now are over in less than a day with very reduced symptoms during that initial period. This new (May, 2024) randomized, placebo controlled trial (RCT) adds further confirmation to the idea that melatonin significantly relieves migraine headaches with a very good safety profile :

ijms.sums.ac.ir/article_496...

Here is relevant quote from the RCT :

' Our study shows that melatonin was more efficacious than the placebo in the reduction of frequency and duration of migraine attacks. It was equally safe as the placebo and might be effective in the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. '

Art

[chartist]

This is a copy and paste from a post by forum member MarionP that is relevant to this post on the pain relieving effects of melatonin lotion as well as my reply :

MarionP profile imageMarionP in reply to chartist

4 hours ago

Art, melatonin by ingestion versus melatonin cream which is topical: what basis to think either would work? (PS I used your formula to make melatonin cream and my perception has been that it helps with pain for sure, many thanks for that one!)

My Reply :

chartist profile imagechartist in reply to MarionP

5 minutes ago

Marion, thank you very much for the feedback as feedback is very useful! As far as I am aware, you are only the third forum member to have given feedback on actual use of melatonin lotion (ML) and all three are positive and add further confirmation to what I have reported on this forum regarding ML. I will copy and paste your post into the original ML thread.

If you look at the last link about melatonin lotion ( healthunlocked.com/cure-par... ), in that link, I link to the studies which answer your question. As to pain relief, my thinking on that aspect of ML is based on multiple studies suggesting that melatonin, through its direct and indirect antioxidant and radical scavenging activities as well as its well described anti inflammatory effects in the literature, should definitely have pain relieving qualities and my testing confirmed that response. The oral dose required to reach the pain relieving effects of ML have to be astronomical. The potential of ML for benefit to human health, imo is far greater than equivalent dosing of oral melatonin. Imo, the combination of both is even more so.

I tested ML in myself, family, friends and acquaintances for over a year and a half to confirm that aspect of ML. Of note is that most testers using ML daily suggested that continued daily use seemed to have a cumulative effect for the first two to three weeks or to say that a little differently, the benefit seemed to increase when compared to the first application, for about two to three weeks and then it leveled off .

Art

[chartist]

This is another copy and paste of a post by forum member MarionP regarding this topic and my reply :

MarionP profile imageMarionP in reply to chartist

7 hours ago

You know there is a very nice side benefit, which is that one does not have to rely on the traditional NSAID medications with their side effects and risks... Such as ibuprofen, acetaminophen, aspirin, naproxen, and even diclofenac... Not to mention the ones which one must have a prescription and carry higher risks too. I think that is not a small benefit so I would encourage other people to take your little topical concoction here very seriously. Also, you know it is really doggone cheap.

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chartist profile imagechartist in reply to MarionP

6 hours ago

You are absolutely correct regarding the NSAID side effects when compared to melatonin lotion (ML). Another point is that because of the multiple methods of action of melatonin, ML also has the potential to offer healing effects to multiple areas of the body such as the spine, as discussed here :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Here is a relevant quote :

' Preclinical studies suggest that melatonin may exert neuroprotective effects and promote the restoration of neurologic function after SCI (Figure 1). Multiple mechanisms are potentially involved, including antioxidant effects, regulation of iNOS, inhibition of proinflammatory cytokines, blood vessel repair, restoration of the blood-brain barrier, inhibition of cell apoptosis, edema resistance, inhibition of cell autophagy, and regulation of MMP, p38, JNK, ERK1/2, and MAPK pathways. '

Given the fact that melatonin can traverse the human body with relative ease, you can see where ML suggests potential to be effectively applied on top of the spine for benefit in that location.

I will copy and paste these posts into the original thread for continuity.

Art

[park_bear]

Hi Art,

My report:

I prepared melatonin lotion by measuring out one gram of powdered melatonin from Bulk Supplements into 2 oz of vodka. I had to stir it for a little while but it did fully dissolve. I then added the solution to 2 oz of Ceravie Lotion, which is quite thick on its own. The resulting combination had a satisfactory consistency.

I then applied this liberally to my arms which have been quite sore, and to my lower back and to my neck, which have been stiff and painful, once a day, for 3 weeks straight. The good news is no adverse effect. As you know I'm not able to tolerate oral melatonin. The bad news is no effect on the pain, stiffness and soreness. No harm done, at any rate.

Also for the last few days I've been using infrared heat on my arms.

-PB

[chartist in reply to park_bear]

Thank you for the feedback, p_b! Well it sounds like you made it correctly. Since you are tolerating it very well, maybe you can try the twice a day application. If you do that, please let me know if it helps.

Although ML did not help the pain you are experiencing, it may be worth applying it anyway as it is likely to reduce the level of muscle and joint damage that may be occurring as melatonin has muscle and joint protective effects.

Art

[chartist]

I got some feedback this morning from a lady who just started using melatonin lotion for her fibromyalgia pain and I wanted to share her results with the forum members in case they have Fibromyalgia also or know people with fibromyalgia. Here is a copy and paste of what she wrote me :

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' So I tried the link you shared and they said that Melatonin powder is not allowed to be shipped to Canada plus many other countries. So I went ahead and used the capsules I had purchased. The additional ingredients in these capsules are gelatin, magnesium stearate, maltodextrin and microcrystaline cellulose. When I googled these ingredients I saw that they are also in skin care products so I decided to go ahead and make the melatonin lotion recipe with the capsules, to be clear the capsules have the powder in them. There were 90 capsules in the bottle which equaled 900mg of melatonin.

This is the recipe that I used which I adjusted down to work with 900mg of melatonin:

900mg melatonin (90-10mg capsules)

1.35 oz (40ml) gin

2.25 oz (66.5ml) lotion

I added the gin to the powder and it did not dissolve completely but it may have if I added more, I just assumed that the other ingredients perhaps did not dissolve in the gin. I then added the lotion and mixed it well. It is a bit grainy in texture but goes on smooth and absorbs great.

Now the good news, it works!!! I have fibromyalgia and I am always getting new pains and some go after a while and some stick around and are so bad I can't sleep. My newest pains were in my neck, shoulder, arm and hand and it was bad. I applied the lotion to my shoulder, neck and arm and when I woke up the next morning after sleeping the whole night! The pain was greatly reduced I couldn't believe it!

I am continuing to use it every night and just a touch during the day if I feel the need but my shoulder is 80% better, my arm and neck are being a bit more stubborn but at least 50% better and my hand is also 80% better. I have applied it to a sore bunion and that is pain free now!

I had started to use the magnesium oil in a spray bottle a while back with minimal help with pain but I continue to use it because I know it's good for me.

I also want to mention that I have tried all the prescriptions for Fibromyalgia non of which worked or worked enough to justify the side effects.

I do also take PEA400 (Palmitoylethanolamide) which has also helped me a fair amount and I would recommend to other Fibromyalgia sufferers.

The excellent results from using the melatonin lotion make me a little emotional because being in constant pain is hard on your spirit and I have finally found some relief and I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge with everyone! Thank you Art!

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Art

[chartist]

Recently a friend told me that their doctor is in the process of testing them to try and determine what is causing swelling of both ankles and feet. The doctor seems to think the problem is either their heart or liver and sent referrals to the appropriate specialists of those organs to try and determine which one may be the problem.

I suggested that in the meantime, they try the melatonin lotion (ML) on their feet and ankles to see if it can help reduce the swelling and pain which was making it very painful to stand on their feet or walk.

Two and a half days later they showed me both ankles and feet. One had very significantly reduced swelling and the other looked almost normal and they told me they were now able to stand and walk on their feet. They are using two sparing applications per day.

Another friend became aware of the first friend's results and decided to try ML on their swollen left ankle and foot . They wrote me today to say that the rheumatologist thought it might be a blood clot in the left leg causing the problem, but testing did not confirm a clot. Their regular doctor and the rheumatologist had no recommendation for the swelling.

They further told me that they had been trying other creams and lotions and decided to try melatonin lotion to see if it would help. They told me that they had purchased the ingredients to make the lotion months ago when I first wrote about it, but had not made the ML until now to test it on their left foot.

They told me that after 5 days of daily application, the swelling had reduced a lot and they were now able to put their tennis shoes and sandals on again. They said there is still a little swelling in the ankle, but it too has reduced.

Art

[MBAnderson]

I thought you might find this interesting

youtu.be/c7fH4o4XA6I?si=JSQ...(Not working as expected?)

[chartist in reply to MBAnderson]

Hi Marc,

You and I discussed this article previously at length in a chat about one year ago and I explained that these two people had not done their research on the latest scientific revelations about melatonin. If you're going to put yourself out there as experts on the topic, you should at least do a minimal amount of reading and research, which they clearly didn't do. If you don't have the time to do the needed research then please don't put out an article that is contrary to almost every noted melatonin researcher and scientist in the world. To put it as simply and concisely as I am able, they didn't do their research and the article title screams that point from the rooftops!

Go back and look in your chats with me and you will see that I debunked their ideas and you wrote them and sent them my remarks for them to reply to which they never did. If you can't find that lengthy chat, I can repost it here in this thread. One year ago, the scientific studies touting the benefits of melatonin for covid were already very abundant and they did not even mention one of those studies. Today, there are even more confirmatory studies showing even more benefit of melatonin for Covid-19 and even long covid. If you are really doing the needed research to write such an article, how do you miss that very important fact of the that time, if you are any type of a researcher worth listening to???

Art

[MBAnderson in reply to chartist]

Dementia must be setting in (me).

[Hotoneii in reply to MBAnderson]

Another quackbusting video yet made without any solid scientific evidence to back it up. A lot of "might" and "could" do this or that weasel words, which should make people suspicious, specially coming from men of science. Those 2 guys have quite a presence on the web and frankly I've used their views and advice on those ocassions when they made complete sense. Unfortunately this is not one of those. Firstly, they have to start looking at published peer reviewed papers, not just unconclussive observational studies, which do not prove causality. But in any case, none, I mean zero zilch ever published report or evidence has stated the LD50 of melatonin, meaning it is unknown, which is impressive considering that humans and lab rodents have been given huge amounts without any major adverse effects ( some diarrhea maby sleep disturbances on some) and only benefits reported. But it cannot kill you nor harm you in any major way. Secondly, they are ignoring the most recent relevant published research on the topic, which comes from Doris Loh and Dr. Russel Reiter. They are not quacks making silly videos on YT, appart from lectures recorded at various venues. Doris extensively illustrates in one presentation the principle of phase separation within the mitochondria, which it is quite fascinating, and it will enlighten listeners as to why melatonin has so many previously suspected, yet unknown until now, beneficial properties. Help with sleeping is not the main role of melatonin, neither it is produced just in the pineal gland but in every single mitochondrion as well. Another misconception by most are the doseages, she goes into great detail explaing this and why some people experience reactions after taking a small amount, indicating they need to incorporate a larger dose depending of their condition and timing. Then there is the concept of feedback loop regulation, which is completely false. Not only taking melatonin by sick people doesn't stop endogenous production, but actually improves it. Then yet, there are the multitude of studies pointing at how it synergises with cancer and other treatments to greatly improve outcomes/ survival. I would expect the doctors doing the research before making these videos would at least spare some of their time reading from the same sources as I and others do; I don't have access to priviledged sources of information, it is all freely available for everyone, and yet on this one I feel we are being duped. Add to this ALL the anecdotical ( yes anecdotical but not everyone is lying, are they?) evidence related on forums such as this one and countless other, the fact it has been banned from the UK and other countries (really, why? who's benefitting?) it just doesn't add up. People who are healthy probably don't need to worry much about it , but for those over 50 and/ or visiting these forums, I would strongly suggest to carefully look at the evidence that's out there. Sorry about highjacking the post, but I've learned something new and perhaps some will learn from this as well

[Fireside15]

This got me thinking. I have 100% levodopa powder from nutravita.

Is there such thing as transdermal application of levodopa?

[chartist in reply to Fireside15]

If it were possible, you would still need a carbidopa pill/capsule. Animal studies have shown that transdermal delivery of levodopa is possible, but not currently available for human use.

Art

[Fireside15 in reply to chartist]

For someone who already has access to a Carbidopa prescription (oral), perhaps there would be a way to use a levodopa lotion in conjunction with ingesting Carbidopa orally. It seems like this could bypass some of the issues that arise with food/protein interfering with C/L effectiveness.

[alexask]

Have finally got round to ordering the ingredients. There's a girl at work who has Fibromyalga and another woman at my wife's work who suffers from migraines.

[chartist in reply to alexask]

If you make some for them, please come back and let us know how it worked for them. Remember to apply sparingly.

Art