Muscle Cramps?

[Carrielam]

I'm following Elliott Overton's B1 therapy and am on week 4 of his protocol using various forms of thiamine totaling 1500 mg a day. I'm noticing improvement in Parkinsons symptoms but have developed very sore and cramping calf muscles for the past couple of days. Since I haven't increased physical activity or injured myself I'm wondering if this could indicate an overdose of thiamine. Has anyone experienced this?

[Boscoejean]

I have always been perplexed about how and why the dose of thiamine has to be so specific. Why is it that when a person takes an amount that is well over the MDR there can be benefits but if the dose is too high there seem to be problematic side effects so I decided to see if I could find any information on how and why this is the case. I did find this but when you read the article it only indicates an imbalance and doesn't really say how and why the excess of thiamine creates the problems.

"What happens if you give too much thiamine?

Thiamine is generally safe. Very high doses may cause stomach upset. Taking any one of the B vitamins for a long period of time can result in an imbalance of other important B vitamins"

mountsinai.org/health-libra....

"Like other B-complex vitamins, thiamine is sometimes called an "anti-stress" vitamin because it may strengthen the immune system and improve the body's ability to withstand stressful conditions. It is named B1 because it was the first B vitamin discovered."

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

I agree Boscoejean,

But also an imbalance in minerals such as potassium, magnesium, calcium, for this reason it is better to take breaks.

Ad nauseam dictum est.

HDT (High Dose Thiamine) was so named after the conversion of the intramuscular injection dose of 100mg thiamine 2 times a week into pills by Dr. C, which is NOT a very high dose.

A probably incorrect conversion made to overcome the problem of the medical prescription needed for the injections in many country in my opinion.

Greetings from Italy

Colosseo

[Boscoejean in reply to Gioc]

Yes somehow I managed to find the videos of the injections fairly early in the time it appeared on the internet

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

What video?

[Boscoejean in reply to Gioc]

dailymail.co.uk/health/arti...

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

Ah Ok videos from dr C interview . Se ti interessa dovrei avere anche un trascrizione comprensibile da qualche parte .

youtu.be/Eqna6NRP4Z4?si=9V4...(Not working as expected?)

[Boscoejean in reply to Gioc]

first one I saw youtube.com/watch?v=SeJTtBr...(Not working as expected?)

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

ok but here we are talking about essential tremor, while in the interview Dr C explains how he arrived at b1 in the PD and I assure you that he is quite enlightening. He doesn't talk about pills, sweet spot, Overdose etc. all alterations in my opinion, introduced after the necessary transition from injections to pills.

No mice 🐭 only PwPs

[Boscoejean in reply to Gioc]

so I went to the video but since I am not versed in the language I can see his enthusiasm but cannot understand the words

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

Yes, I know. The issue is that the doctor here speaks colloquially and with a dialect accent, just as he always has. This makes the automatic translation from YouTube incomprehensible. However, I should have a transcript somewhere, and as soon as I find it, I will send it to you via private message.

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

Ah yes , i remember

these are on essential tremor, the interview was much more technical, for lovers of the scientific genre.

[Boscoejean in reply to Gioc]

In 2018 we did not know whether my husband had essential tremor or Parkinson's because he saw a neurologist in 2017 and he was not willing to say which it was so that was why I was looking for information on essential tremor back then. His diagnosis did not happen until 2021 but could have been earlier but then covid happened and it took several months to get an appointment with a new neurologist since the one he saw in 2017 had retired

[Gioc in reply to Boscoejean]

Ah ok I understand.

[JayPwP in reply to Gioc]

Injectable B1 is what form? Mononitrate? HCL?

[Gioc in reply to JayPwP]

I think it is an Indian product

B1

[Boscoejean in reply to Gioc]

Our doctor did give my husband some injections that combined B12 and thiamine but only 2 or 3 times

[Gcf51 in reply to Gioc]

But, Dr. C did add B1 hcl oral to his protocol.

[Boscoejean in reply to Gcf51]

yes aware of that

[Gioc in reply to Gcf51]

Certainly Gcf51, vitamin B1 also works well orally .

Doctor C never spoke of B1 as a cure, but of a restorative effect on the nervous system affected by the disease. It is also easy to understand the difference between oral and intramuscular injection therapy. Nobody wants injections, I too once asked him if I could switch to pills and what the difference was and he convinced me by saying that the injection form was much more assimilable and direct. But for injections in many countries a medical prescription is required and this would be very limiting given that oral therapy works well in all its formulations pills.

This is because vitamin B1 has always done the same thing since it existed, that is, it contributes to stimulating the energy processes of nerve cells which then repair themselves, i.e. a restorative effect. This has been medical literature for 50 year.

Modern nutritional styles are based on sugar, lots of sugars and poor minerals and vitamins necessary for cells to develop the chemical processes of life that will cause a roller coaster progression of the therapy.

It is very important when using B1 to reduce the intake of sugars and alcohol (reduce not eliminate) and increase the other vitamins and minerals with an increase in fresh vegetables and some supplements, it also requires good and varied nutrition and caloric intake, otherwise you will more often on roller coasters.

Greetings from Italy

[Gioc]

hi Carrielam,

cramps are quite common in PD, I recommend a little slightly acidified magnesium carbonate with apple cider vinegar or lemon juice in the evening, a teaspoon in a glass of hot water. This will help you a lot with b1 and any constipation, also useful for sleeping well. Also make sure you are well fed with fresh vegetables for a good supply of all the other minerals. Try to drink more water.

Simple and effective .

Greetings from Italy

Trevi fontana Roma

[Carrielam in reply to Gioc]

Thanks for the recipe, Gloc - I'll try it tonight for the cramps.

[Gioc in reply to Carrielam]

The sun on HU ( healtunlocked.com) never sets.

Here you are in the right place.

Welcome!

[Gcf51]

I personally don’t like Elliott Overton’s B1 therapy – as far as it applies to Parkinson’s. His advice of taking cofactors to power through too much thiamine may be helpful in cases of paradoxical reactions, but it is much simpler to take a break and try a lower dose as per      Dap1948 's protocol. I feel most “return of symptoms” is due to too much B1 and not paradoxical. Not saying that taking cofactors isn’t useful. And, not saying that in treatment for some conditions; his goals of higher doses of B1 aren’t required.

Furthermore, he did an interview with      Dap1948 and (to my knowledge) didn’t try to claim that a lower dose was the wrong approach.

Please, comment if you found success with Parkinson’s with Elliott's protocol.

There is probably differences in opinion here. Notably. Roy's search for a Therapeutic dose. (Roy is now hidden and I quit Roy's Facebook group over a year ago after he used one of my comments out of context.)