FreedomWavePD Gloves are finally ready - Cure Parkinson's

Cure Parkinson's

25,520 members26,841 posts

FreedomWavePD Gloves are finally ready

CBailey11 profile image
24 Replies

After a few revisions to the Printed Circuit board, and additions and fixes to the software, the FreedomWavePD control box is ready to make. In the github, there are links for all the components, links for two companies that will make the PCB, and finally a YouTube video on how to assemble and program. There is definitely enough info for a techie to make this, hopefully those with less experience will be able to make these as well. The only thing I haven't gone into detail is the actual gloves. There are pictures on the github that show how I made mine, but I'm really not happy with them. I'm now looking to actuators. Finding parts is a challenge but I'll add a parts list and video when I have something. This controller should work with just about any gloves, including F2Heal and WTP. The only limitation is that the driver chips I used expect 8 Ohms. Some drivers/actuators are 4 Ohm, which will require a 4 Ohm series resistor.

github.com/RChadwick7/Freed...

Written by
CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
24 Replies
WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo

I've just taken a brief look. I might have a go at building when I get back from a trip to the UK. My latest version use 4 ohm exciters, but if the power is low, it's not hard to add 4 ohm series resistors

I'll look in more detail once I have caught up a work back-log (very nearly there now)

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to WinnieThePoo

I did some back-of-the-napkin calculations and it looks like 1/4W resistors should be fine. My plan was to tuck a surface mount part inside the housing. I thought about adding resistors on the PCB, but really couldn't find room for through-hole parts. I might look at it again with the intention of adding pads for surface mount resistors.

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to CBailey11

Actually, I just double checked the datasheet. Recommended is 8 Ohm, but overcurrent kicks in at 4 ohm. With turning the voltage down, 4 ohms should work without resistors. I'll add that to the menu.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to WinnieThePoo

My tactor housing has a wire at each end with the long wire running under the box. It shouldn't be hard to run a 1/4 watt resistor there.

If I could solder better I could put a surface mount on the exciter tags

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to WinnieThePoo

Not to discourage you from using a resistor, I just connected the 4 Ohm actuator, it was disappointingly weak. I'm guessing I'll have to program the driver to a higher output voltage. The LRA's I used were 1.8V.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

I was surprised by the low sensitivity of the 9mm exciter when just plugged into the 13mm glove. It's fine at rated power of 1w (i expect to operate at 50% on the volume control at my calculated 1w), but needed nearly full volume with the 13mm box. I am building a circuit with the left and right hand exciters in series, and with 2 10ohm 5W resistors in series. The amp is rated 50w into 8ohm, and if I have done my sums right it drops 1W over each exciter and 2.5 over each resistor. I would probably get away with one 20w resistor, but its a bit close.

The other option is a small resistor box with in and out RJ45s - at least for evaluation purposes

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to WinnieThePoo

I noticed your exciters were 13, F2Heal's is 9. All thing being equal, I thought 9 was smaller. Maybe I'll have to look into 13's.

Also, I had an idea this morning I hope to test soon. Basically take the exciter housing, but instead of an exciter put a piece of Neoprene on it. Attach an LRA to the Neoprene, then an exciter pin to the LRA. I don't know how many mm of travel that would create. So, are there nerves that won't respond to a shockwave through the skin (Vibration), but will respond to physical pressure in the fingertip? That part is giving me a headache.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

I think the FA2's will respond to the vibration you describe, but so will FA1's and SA's. The objective is to stimulate just FA2's because the other mechanoreceptors have different conduction velocities.

So you send a 100ms signal via both receptors and it is received from both but at different times - which confuses the message. At best it makes it a bit blurry and unfocused. At worst it shifts the pre-synaptic signal to a post-synaptic signal and reinforces synchronisation.

if you make a big vibration you will set off lots of signallers, with different velocities across a wide field of neurons

Tass is trying to be focussed and precise. By lightly stimulating a small skin area with a perpendicular compression and decompression at the frequency they are most responsive to he hopes to send a narrow , precise signal without setting off all the neighbouring devices

How much does it matter?

Who knows, but he observed significantly better clinicl performance with a -24db amplitude.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

The gloves I am wearing as I type this use DAEX-13-8SM 13mm devices with a 3W rating. The new Mk5 glove which I have been illustrating the build for use DAEX-9-4Sm rated at 1W. F2heal use the TEAX09C005-8 which is a 9mm exciter rated at 0.5W , and it evidently works well. I know they have carried out measurements of performance

It is however specified with a frequency response of 300-15KHz and 250Hz is outside that range. The resonance frequency of 600Hz is close with a massive impedance spike at that frequency.

The DAEX-9-4Sm has a resonance frequency of 1200Hz - and a frequency response graph starting at 70hz. (Maybe 90-8k +-5db). Hardly an audiofile device but comfortable at 250Hz

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

I'm getting lost on this thread. I've replied elsewhere that the new gloves will use 9mm exciters. They are much neater.

I'd have to see your neoprene idea to comment, but you are looking for a pneumatic drill surrounded by bed mattresses - miniaturised , as the basic design spec

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to WinnieThePoo

That's pretty much it :). If you ever saw an automobile engine running roughly, you might notice the engine will move around a lot because it's mounts are designed to flex. I asked ChatGPT what would isolate, but not absorb vibration. Neoprene was the answer. I assume most closed-cell foams will work. The idea is to put the jackhammer on the mattress. Little to no vibration to the housing or adjacent fingers, but a pin connected to it should be moving. It probably could be mounted on a spring, or a suspended rubber band, but I was looking for something mechanically simple.

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to WinnieThePoo

I think I'll have to try some 13mm drivers. Also, I ordered a simple signal generator and amplifier from Aliexpress to find the resonant frequency of any actuator. While thinking last night I probably printed everything, including the little button that goes on the actuator, with 100% infill. Having mostly infill will make it lighter and should raise its resonant frequency. Have you experimented with different tactor surfaces? A rounded top? Thinner pin to push into the skin better? Maybe a number of small protrusions? I don't know if Dr. Tass specified anything but I'm guessing the surface texture that pushes into the skin could have a significant impact on which neurons get triggered.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

I have tried a few contact points. I now have the nearest I can do to a copy of a CMF contact. The bump in the middle needs not to be too sharp. Dr Tass specifications are in the appendix to the clinical trial - and he uses a CMF

contact adapter for 9mm DAEX-9-SM4 to emulate the contact on an EA CMF device
CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to WinnieThePoo

Do you have the STL?

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

Sure. I'll send it to you. I am in the process of completing some guidance on building. I have one more video to make, then update a parts list then create links for stls of all the 3d printed parts I use.maybe today if the weather is poor (otherwise I'm mending fencing wrecked by wild boar)

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

as for glove design i have given enough comment on this forum about Tass and achieving CR rather than just a soothing tingle. A quick cut&paste...

see neuromods tip#1 thread

That fits with my experience. The need for precision in vibrotactile communication with the brain for vCR is discussed extensively by Dr Tass in his papers. The simple version is that wrong timing, whether by using the wrong pattern, or by unintentionally firing a bunch of other neurotransmitters with different response times, or in adjacent brain cells can lead to the CR making things worse. Chronic synchronisation instead of desynchronisation.

These design choices and their explanations are well documented.

"The majority of mechanoreceptors of the glabrous skin of the human hand are fast adapting (FA), where FA I mechanoreceptors respond to 30–60-Hz vibrations, and FA II mechanoreceptors to 100–300 Hz (Johansson and Vallbo, 1983). Conduction velocities of FA I and FA II mechanoreceptors are in similar ranges (Knibestöl, 1973) but may still be different enough to compromise the vCR activation pattern. Smaller vibration amplitudes might be more beneficial for two reasons: (1) Smaller-amplitude 250-Hz vibrations might stimulate the FA II mechanoreceptors more selectively, which might be favorable in case of larger differences in conduction velocities of FA I and FA II mechanoreceptors; for details, see Tass (2017). (2) Smaller-amplitude 250-Hz vibrations of different fingertips might activate cortical representation areas with smaller spatial overlap, which is more favorable for CR stimulation; for details,

see Tass (2017)."

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to CBailey11

As an update, I attached the exciter to my controller with a 5 Ohm resistor in series. Same result. However, I noticed during setup that it failed. The DRV2605L Does an autocalibrate routine that apparently drives the LRA at it's resonant frequency. If it can't determine that, or there is no LRA, it fails. I'm wondering what the resonant frequency of these exciters, along with the plastic pin, might be? I can manually tell the chip what frequency to drive them, but maybe there's too much mass for ~250Hz? I guess I'll work on the menu tonight instead of playing with tactors.

PWPInnovate898 profile image
PWPInnovate898 in reply to CBailey11

Put the TI driver in open loop mode so you can drive the loads at any frequency you want to target.

PWPInnovate898 profile image
PWPInnovate898

Thank you sincerely for publishing your excellent work! I am part of another DIY team that has been working in parallel on various VCR system and glove developments and testing over the past year. As the system I’m using now uses similar drive electronics as yours (central mcu with per finger haptic driver ICs), I have a couple of quick questions;

- the parts list links to an ERM. Have you also tested with LRAs?

- Does the software support using the TI haptic driver in both open and closed loop modes?

Thanks again for your contributions to the community.

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to PWPInnovate898

Thanks for the thanks :)

I quickly added a link for the vibrators, thought they were LRA. I'm using it with LRA's now, haven't tested with ERM but sure they will work as well. Actually, I just found a chip I can add to these to make this work with Piezo as well, I'll make an add-on board if there's demand.

The software I believe uses closed loop but I intend to have EVERYTHING configurable by the menu. The menu isn't implemented yet, but it's next on my list after making some actuators.

LittleBigPopit profile image
LittleBigPopit

Thank you CBailey11.

Been working on making my own portable version for my Dad and seeing this design really helps. I've been using ERMs and they've been working for my Dad's Parkinson's, but I'd like to make a version that can run ERMs, LRAs, and Audio Exciters. Makes me wonder if the DRV2605 can drive an Audio Exciter. It has audio playback functionality that makes it seem plausible and an Audio Exciter seems very similar in construction to an LRA. Anyways, thank you very much for sharing your work!

CBailey11 profile image
CBailey11 in reply to LittleBigPopit

While I don't think the output of the DRV2605's would be considered audio, the LRA's are very similar to audio speakers. I briefly tried an audio exciter with less than great results. I'm going to experiment more tonight with audio exciters. I'm personally warming up quickly to the F2Heal's design that clips on the finger.

WinnieThePoo profile image
WinnieThePoo in reply to CBailey11

Which LRA? Most LRA's i have seen are like a speaker. An audio driver in a cabinet. But the cabinet is sealed and the vibrations are from the cabinet box. Not the movement of the driver

The CMF used by Tass, and the Teac and Dayton exciters in a pod are completely different. Instead of sealing the driver in a box and getting vibrations from the box, these devices have a hole in the box. The box is not vibrated but serves to damp stray energy, and the moving driver acts directly like the bit of a pneumatic drill on the skin

The Gikfun device is no pneumatic drill (and driven by a square wave?)

PWPInnovate898 profile image
PWPInnovate898 in reply to CBailey11

I’ve driven audio exciters w/ the TI 2605L and it works as designed. Output is a class D that’s PWM-modulated which can drive ERMs, LRAs, and audio exciters at low power levels.

You may also like...

Winnie the Poo's glove building adventure

believe will provide links to a set of videos to show how I made and use my gloves. Nothing fancy,...

Vibration Gloves Question

offset. Obviously the gloves do work to affect our brain functions. It’s only that we need to...

Glove building for fun

had 3 members recently ask me for help building gloves. I have replied to all 3 that I prefer to do...

Vibrating Gloves (Tass)

com/cure-parkinsons/posts/148836810/tass-vibrating-gloves-diy-hacks-ideas-prototypes... Hi, I'm...

Glove Use Question: Activities and Tips

eating? Any hacks to make that work for you? I know I need to ruggedize the actual glove to let...