Propionic acid (sodium propionate) - Does anyone have any experience?

[PDTom]

cell.com/cell/fulltext/S009...

[Ethin]

I have been taking 1000 - 1500mg proprionate / day for the last 3.5 months because of animal studies suggesting that it may be helpful counteracting some forms of polyneuropathy (PNP). (Studies were linked previously on HU, can’t find them right now on the mobile phone.)

During that period, at least my PNP does not seem to have become much worse.

[chartist in reply to Ethin]

Ethin,

Serum Propionic Acid (PA) is known to be low in PD and is correlated with the MDS- UPDRS III score as well as cognition as discussed here :

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

A relevant quote from the link :

' It has been shown that low levels of acetate, butyrate and above all propionate in feces from PD patients are linked to worse MDS-UPDRS part III scores [62,109], and the same is true for serum propionic acid [110]. '

bmcneurol.biomedcentral.com...

Regarding the peripheral neuropathy you may find the following of interest :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Art

[Ethin in reply to chartist]

These are really interesting papers, Art, thank you very much!

Naturally, the studies demonstrate correlations of PD scores with levels of proprionate and other short-chain fatty acids and not mechanisms of causation. Nonetheless I find them a good additional motivation for keeping up the supplemention with PA. Even more so, since I originally developed syptoms of PNP concurrently with those of PD, so I do think it likely that there are common disease pathways as well.

[chartist in reply to Ethin]

That is correct, Ethin, causation is a whole other topic of which only bits and pieces are known, but a lot of clues point to the gut microbiome so working toward homeostasis of the gut microbiome is a worthwhile pursuit imo, and as soon as the finished FMT/PwP study results in Helsinki are released, we will have another significant piece of the puzzle. When I emailed the contact for that study, he said they hope to release those results this Fall and I am anxiously awaiting those results! In the meantime, this is an inkling of what is known about FMT :

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Art

[Ethin in reply to chartist]

Perhaps it would be a possibility to invite Dr. Filip Scheperjans, who I think is the lead of the Helsinki study, for one of the NoSilverBullet4PD seminars that @Michel2020 is kindly organizing, to give an update on the study and the field? (it may have been suggested before)

[chartist in reply to Ethin]

I don't think that idea has previously been suggested.

Regarding his trial results, I hope he is able to make the Fall release as he mentioned in his email.

Most of the cutting edge FMT studies seem to be originating out of China and unfortunately the US seems to mainly concentrate the majority of their FMT studies on C. diff and severe IBS. The one US study utilizing FMT in PwP seemed to be poor at best.

Art

[Gioc in reply to Ethin]

Michel0220 *

[Michel0220 in reply to Ethin]

Thank you very much Ethin for the suggestion. I think it is a very good idea and we will definitely look into it!

[Ethin in reply to Michel0220]

Thank you, Michel! I think this is a very intriguing subject about which some members of this forum already seem to know an amazing amount (yes, that's you, Art :-)) , but which could also be of wider interest.

[Esperanto]

It was Ethin who informed me about German studies on propionate. Initially, it was the promising results in recovery of nerve pathways in peripheral neuropathy.

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

The relevant studies are also mentioned here.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/366...

And the case, proprionate appears to have helped in the recovery of a patient with an acute form of neuropathy:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Later we also found the link to an research to the relationship with MS of the same Bochum neurologists who also simulated the activity of the intestinal bacteria by giving 100 patients suffering from multiple sclerosis propion salt that converts to propionic acid in the intestine. The patients felt significantly fitter, more energetic, more alert - experienced a kind of upswing and were less susceptible to infections. The same seems to be the case with Alzheimer's and PD. So taking propionic acid might mean something for both PD and PN!

swr.de/swr2/wissen/darmther...

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

Art (Artists) also pointed out in a post earlier about bacteria that are known to produce health promoting Short Chain Fatty Acids (SCFAs) in the gut and that in studies it has been shown that PwP are low in at least the three predominant SCFAs, Acetate, Propionate and Butyrate.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/331...

Additional research is underway, but like Ethin, I have raised myself already as a guinea pig and have been taking 2 x 500 mg per day since 2 months. I suspect that there is a beneficial effect on my PD, resulting in a further reduction in my C/L medication. Also with my PN, despite advanced nerve damage, there seems to be some improvement. Placebo effects?

[Ethin in reply to Esperanto]

Thank you very much for the great summary, Esperanto, and very good to hear that the proprionate may have an effect for you!

I make a mental note to follow up with the lead scientist of the clinical study in Bochum, Dr. Anna Lena Fisse, from time to time.

[Esperanto in reply to Ethin]

👍

[Bolt_Upright]

This is interesting. Surprisingly you can't get Sodium Proprionate as a supplement in America (well, you can, but it ships from Germany), but you CAN get 2 pounds of food grade Sodium Proprionate for only $19 at Amazon: Pure Original Ingredients Sodium Propionate (2 lb) Preservative & Mold Inhibitor, Food Grade, Food Additive amazon.com/Propionate-Pure-...

It looks like the same thing (I am prone to error).

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

For $35 you can get 2 months worth of Sodium Proprionate supplements ordered from America and shipped from Germany: VITA1 Propionic Acid - 120 Capsules High Purity Sodium Propionate 500 mg per Capsule, Enough for 2 Months For Natural Formation of Propionic Acid from Sodium Propionate in the Intestinal ibspot.com/products/vita1-p...

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Bolt_Upright]

You can also buy it from Amazon Germany: ZeinPharma Propionic Acid 500 mg 120 Capsules - Sodium Propionate Pure and in Optimal Dosage, Intestinal Flora Capsules, Dietary Supplement Vegan, Laboratory Tested amazon.de/-/en/ZeinPharma-P...

[Ethin in reply to Bolt_Upright]

I have used this: amazon.de/gp/product/B0BRKW... -- made in Germany, not sure if it ships worldwide.

2 capsules a 500mg / day are also what Dr. Fisse and colleagues are using in their ongoing study of the effects of proprionate in CIDP, a form of polyneuropathy. However, their study protocol calls for 3 months of use, which I think is far too short for a chronic condition such as PNP (but is likely determined by the practical constraints of the study).

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Ethin]

The product this links to says, for me, Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

[Esperanto in reply to Bolt_Upright]

There seems to be a propionic acid craze... These may still be available and to ship to the US:

Vita World Propionic Acid 500 mg High Purity Sodium Propionate 120 Capsules Vegan Pharmacy Manufacture

[Gioc in reply to Esperanto]

It will be fashionable on tic toc among bodybuilders or on weight loss diets.😁

[Ethin in reply to Bolt_Upright]

HA, I ordered from this link yesterday, and it still seems to work over here (Germany) this morning. Maybe they don’t ship abroad.

[Buckholt in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Supplement also seems available on Amazon UK, though not a recommendation.

amazon.co.uk/Propionate-Pro...

.

[Gioc in reply to Bolt_Upright]

Hey Bolt_Upright, another mold inhibitor ? But wasn't berberine enough for you?

😀

FYI Sodium Propionate is a metabolite of berberine use.

IMHO no buono!

Un saluto dal lago di Como.

Como lake

[Gioc in reply to Gioc]

* Correction * by AI

Does Barberine favor the production of sodium propionate in the gut?

There is limited scientific evidence directly linking berberine to the production of sodium propionate in the gut. Berberine has been studied for its potential effects on gut microbiota and short-chain fatty acid (SCFA) production, including propionate.

Some studies suggest that berberine may modulate the gut microbiota composition, increasing the abundance of bacteria that produce SCFAs like propionate. However, the specific mechanism by which berberine influences propionate production is not yet fully understood.

It's worth noting that propionate can be produced by gut bacteria through the fermentation of dietary fiber, and various factors, including diet, gut microbiota composition, and individual differences, can influence SCFA production.

If you are interested in the potential effects of berberine on gut health and SCFA production, I recommend consulting scientific literature or discussing with a healthcare professional who can provide you with the most up-to-date and accurate information.

[Bolt_Upright in reply to Gioc]

Thanks Gioc, I have not added Sodium Proprionate (yet). Now that you mentioned it being a mold inhibitor, I need to give it more consideration

[Gioc in reply to Bolt_Upright]

😝 lol

[Bolt_Upright]

Yikes? Propionate and Alzheimer’s Disease frontiersin.org/articles/10...

"Propionate serves important functions in the body. However, excess levels of propionate may play a role in AD. The cause of the excessive levels of propionate could be related to diet, medication use, the commensal microbiota, or potentially related to propionate metabolism. Future studies should aim to clarify the cause of the excess levels. There are multiple mechanisms by which propionate may lead to AD, including glutamate excitotoxicity and hyperammonemia. The mechanisms offer potential points for intervention."

Difference Between Sodium Propionate and Calcium Propionate differencebetween.com/diffe...

[Bolt_Upright]

But then, there is also this: Influence of dietary supplementation of short-chain fatty acid sodium propionate in people living with HIV (PLHIV) onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

Background: Non-AIDS-associated chronic diseases in HIV+ patients have been on the rise since the advent of antiretroviral therapy. Especially cardiovascular diseases and disruption in the gastrointestinal tract have limited health-related quality of life (QoL). Several of those complications have been associated with chronic systemic inflammation. Short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), with propionate as one of the major compounds, have been described as an important link between gut microbiota and the immune system, defining the pro- and the anti-inflammatory milieu through direct and indirect regulation of T-cell homeostasis. The effects of dietary supplementation of sodium propionate (SP) in people living with HIV (PLHIV) have not yet been investigated prior to this study.

Objectives: To investigate the impact of SP uptake among PLHIV and its relevance to improve QoL, the study aimed to investigate metabolic, immunological, microbiome and patient-reported QoL-related changes post-SP supplementation with follow-up.

Methods: A prospective, non-randomized, controlled, monocentric interventional study was conducted in WIR, Center for Sexual Health and Medicine, in Bochum, Germany. 32 HIV+ patients with unaltered ART-regimen in the last three months were included. Participants were given SP for a duration of 12 weeks in the form of daily oral supplementation and were additionally followed-up for another 12 weeks.

Results: The supplementation of SP was well tolerated. We found an improvement in lipid profiles and long-term blood glucose levels. A decrease in pro-inflammatory cytokines and a depletion of effector T cells was observed. Regulatory T cells and IL-10 decreased. Furthermore, changes in taxonomic composition of the microbiome during follow-up were observed and improvement of items of self-reported life-quality assessment.

Conclusion: Taken together, the beneficial impact of SP in PLHIV reflects its potential in improving metabolic parameters and modulating pro-inflammatory immune responses. Thus, possibly reducing the risk of cardiovascular disorders and facilitating long-term improvement of the gut flora.

[Esperanto]

Maybe back to the original question « Does anyone have any experience? » I'm curious!