Frozen shoulder advice please

[jeeves19]

Hi gang. My right arm is the affected side and lately it’s tension and rigidity seem to be spreading to the upper back and up the neck. I stretch these areas but the rigidity always returns. Any tutor solutions? It’s uncomfortable and painful. Maybe this is just one of the expressions of Parkinson’s as it progresses and maybe ‘that’s life’ but if anybody has managed to overcome this, I’d love to hear your message. Thanks in advance 🙏😊

[Smokeypurple]

Hi Jeeves If you have access to a neurophysio through your neurology team I would start there. They are highly trained in noticing the nuances of movement and non movement and the differences side to side and helped me notice things I was doing which I hadn't realised.

Shoulder and upper arm pain was a very early symptom for me. Still there but under control (for now). For me it's a mix of rigidity and under use - leading to more rigidity and under use. Stretching is part of it but the under use is difficult to monitor. I've just borrowed some Smovey rings and am doing YouTube videos to try them out - I'll let you know how I get on...

[jeeves19 in reply to Smokeypurple]

A very helpful and generous response. Thanks a bunch. These days I’m lucky if I get to see my Parkinson’s Nurse but I suppose that I can dream about seeing a neurophysio one day 😂. Take care.

[sothernman2017]

This might sound basic, but I had a similar sensation when without realizing I was falling asleep on the sofa on my affected arm...

[Smokeypurple in reply to sothernman2017]

That's true southernman I forgot - I also recently wondered if I I sleep on it differently due to less mobility at night. I try to move it out from under before going to sleep on my side.

[WinnieThePoo]

My GP recommended red wine and ibuprofen. Sadly he has now retired. A tragic loss 😢

[Despe in reply to WinnieThePoo]

Winnie, good advice! Especially Ibuprofen as it is anti-inflammatory and PD is an inflammation of the brain.

[GymBag in reply to Despe]

PD is not inflammation of the brain

[Despe in reply to GymBag]

n.neurology.org/content/76/...

[GymBag in reply to Despe]

In your link, They claim that taking Ibuprofen may reduce the risk of getting the disease . Put it on the list with chocolate and smoking and coconut oil. You changed it to "PD is an inflammation of the brain" WRONG

PD is NOT an inflammation of the brain.

[Despe in reply to GymBag]

The scientific literature (link) calls PD NEUROINFLAMMATION.

[SilentEchoes in reply to GymBag]

I beg to to differ.

[laglag]

Hi Jeeves. Have you tried magnesium oil or magnesium supplements? Or, my favorite for stiffness and rigidity is Emergen C.

[jeeves19 in reply to laglag]

I bought some Emergenc Debbie but I stopped taking it as my fatigue seemed much improved. Maybe I’d better get back onto it! 😂

[ddmagee1]

I’m sorry to hear about that! My left side, is my mostly affected side, where I get rigidity, muscle stiffness, tension etc., so I can relate! Over 15 years ago, when I was having milder symptoms, but not yet diagnosed with Parkinson’s, I had several episodes of falling and my left arm going out of my shoulder socket! That is very painful when it happens. I developed frozen shoulder, and had to go to physical therapy, and they gave me range of motion exercises, along with the therapist working my arm, and shoulder. Doing the stretching, range of motion exercises, SLOWLY, was very helpful. When I ran into too much pain and stiffness, I had to be patient, and take the time to gradually improve my range of motion, with my arm, working the stiff muscles, and moving my shoulder. Using Ibuprofen or Aleve in small amounts helped. It took a long time, but it helped. Now, I have, almost, the full range of motion back, but not completely! There are range of motion exercises listed, under Google, when bringing up frozen shoulder therapy, so I would think you could look that up. It’s a long process! I use resistance straps ( the Tom Brady exercise routine ), to help with exercising most muscles, and range of motion exercises, that does help me with stiffness. Traditional weightlifting exercises I have tried to use, previously, do not help much, so the resistance cable/ strap technique, used slowly, does help, with my stiffness, cogwheel rigidity. It is not a magic bullet! I have to work at this, a bit every day, so that I can avoid my shoulder freezing up again! Good luck and hang in there, Adam!

[jeeves19 in reply to ddmagee1]

Thanks so much Doug. Yes I’ve been on YouTube and have decided on a plan of action using Shoulder Pulley Systems and rubber bands. Should be fun! 😂

[chartist]

Hi Jeeves,

Have you tried this topical gel for pain relief? It's a good one and it doesn't smell or feel sticky or greasy and spreads on very smoothly and dries quickly.

amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HLR7PPZ/...

They have the same thing here in the US, but they use a slightly different name for it hear. If it relieves the pain enough, you can then do a multitude of stretching exercises for your shoulders. These exercises are heavily illustrated on YouTube such as these :

youtube.com/results?search_...

Good luck!

Art

[jeeves19 in reply to chartist]

Thanks very much Art. Take it easy. 👍😊

[Zella23]

I ve gained a very painful shoulder from saving my self from falling off a chair I hadn’t quite sat carefully on. Put my left arm out and wrenched the shoulder to add to the pain of knee replacement. Strong painkillers, diamorphine helped as I had these for my knee, stopped those after 5 weeks and the agony in shoulder got worse!

I m now using the Volatrol gel, 12 hours( as described by Art) plus heat and gentle movements and stretches. Still uncomfortable by the evening but slight improvement. Hope you find something that helps Jeeves.

By contrast my husband (with PD) has had 8 steroid injections in his back for pain relief and they seem to be working well at the moment! He is walking without pain!!

[FawnLily]

I had frozen shoulder in 2017 and that was probably my first symptom of Parkinson’s which wasn’t diagnosed until this year. I got two steroid injections in my shoulder and the the pain never came back after the 2nd shot. I tried acupuncture and physical therapy which didn’t help the pain. Physical therapy exercises have helped with range of motion and I have to keep doing them to this day. My range of motion is not 100% but it’s close enough.

[JustJeff]

I had a Frozen shoulder for 18 months very painful and turned out to be the very start of Parkinsons symptoms but not initialy recognised as such...

[jeeves19 in reply to JustJeff]

I had it too to start, then it went and now it’s back 😕

[Husbandsupporter]

Your question and issue seems very relevant to a great number of PD people. My first question to you: when was the last time you had a good. Cranial sacral massage? If it's been a long time I emphasis how important regular massage is!!! Your shoulder issue isn't just localized to your shoulder. The source is in your back: probably between your shoulder blades and even reaching around to your armpits.

Do you do any stretching exercises? Deep breath in through your nose. Raise your arms only as much as you can, release the breath through your mouth gently.

Anything you can do to " juice the joints " (a favorite line i use for instructing).

Wave your arms front and back: Small, delicate movements at first. Find good stretches for your upper back, keeping your head up and facing front all the time!! Every time you drop your head, you're adding pressure to your back by pulling those muscles.

The body is an amazing "machine" Parkinson's disrupts the natural movement but you can, repeat, CAN get mobility and ease back. Don't just settle for anti- inflammatory medicine, heat and ice. You can do this.

Keep us posted.

Massage: a board certified massage therapist please, and better yet, one that is trained in cranial sacral.

Take good care

[jeeves19 in reply to Husbandsupporter]

Lovely post. Thanks but wish I had the ££ to see a cranio fairly regularly 🤔. But I’ll stretch for sure.

[Resano in reply to Husbandsupporter]

Chiropractor Craig Weiner also uses Tapping for physical symptoms such as shoulder pain:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=uPiLp...(Not working as expected?)

[Resano in reply to Resano]

Only if the shoulder is not too stiff, you may also consider a cheap hands-free massage against the wall with the help of a golf ball. See how:

golfballmassage.com/golf-ba...

[Missy0202]

Frozen shoulder is just awful. I had it on both sides a year apart. I was diagnosed with PD a year later. They say it is not related to PD, but I think otherwise. I tried everything... really. The physio exercises and stretches as painful as it is.. is the most effective treatment. The first time I spent a bundle on therapies, and the second I just followed the protocol and they resolved in the same amount of time. I also found that an anti inflammatory diet helped for sure. Perseverence like everything else! Good luck

[jeeves19 in reply to Missy0202]

Thanks Missy 🙏

[Hidden]

Maybe Miracle Botanicals or Revive Copaiba or Palo Santo essential oil diluted in Cliganic virgin oil and applied on area or raw goat milk,if you can not get raw then Meyenberg pasteurized goat milk drink it room temperature...eating frozen or fresh cherries, cherry juice, Sports Research tart cherry supplements and active manuka honey 12+ or higher may help, turmeric cinnamon tea,FGO turmeric powder on food, MUJEZA turmeric Ceylon cinnamon honey.. FGO German chamomile tea sweetened with pure maple syrup,diffusing Maple Holistics lavender essential oil or applying in the sole of feet

[Isthistheone]

Hi Jeeves sorry you developed ADHESIVE CAPSULITIS (frozen shoulder). Many PWP will get this very painful malady. I'll be starting my m12th year of living with PD in August. I'm not sure if back 15 years ago frozen shoulder was thought to be a precursor of PD. My orthopedist wanted to shoot me up. I never cared much for needles so I said no thanks. I woke up one morning with ADHESIVE CAPSULITIS with no apparent cause and effect. I used to swim 3 days a week back then. My shoulder was progressively worse after each workout. I used to have a very high tolerance to pain. Ortho sent me to PT, who told me swimming would help the most. Constant stretching that you get from swimming was my medicine, so back to the pool I went. My bout with frozen shoulder lasted a year. Good luck Jeeves, I wish you the best!

[jeeves19 in reply to Isthistheone]

Thanks for that. Guessing I’ll have to join a gym with pool then!

[OptimusPrime]

Hi Jeeves, could go with the long story but will opt for end result after 4 years of medical journey....finally did phy therapy for 3 months with an ART(Active Release Therapy) certified PT that got me loose and able again. Now do almost anything I want sports or yard, but suffer pain that night and next day unless I use a TENS unit for as long as needed, Chirp wheel that levels knotted muscles running down beside the spine(need to be able to balance....google and watch video...easier than it looks), and CBD rub(best so far is from Vital Plan) or less expensive Arnicare gel. Seems the sum total gets me back to doing stuff rather than couch management.

[jeeves19 in reply to OptimusPrime]

So far my therapy is a cheap hot water bottle 😂

[chartist in reply to jeeves19]

Jeeves,

A hot water bottle will help the muscles to relax and that can feel good now, but it can increase inflammation which will feel bad later. Icing can reduce the inflammation but can sometimes increase the stiffness, but you generally feel better later. Icing is very antiinflammatory, think of professional athletes, sports figures and boxers. they all ice the joints that get worked hard. Pro basketball players ice their knees, ankles and backs, boxers ice their necks between rounds, footballers/soccer players/ice hockey players ice everything! Inflammation increases muscle and joint damage. If you want to continue to use heat, apply Volatrol before the heat to reduce the inflammation level or alternate hot and ice treatments every 20 minutes.

Art

[jeeves19 in reply to chartist]

Blimey! 😂

[delboy381]

I managed with intermittent fasting overnight and blended juices for a while 16/8 to get rid of a stiff neck, pain in Pectoralis Major. I still have rigidity in my affected right arm.

P.M

[Hidden]

Testimonials on cherry juice for frozen shoulders and more nomeatathlete.com/tart-cher...

[blackbear701]

I had frozen shoulder; it was very painful and nothing at all helped: not ibuprofen, Tylenol, etc., pain relief creams, both prescription and over the counter; heat; physical therapy; the pulley system; I tried them all. Finally, I got an X-ray guided steroid injection on the affected shoulder. Haven't had a problem since then (2 years ago).

[gginto]

Hey Jeeves! I've been having issues with my left shoulder area (rotator cuff/affected shakey arm) and have been seeing a great physiotherapist- she has worked on it and given me stretches to take home which help a lot.Also i do weight training about 5 days/week in the evening, so I really push and USE the shoulder muscles- I'm certain this helps a lot.

I take curcumin supplements and Fish oil (omega 3) and MCT oil for the brain and joints. Have you tried this B1 that is all the rage??

[jeeves19 in reply to gginto]

Thanks for the recommendation Greg 😊

[Godiv]

Oh no so sorry. I ended up having a rotator cuff problem that was about to get into the frozen shoulder stuff. Lots of physical therapy and I had some dry needling done also by the physical therapist. I finally got so I could raise my arm or put a coat on without screaming in pain. So don’t let it go too long if you can help it, because I don’t wanna get into the frozen shoulder situation where you can’t even move it. I hope you can get some relief. Also, what smoky purple said makes good sense — The pain may be caused by something other than the shoulder area. Anyway I hope you can get to the bottom of it.

[jeeves19 in reply to Godiv]

Thanks Godiv

[Godiv in reply to jeeves19]

Oh hey, I forgot to tell you about somatic exercises. I can’t seem to get the link because I’m a dummy with this stuff but there’s a YouTube video by essential somatics for neck and shoulder pain. These are really small subtle movements; I just bought her online files for full body somatic stuff and I really like it. It’s not really exercise but it seems to reset things somehow.

[Painture]

HelloLook for vagus nerve exercises. Look at youtube's Sukie Baxter's videos, especially the one for anxeity. The exercises she teaches for looking very directly to one side and then the other releases my upper back and shoulder tension, and my husband's front neck tension, (

he has parkinson's) and my daughter's back pain from mild scoliosis.

[Godiv in reply to Painture]

That’s really interesting. I just bought a book on vagus nerve stimulation. I have to check out the YouTube videos too.

[Painture in reply to Godiv]

Yes, and I forgot to say that my husband with Parkinson's also said the ear manipulation exercises she has in her you tube videos helped him, too.

I read a few books, and understanding how the vagus nerve affects the rest of the body can be interesting, and there are some theories out there that bacteria or viruses are traveling via the vagus nerve to the brain and causing Parkinson's and/or other problems. I have no idea if these theories are being studied yet....but interesting, in light of my families experiences.

Good luck!

[Godiv in reply to Painture]

Thanks! It is interesting isn’t it? And it sounds dirty too LOL. I also read that there is a device they’re testing for vagus nerve stimulation. Of course the device is not on the market but it’s supposed to help the physical symptoms of Parkinson’s. Or it has so far in the testing. Oh OK that’s right some of the devices attach to the ear. But in this case they were studying Motor impairment rather than the bacteria/virus aspect. That sounds like something that bears studying for sure also.

[sharron2]

My husband had wonderful improvement in his rotator cuff impingement from ultrasound treatment that broke up the scar tissue that had formed due to reduction of shoulder swing. It wasn't covered by insurance(in the US) so it cost about 100.00 per treatment. Three treatments later he was almost totally pain free when extending his arm. The treatment was somewhat painful, but was only a 5 minute treatment. Maybe it could help you.

[Hidden]

I too experienced this, first in one shoulder then the other and it was a few years of rehab before I could make pain free movements. I tried many things to relieve the discomfort and pain but it was a combination of things that helped me get better and the Jacuzzi was the best. I would get in it for ten minutes sometimes three times a day and do arm exercises as the water was moving and I swear that cured me. I still have to be very careful using my shoulders but at least I can brush my hair again and get dressed unassisted.

[justhavefun2]

Jeeves, I read your post few days ago and I keep thinking that maybe it would be a good to get an x-ray on your shoulder? I have osteoarthritis and rotator cuff issues that are unrelated to Parkinson’s. I have all the same symptoms that you do, too. Hope you feel better soon!

[jeeves19]

Thanks. I was operated on when I first had PD symptoms. I suggested to the doctor that I thought I had Parkinson’s and he snorted that he doubted it. They operated anyway and it was a fairly pointless exercise. Of course I went on to be proven right. You may indeed have arthritis, but sometimes they find what they go looking for and I would imagine that every adult has degradation of the joints. They told me that i definitely had rotator cuff issues but it seems odd that this began at the same time as my PD. 🤔

[EJMo]

I tried for ages to get my shoulder consultant to talk to my Parkinson’s consultant but the UK system is just not set up like that. I took Parkinson‘s information to my shoulder consultant. I’m not sure if he ever read it but I am absolutely convinced that rotator cuff problems/frozen shoulder are prevalent in Parkinson‘s patients. I had unguided steroid injections which were useless and an ultrasound guided one which may have helped. I found a shoulder physio and the exercises she gave me seem to help more than anything. I’m now largely back to normal (I’ll never get 100% movement back) and think continuing a broad exercise program helps.

[jeeves19 in reply to EJMo]

Good response. Hmmm.......I’m seeing a physio privately currently. She says that I don’t really have a frozen shoulder, more like all the supporting structure that surrounds it have jammed up. She’s sensibly given me some exercises and mostly I’m sitting around playing guitar all day. We men are such morons at times. But you’re dead right re. the exercise. I just need to up my game and vary it and get off the stationary bike more often. Dancing is good too.

[Annieartist in reply to jeeves19]

See what I mean about this forum- what a great thread!

Sign up to figure8 with Jana - she’s fabulous ( I know I’m not doing it right now but it is great and following routines food for cognition) give it a try!

[Kia17]

Check your shoulder for trigger points. Fix them and your shoulder will be functional again.

[SilentEchoes]

I use CBD oil for pain relief and it's anti inflammatory. I have had two torn rotator cuffs and a frozen shoulder. Chiropractic care helped me. A cortisone shot can help too. I personally avoid NSAIDS and manage my life holistically. It's important to rehab and a chiropractor can support you as well as a physical therapist. Don't know much about your health care system and what you have access to. I have autonomic dysfunction and sleep on my back with about 30° head elevation - takes a lot of stress off the shoulders.

Hope this helps.

SE