Neurological Plasticity

[AaronS]

I have read about putting your brain/body into fight or flight mode thru exercising at certain levels. I have also read this can stimulate the brain to potentially engaging in neurological repair, I'm also reading about neural plasticity that can work along this theory as well. Bit of a deep rabbit hole in research and it's predominantly theory but it lines up with Korean scientists who say the dopamenic neurons/cells are dormant instead of dead as thought by the general neurological cabal.

Blah blah blah..... it means you can make your brain engage in forming new neurological pathways and effectively repair itself over time.

Think of it like this- main roads from the nearest big city to your home, is blocked (big truck crash) and you are traveling home from the big city, your GPS rerouted you thru the countryside, potentially longer but it gets you home. The truck crash is still there, but a potential work around was achieved

Your brain like the GPS has and is still continually creating new neurological pathways in your brain thru learning and repeated yet simple actions yet with you contentiously doing said activity, not just going Into automatic mode but completely reviewing every single action.

I'm no scientist however I don't buy the rhetoric that the dopamenic neurons are dead, when cells are continuing to rejuvenate completely within your body every 7years or so, for example think if you cut yourself you bleed-scab-heal, no this doesn't extend to cutting of a limb or severities like that. But how can just the Dopamenic neurons die? And they dont/cant/ won't repair like all other cells within the body?

However you were not born with Parkinson's and at sometime in your life there were changes, potentially chemically induced potentially stress induced or familial, but the general consensus is it's idiopathic-which means "we don't know " why you got Parkinson's. And when you read about those that have "beat" it it's generally thru simpler repetition type activities.

I would just like to get any further opinions, I'm not a Dr or scientists , in fact I'm a carpenter by profession. I have a mechanical type mindset and tend to think linear and with a logical type progression

If I can provide insight a little bit further with a personal twist: when I'm off meds aka off times, i get a ball, my right arm and hand are both cramped and stiff, the ball is bounced out of my left hand then picked up by my right stiff hand, bit crap at the activity for the first 10 bounces however very quickly the process becomes easy, reflexes return and I can bounce the ball off the ground from hand to hand and it becomes as if the Parkinson's affected arm just operates normal, simple repetitious activity done continuously, however it's good and I feel great doing it and less affected by the Parkinson's

Has anyone else read about this? Or have thoughts that they like to share

[JohnPepper]

7 Years is a long time during which Pd can destroy a large number of aglial cells. Your body produces a magic substance called GDNF (Glial Derived Neuritrophic Factor}. Glia; ce;;s are the cells that manage the dopamine production and I think fast walking produces the GDNF, but I could be wrong! My dopamine production is very good these days, due to fast walking every second day.

The beauty about fast walking is that even if it doesn't produce any GDNF , your body is getting fitter and everything that goes with that is a plus factor.

[Hidden in reply to JohnPepper]

How do you measure your dopamine production?

[AaronS in reply to Hidden]

Hi Chris

I don't know of a way to do this other than reducing or even not relying whatsoever on C/L meds

[JohnPepper in reply to Hidden]

Hi Chris. I can't measure it but scientists can measure it. I know it is there because my symptoms get better, which to me can only mean I have more dopamine.

[AaronS in reply to JohnPepper]

Hi John

Your book started my thought process on this, I knew you would weigh in mate, thank you

[JohnPepper in reply to AaronS]

Enjoy and then start taking action!

[AaronS in reply to JohnPepper]

Hi again John,

I just want to respectfully challenge your comment on the death of neurons. Just to clarify a point I made, it's regarded that all cells within your body are renewed completely over the 7 year period not a literal 7 year time between cell renewal.

Using your example, if you only have a set number of cells, and at thr time of one's diagnoses of PD, it's said you have lost up to 70% of those cells. If those cells are Dead than only God can help you now, because dead is dead, no coming back. However because you did what you did with the fast walking you have either done one of the following:

Made new cells

Boosted your remaining 30% of cells left

Awoken dormant cells

Dead cells are Dead and can't be brought back unless I'm missing something.

Wouldn't you say your example like others works in my theory? Your Parkinson's is still likely present however thru your activities you have somehow made a work around of some sort within your brain? (Being it's neurological in origin)

[Hidden in reply to AaronS]

If we accept the 7 year regeneration premise as true, and the reality is that it's more complex than that, then we should probably accept that it might not be the case in unhealthy individuals.

i.e why would you assume that the 7 year rule holds true in people with degenerative diseases? Perhaps a trait of the disease is that the new cells don't grow, so when the 7 year old cells die (or do whatever cells do at the end of the 7 years), there are no new ones grown to replace them? After all , things not working as they should is kinda what a disease is...

Re John , the most likely explanation (and far more likely than him having discovered a GDNF mechanism) is that he does not have and never had PD. He acknowledges in his book that 25% of PD dx are false positives, yet won't accept that he may be one of them. His argument is that 4 neuros can't all be wrong, but if his symptoms resemble those of PD, then it's actually quite likely or even probable that he would be incorrectly dx by 4 different doctors because they are all relying on the same (admittedly confusing) symptom presentation. He claims years of frustration at not being taken seriously yet won't get a DATscan. Surely any reasonable person in his position would get a DATscan if they were as passionate as he is about spreading his message?

In much more brevity, and without entering the debate about neuron death:

"But how can just the Dopamenic neurons die? And they dont/cant/ won't repair like all other cells within the body?"

1. that's what PD is, there's a a deficiency...

[AaronS in reply to Hidden]

I understand where your coming from Chris, and your points are right. My wondering is more around the creating of the right environment for your body to do what it naturally does.

Correct an unhealthy person will have issues with cell regeneration however if their arm breaks or they cut their skin or they tear a muscle, the body automatically starts to repair. Take depression as an example, neurological..yes, chemically unbalanced....yes. I've had 3 people I know cure their depression with just going to the gym regularly.

With the 7 year thing, I was just building my theory around the fact that your body wataught nts to somehow heal itself where it can.

Here's the kicker from my research, Parkinson's technically falls under the category of a syndrome, a disease essentially has a set pattern and will generally perform the same way in each person, where as my version of Parkinson's undoubtedly is different to yours (I might be wrong, however my research taught me this) syndromes show similar traits in it's victims however like a choose your own adventure type book getting to the end point may not be the same for each individual.

I welcome your thoughts , like I said I'm just thinking out loud

[JohnPepper in reply to AaronS]

Agreed! I am under the impression that Pd does not necessarily KILL the Glial brain cells. If not, those cells can be brought back as healthy cells.

Taking your 30% situation. GDNF either repairs or REPLACES Glial cells, and as such they could return to 100% level. I don't think that mine have by any means but they have been at the level where I have enough cells to live without the need of medication. When I get back to that level and am not doing the fast walking I will continue to get worse.

Interestingly, most, not all, of my movement symptoms have improved to a level where I don't need medication. The other symptoms that have not been reversed I am happy to live with as they don't make life too uncomfortable, like insomnia, constipation, depression, writing etc.

I have avoided going on the Levodop trip since two years after diagnosis. I don;t have any of those side effects, which are mainly dyskinesia and other problems which I know nothing about.

[Despe in reply to AaronS]

"Awoken dormant cells"

Exactly, cells do not die, they hibernate. What happens to millions of dead cells? They just sit there? If something is dead, it deteriorates, decomposes. Shouldn't that be poisonous to the brain?

Logical questions, although Dr. John Berg has an excellent video in which he explains why neurons do not die but hibernate.

[AaronS in reply to Despe]

I completely agree, somehow there must be a way to awaken these cells on a more semi permanent basis, at least to minimize progression or slow it down greatly. I just don't buy that all the neurons die, and no other ones in the body do to the same level as the Dopamenic neurons .

[MichelleHarris]

Yes have you heard of Wim Hoff ( the ice man) and the amazing feats he has achieved through stressing the body through (breathing techniques and cold showers) and has been able to teach others to do the same x

[park_bear]

I would like to confirm your observation that simple repetitive activity reawakens impaired abilities. In my cases it is about walking – when I first start out it is quite a chore, but after an hour of exercise I am walking much more easily.

[AaronS in reply to park_bear]

I would also imagine the slow continuous movement of quigong will also assist, its that slow continuous conscious movement that would retrain the brain

[park_bear in reply to AaronS]

Qigong is widely misunderstood to be a kind of gentle physical exercise. In Chinese, "Qi" or "Chi" refers to subtle energy and "gong" means cultivation. The purpose of the physical movements in Qigong is to assist in the cultivation of the subtle energy.

Back to the subject of exercise – the observation Parkinson's motor impairment responds positively to exercise does call for a deeper medical investigation of why this occurs. In any case it is clear that exercise is a vital prescription for treatment of Parkinson's.

[Hidden in reply to park_bear]

I took my PD symptoms to a TCM practitioner and he dx me as lacking in chi. He prescribed me actupuncure and herbs, which is what they prescribe for literally everything. I haven't been back.

My doctor (my actual medical doctor, not the TCM 'doctor')made the good point that one has really no clue about what is actually in the herb packet. Even if you can conclude that the herbs might provide some benefit- and I doubt it- you don't know if what they say is in the packet is actually in the packet, and you don't know what contaminants are in there either.

[kaypeeoh]

"fight or flight mode" is a matter of elevating heart rate. At high rates the body pumps out cortisol which elevates blood sugar which is the best energy source for running away from danger.

[Zella23]

I m convinced that exercise definitely helps my husband with Parkinson’s. He still needs the meds but hasn’t increased Levadopa much since dx but has added in Rasigiline and Amantadine for dyskinesia.

Last year he benefitted greatly by going for a week to European Parkinson's centre in Italy where he had 1:1 exercise and physical therapy. His mobility improved and he has tried to carry on with exercising back here in London. It clearly isn’t the same without 1:1 help by an expert in PD but still carrying on exercising with a video they gave him, as well as going to the gym.

Since lockdown he has walked about 3 miles each day and takes a tennis ball to bounce and catch, while walking. I noticed the other day when he let the ball go his reactions were really fast in retrieving it! Odd he can move like grease lightening at times. He says his legs feel weak when walking but still carries on. Occasionally they re not as weak - can’t find what would improve this!

Doesn’t have off times with meds and frequently forgets them unless he has his alarm on.

[AaronS in reply to Zella23]

Hi Zella, I feel this example boosts my theory, issues still there but thru consistent (big keyword here) repertive simple tasks the brain might get retrained to build bit of a work around, thanks for your example

[evelyn05]

Be sure you read the book "Fighting Parkinson's and Winning" by Howard Shifte....reinforces the need for repetition. Also good readings and YouTube videos by Dr. Norman Doidge on neuroplasticity.

[LeuraPark]

I posted this a couple of years ago and I have no idea how valid it is. Yet, I do like his approach and it seems to me that he might appeal to you as well.

youtu.be/D524DVnSqXU(Not working as expected?)

[kaypeeoh]

Good analogy. The body can do much to help heal the brain. I think the brain has collateral pathways to draw on. I was supposed to see a movement specialist to help me with my balance but since COVID everything is on hold. I assume the specialist will draw on mind/body exercises.

[NanCyclist]

Be sure to go to the archives and check out the posts on Pedaling for Parkinson's where are you will find extensive writings on Nuro plasticity and results from high cadence cycling.