I have been 'attacked' on this site for presenting information that goes against what we've been told by the Feds and media. I believe my information is correct. I might change my mind later. Here is an interesting quote from Steve Jobs.
Here's to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes... the ones who see things differently -- they're not fond of rules... You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things... they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.
Steve Jobs
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bepo
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You know that the anti-vaccine folks have lost Robert De Niro as a spokesman as he withdrew this documentary from his film Festival by saying he no longer believes it.
I know. Who knows why. I don't know if he were ever a spokesperson. I don't understand why you wouldn't look at vaxxed. It's well done and informative. I thought you said you were open.
I'll try to watch it bepo, but as I've explained before, I examined this issue quite carefully several years ago (10) when I had a son-in-law who declined to vaccinate his 2 children (my 2 grandchildren) and as a consequence, they were prevented from going to school. Everyone in the family did a lot of research and we passed a lot of links back and forth. Eventually he was persuaded, admitted he was wrong, the kids got vaccinated and admitted to school.
PS. This whole issue could be easily resolved if anyone who believes vaccinations are generally harmful would produce the scientific data. Do you have any links to such data??
I looked rather closely into the question of vaccine safety last year. I used to be decidedly pro-vaccine. Now I'm very much in the middle. I think that vaccines can work, and can be important tools for public health. But there can be tradeoffs. And sometimes they don't work as cleanly or perfectly as we might think. If you look at the details, and the ecology of illnesses, in SOME cases, they can bring about unintended negative consequences. The chicken pox vaccine, for example. It can result in more people developing shingles later in life, which is a more dangerous and scarring illness.
Perhaps the most concerning think about vaccines is the use of aluminium adjuvants. Aluminum is often injected to stimulate a greater response from the immune system. It is also a toxin, and can cause inflammation, and potentially neurological damage. And here's the thing: it hasn't really been shown to be safe. It hasn't really been tested--despite being used for decades.
If you bring this up in some forums, people will say "you eat more aluminum than gets injected in vaccines." However, this is misdirection, because the absorption rate is much higher for injection.
When vaccines are tested for adverse effects, they are generally compared to controls ("placebos") which have all of the other stuff in them, like the aluminum, but just not the key antigen (the virus component or whatever). This means that any adverse effects due to the aluminum won't be detected, because they are in both the test vaccines and the controls. In the trials for the HPV vaccine, however, a portion of the tests were against true controls, and the people with the true placebo had fewer side effects.
If you like, I can try to dig up a reference or two on the aluminum issue. However, you are wrong in saying that it will "easily resolve this whole issue". The issue is complicated, and we are NOT served by a polarized debate where people on either side are immediately dismissive of the other. We need more careful thinking and less hyperbole.
What is frustrating is that there could be solutions to specific problems, if we actually were willing to look at the details of the issues. I've read that there are potential alternatives to aluminum adjuvants (particularly calcium phosphate). But few people are taking this issue seriously, so we're not looking into it.
A close friend of ours had their first son vaccinated many years ago. He was due for his booster at 12 months old, but because he had a cold, it was delayed until he was 14 months.
By this time he was walking and talking. He had his booster and within hours he had a fever, was hospitalized for a few days and could no longer walk or talk. Later he was diagnosed with autism.
His parents KNOW this was a reaction to the immunization.
One of the concerns about vaccines and aluminium is the sheer number of vaccines that people (and especially infants) receive. Infants are developing neurologically and may be at greater risk.
Aluminum adjuvants have not really been demonstrated to be safe, but we are on even less certain ground when it comes to the issue of cumulative exposure.
There is even a (very) tenuous connection to Parkinson's disease. Scientists have discovered that some people have brains that are chronically in an inflamed state. Inflamed brains have microglial cells activated and aggressive, and this can lead to cell death. Parkinson's disease may to some degree be an illness related to inflammation and an autoimmune response.
Repeated injections lead to repeated triggering of inflammation.
Now I'm concerned that it sounds like I'm saying that vaccines may cause PD, but I'm NOT saying that.
What I am saying is that there are issues and tradeoffs, and that vaccines may not be universally benign. And that it's worth looking into the relationship between vaccines and inflammation.
If I were a parent, I would probably have my child vaccinated, but I would try to space out the vaccinations more, so that there is less early-infant exposure to aluminum.
Some would argue that that isn't enough. Maybe your friend's child was harmed by the vaccine. Others would say that it's a coincidence. But this is far from a unique case.
I really wish we'd make a concerted effort to replace aluminum adjuvants with calcium phosphate or something else.
ElliotGreen, I respect your opinion, but I'm going to conform to the position of EVERY major health institution's position on the matter, but would like to see scientific studies you refer to. Harvard Medical School says, "...no one has yet found a scientifically sound and robust link between vaccines and autism." (I know I'm not qualified to evaluate the competence of a study. Instead I rely on the consensus of the scientists from all over the world who evaluate the studies, all of whom agree on this issue -- that vaccinations/immunizations do not cause autism and are wise and prudent for parents.)
Whether vaccinations are harmful or not is a separate issue from whether or not there is a conspiracy within the healthcare community to force vaccinations on the general public (in countries all around the world) because of their financial self-interest. So, can we agree there is no conspiracy here?
This article seems fair and balanced to me.
From Harvard Medical School. I believe the medical community and scientists at Harvard researched this issue comprehensively before publishing the following, as did the Mayo Clinic below this and as would every major, reputable healthcare institution, essentially publishes the same position.
"This argument was popularized by British surgeon Andrew Wakefield [20], “the father of the anti-vaccine movement” in his 1998 article in The Lancet [21] that claimed a link between autism and the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. The article describes a study of twelve children who had begun exhibiting symptoms of autism, as well as gastrointestinal issues, shortly after receiving the MMR vaccine [22]. The paper, and Wakefield’s bold assertions to the media of an MMR-autism link, sparked immediate controversy and quickly became a rallying point for parents opposed to the MMR vaccine, or vaccinations in general.
Within months of the Wakefield study, other scientists conducted independent investigations, which failed to corroborate Wakefield’s findings [23]. Additional studies from the UK in 1999 [24], Finland [25] and Denmark in 2002 [26], and Japan in 2005 [27] similarly failed to confirm the Lancet article. In 2014, Australian scientists analyzed the combined results of ten prior studies — collectively involving over 1.2 million children — and similarly found no relationship between vaccines and autism [28]. Most recently, a US study published in April 2015 has once again shown that the MMR vaccine does not increase the risk of developing autism, even for those who are genetically predisposed to the disorder [29].
In 2004, British investigative journalist Brian Deer presented evidence that Wakefield may have falsified data in his publication [30]. Questions against Wakefield’s findings continued to mount, until January 2010, when the General Medical Council ruled that Wakefield guilty of serious misconduct [31], and the Lancet retracted the original 1998 article [22]. A few months later, Wakefield was removed from the UK medical register and barred from practicing medicine in the UK [32].
The enduring popularity of the autism-vaccine story may be fueled by stories within the anti-vaccination movement itself. Parents have shared stories of children who began developing signs of autism shortly after receiving vaccines, and conclude that vaccines are in fact the cause of autism. However, the onset of autism typically occurs at 2-3 years of age [19], which is around the same age that children receive most of their vaccines.
Additionally, anti-vaccinationists supporting Wakefield’s views often point to the rise of autism diagnoses in the US [33] – more than ten-fold what it was in the 1970s and 1980s – as evidence of an autism-vaccine link. In actuality, the causes of the increase in autism diagnoses are far more complex.
The rise in autism diagnoses is due, in part, to changes in the definition of autism. In general, the definition of autism has become increasingly detailed and inclusive, and thus, more children today are diagnosed with the disorder [34]. In fact, the same symptoms that would be considered “autistic” today may have led to a different diagnosis, such as mental retardation, several decades ago.
Interestingly, the city of Yokohama, Japan has not administered the MMR vaccine to any children born since 1993. Yet, autism rates have increased even among these unvaccinated children [27]. Thus, even as scientists continue to untangle the exact causes of autism, one thing remains unchanged: no one has yet found a scientifically sound and robust link between vaccines and autism."
Vaccines do not cause autism. Despite much controversy on the topic, researchers haven't found a connection between autism and childhood vaccines. In fact, the original study that ignited the debate years ago has been retracted.
I do not doubt that Jennyjenny2's anecdote is accurate (clearly a terrible tragedy) but we need more than the parents belief. We would need scientists to study the vaccination and the child and make the connection.
Lastly, I think we would all agree that any particular pharmaceutical can cause severe health consequences in some rare instances, but from that we cannot conclude that in general that particular pharmaceutical is harmful.
All the traditional medical and health institutions are mouth pieces for pharma. They are funded by pharma. They were all taught by pharma. Their course work is by pharma. They were taught to distribute drugs. They were taught to treat the symptoms rather than the cause. The independent doctors who realize there is something wrong with this paradigm, and think outside the box are my heroes. They use some pharmaceuticals , as well, but that isn't their first choice.
You won't find the studies. They have been removed.
By Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Chairman, Children’s Health Defense
This is my ninth installment in CHD’s series of studies comparing health outcomes in vaccinated vs unvaccinated populations. Despite CDC’s and NIH’s (Tony Fauci’s) efforts to prevent the creation of these studies, courageous and independent university and government scientists have found ways to perform vaccinated/ unvaxxed studies. We have now assembled nearly 60 studies- all published in previous installments on my Instagram page and on CHD’s website. All of these studies found vaccinated cohorts to be far sicker than their unvaccinated peers. CDC blocks access by independent scientists to the largest vaccine database, the Vaccine Safety Datalink, which Congress created expressly for the purpose of performing this kind of study.
(See full-sized Part 9 slides or see the complete Vaxxed-Unvaxxed presentation, Parts 1-9.)
Here's a good article from that April 30 issue of The Atlantic.
"HEALTH
The Coronavirus Conspiracy Boom
Nearly a third of the people we polled believe that the virus was manufactured on purpose. Why?
Under this framework, the structure of COVID-19 conspiracy theories—how widespread they are, where they come from, and what they might mean—is completely predictable. The key difference in the case of the coronavirus is the stakes. We have little reason to be concerned, for example, about the one in three Americans who thinks aliens have secretly made contact with humans. And at no point was our society in danger because nearly 80 percent of Americans once thought the Warren Commission got the details of John F. Kennedy’s assassination wrong. But the consequences of blaming the coronavirus’s emergence on the wrong source, or of doubting its seriousness, could be life-threatening on a massive scale. People who believe that the virus is a bioweapon may be more likely to engage in hoarding and other self-centered behaviors. And if the one in three Americans who believes that the effects of COVID-19 have been exaggerated choose to forgo crucial health practices, such as social distancing, frequent hand-washing, and wearing a mask, then the disease could spread faster and farther than otherwise, and could cost many thousands of lives. "
Interesting. When an individual goes against the status quo, he/she is labeled a conspiracy theorist. When one has to resort to name calling to make their point of view, the question would be, "why". Where is open discussion? What role does the pharma cartel play a role in this discussion?
I have read both sides of where the virus originated. I am of the current view, it was enhanced in the Wuhan lab. I might change my mind, given more information.
Well, this is a thread about using information to "question the mainstream".
I am saddened you could find no mainstream institutions that highlight the real potential (and growing evidence) for adverse health effects of vaccinations. But I'm not totally surprised.
It's a very polarized topic, and there are two problematic parties. On the one hand, there are dogmatic and super-skeptical antivaxxers , let's call them the kneejerk antivaxxers. On the other hand, there is Big Pharma. Vaccines are big money. The global market is pulling in $60 billion annually. With massive financial pressure on one side, and wackos on the other (like potentially Wakefield), and an understandably concerned public, it’s not surprising that on the public facing side of things, many medical institutions are towing the party line that vaccines are totally safe.
Do you know one name that comes up a lot when you talk about vaccines? Merck. Do you remember the Vioxx scandal? When they were hiding scientific information. Merck had multiple internal studies which showed that Vioxx was linked to cardiac problems. But they said it was safe. Repeatedly, they said it was safe.
Eventually, the facts came out. David J. Graham is an American epidemiologist who is the Associate Director of the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Office of Drug Safety. In 2004, he testified before Congress that Vioxx was estimated to have caused between 89,000 and 139,000 excess heart attacks and sudden cardiac deaths within the United States. Another reputable study estimated the number of excess heart attacks and strokes to be 160,000.
To get in handle on how many people that is, Dr. Graham compared it to airplane accidents. He said to imagine 2 to 4 commercial airliners crashing out of the sky every week for five years. Because of a drug that Merck repeatedly promised was safe.
I recommend reading Dr. Graham’s full testimony, which is available here:
In his testimony, he asserted his personal belief that the policies within the U.S. Food and Drug Administration were insufficient to protect the public from drugs which carry unacceptable risks, saying "I would argue that the FDA, as currently configured, is incapable of protecting America against another Vioxx. We are virtually defenseless."
Two medical journals found Merck culpable. From an article in the Wall Street Journal:
“Two medical-journal studies suggest Merck & Co. violated scientific-publishing ethics by ghostwriting dozens of academic articles, and minimized the impact of patient deaths in its analyses of some human trials of a top-selling drug later linked to cardiac problems.”
So no, I don’t trust Merck. But neither do I just assume that vaccines are automatically bad and dangerous, either. I’m a “show me the money” kind of guy.
This is the article that initially raised my concerns about vaccines. I think it is well reasoned and balanced.
Tomljenovic, Lucija, and C. A Shaw. "Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe?." Current Medicinal Chemistry 18.17 (2011): 2630-2637.
ABSTRACT:
Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly contentious medical issue.
The whole article is very much worth reading, it contains a number of important points. You can find a PDF of the full article here:
“Adjuvants such as aluminum salts aim to improve the vaccine antibody response in order to make them more effective [3]. However, one should recall controversies on these adjuvants, notably the one dealing with hepatitis B and human papillomavirus vaccine, causing autoimmune or neurological diseases [6]. Among unusual reactions to vaccines containing aluminum hydroxide, macrophagic myofasciitis is an inflammatory lesion described in 1998 [7] and recognized as a ‘distinctive histopathological entity that may be caused by intramuscular injection of Al-containing vaccines’ [8,9]. Diseases attributed to vaccines, quoted in this article, have in common the presence of neurological disorders. The neurotoxicity of aluminum is now well recognized, and the possible relationship between aluminum and chronic neurological diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease has been the key issue of studies for many years [4,10,11].
“The total safety of aluminum adjuvant for human use is still debated [12]. Many studies demonstrate the link between vaccinal aluminum and different diseases, but the French National Academy of Medicine has not admitted this relationship yet [4,13].
“Nevertheless, the question of vaccine safety is of significant concern and associations of patients advocate, as a precaution measure, the substitution of Al-adjuvant by calcium phosphate, which is another adjuvant already used in human vaccination.”
MY POINT IS THIS: I can’t give you such an extreme smoking gun for vaccines there were for Vioxx. But there is growing scientific evidence that it is a problem. And we are mismanaging our response to that. By denying that there could be any problem, many medical institutions are feeding the polarization. We could have been developing vaccines with a different adjuvant, and stopped injecting millions of infants with a significant load of aluminum, a known neurotoxin. Instead, we are dealing with people forgoing vaccines altogether, which is creating another problem.
Thank you for posting that. The information that goes against the vaccines is removed from social media, almost as quickly as it is posted. Here is a short interview with Mark Zuckerberg, who contradicted himself. He initially stated they didn't remove posts that oppose vaccines, then he stated if people are searching for such, they will be blocked.
In 2011, the Dwoskins also underwrote the anti-vaccine “safety” conference in Jamaica, which included as speakers, Shaw and Tomljenovic. In other words, these two researchers with zero credentials in vaccines, are supported by anti-vaccine funding. And this means they violate the primary principle of science – examine all of the evidence to come to a conclusion. Instead, these two have preconceived conclusions and try to produce evidence to support it.
I'm sorry, but I feel you must really be joking. That's what they did in this paper, they examined all of the evidence, or at least a good deal of it. The paper has 116 references. They also looked at other people who examine the evidence. And you know what they found? There is strong evidence that aluminum is a neurotoxin. And, despite having aluminum having been used in vaccines for 90 years, there is a surprising LACK of evidence for the safety of doing so. They quoted experts, who said there was '"pervasive uncertainty" a term used to denote what remained unknown regarding potential aluminum toxicity from adjuvants.'
Everyone has to deal with their initial bias. This goes for people who are staunchly pro-vaccine as well as people who are skeptical. I feel you suffer from the same thing. You obviously googled their names and quoted from a Facebook post rather than looking at the paper itself. Come on.
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EDIT: Well, sometimes things are complicated. (Scientific controversies usually are.) I have done enough research on Shaw and Tomljenovic that I trust them less than I did. For example, there is this:
.... all we get from Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic are bad research that falls below the most minimum standards of research quality. In fact, some of their research, like a recent retracted article in the Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry, was poorly done, if not being outright chicanery. To be fair, Shaw and Tomljenovic have published 16 articles (plus three that were retracted). Almost all of them are opinion pieces, that is not original research or systematic reviews. It was like some random anti-vaccine internet troll wrote articles that got published just pushing an anti-vaccine conclusion.
Much of Shaw’s anti-vaccine “research” has been paid by the Dwoskin Family Foundation, one of the most profoundly anti-vaccine sponsors of research in the world. (Bepo: Follow the money!!)Claire Dwoskin is a board member of the anti-vaccine group, the National Vaccination Information Center, a vile anti-vaccine group that passes on misinformation as if they are facts about vaccines.
Thank you, Marc, for the link to ‘any vaccines can cause side effects’.
The mother of the boy with autism is a surgical nurse so it went against her training to not vaccinate their second son, but they were not prepared to play Russian roulette a second time.
Autism isn't rare, it's epidemic. Have you looked at the stats for Minnesota? This is a failure to exercise the precautionary principle. You can't explain the explosive increase in Autism away with the dogma of an expanded definition of the diagnosis. It's a brain injury, it has an environmental cause. I don't care if autism is caused by neurotoxic vaccines or a combination of environmental toxic exposures, like pesticide contaminants in the food we feed our children; we have the right to choose and the individual right to exercise the precautionary principle, these rights must be protected.
Marc, we live in Minnesota, there is no exclusion from public education based upon vaccine status. We have religious and philosophical exemptions to vaccination. I know this, because I used them and so have my children for my grandchildren. Why would you say otherwise and use the example your grandchildren couldn't attend school? It's a scare tactic. Are you trying to bolster your position by giving misinformation? Your credibility and reliability is in question now.
You haven't watched the Vaxxed, The Movie They Don't Want You To See, video yet, as you claimed you would, have you? Dr. Stephanie Seneff, whom is interviewed in the movie has studied autism for years.
I agree. I think everyone should read the list of potential side effects that are offered with the vaccines. It is your right to read them. Vaccines are not subject to the same safety standards as other pharmaceuticals. They don't require the same amount of testing. The manufactures of the vaccines are not held liable if there are damages. Any complaints have to go to a vac court.
People have been indoctrinated to the pharmaceutical model and only the pharmaceutical model. It is estimated that 1 in 22 boys will have autisim after receiving all the vaccinations.
We cannot leave healthcare up to individuals. If individuals could not spread illness, that would be fine, but that's not the way it works. For example if your kid doesn't get immunized, your kid could cause the death of my kid. Not okay.
I disagree for precisely the same reason I believe wearing a mask in public should also be mandatory, i.e., it protects others.
WHAT?? Where's the logic? So, if your kid has been vaccinated, and mine hasn't, how can my kid give the disease to yours, who was already vaccinated? Think about it. The vaccination is to give your child protection, so why does mine need to be vaccinated?
We are our own doctors. We learn what we need to do to maintain good health. We are not always compliant with our own prescriptions. The doctors we see, and have seen for PD and everything else, are traditionally trained MD's who realize that pharma does not cure chronic disease. Our local doctor gave up his hospital privileges because he wouldn't get vaccinated.
No one knows how she was exposed. She had vaccinated older siblings. But Austin has a high percentage of vaccine waivers. I recommend to any new mothers that they not take their baby into public areas until they've completed 1st series of DTP. I emphasize: It is reckless to say that an unvaccinated child poses no risk to others.
Still unwilling to accept that an unvaccinated child could have infected this baby. Bepo. Talk about closed minded! andI I thought you advocated open minded. For others not you it seems
I used to believe in vaccines. No more. I believe the smallpox vaccine was the only one that worked. I have studied vaccines for a many years. My conclusion is that they are not effective, and can cause a lot of harm. In the US, the manufacturers of vaccines are not held accountable for any damage to the recipients. Watch the movie Vaxxed: "From cover up to catastrophe", or "The Movie they don't want you to see".
"We cannot leave healthcare up to individuals." What?!
If you want to inject poison into your body, go ahead. If you demand that I submit to your beliefs, you're going to get a fight. I have the right to bodily integrity, self determination and informed consent. I have the right to accept or reject medical treatment - so do you. Vaccines are a medical procedure that carries risk.
I can't make anyone sick with an illness I don't have. If I'm sick, I have enough sense to manage my social behavior. I wear a mask, it's not to protect you from me; it's to protect me from you!
People are self medicating with nutrition - including you. Read Dr. Terry Wahls book, she treated her progressive MS with FOOD and achieved remission.
I have ALS, I was neglectly poisoned with Roundup (documented and going into litigation), my mom had Parkinson's disease, her death was compounded by the adverse effects of conventional pharmaceutical care. There are documented cases of recovery from ALS, drugs fail, nutrition is the only real cure. I have no intention of dying from my poisoning and conventional pharmaceutical drugs, this includes vaccines, which are a pharmaceutical drug that has not received warranted scrutiny - just like Roundup.
I'm not drinking your Koolaid no matter how good you say it tastes.
I understand, sympathize, and respect your position, but I believe it's undeniable that mass vaccinations is what eradicated several terrible diseases such as polio as an example of why I would support some vaccinations being mandatory.
Coronavirus is, perhaps, a better example. If a majority does not get vaccinated this lethal virus will never be eliminated. Do you agree with that? Now, a lot of the virulent anti-vaccination people will simply decline to get a vaccinations. Do you believe they put the rest of us at risk?
As a PWP and perhaps a senior citizen contracting Covid 19 is probably lethal to you. How do you feel about everybody who's in their twenties thirties and forties having a cavalier attitude toward our very lives by declining to get vaccinated?
I'm of the impression that wearing a mask does not protect the wearer, but the purpose of wearing a mask is the protect others. Are you saying that if it were solely matter protecting others you would not wear a mask?
I know I'm unqualified to pass judgment on scientific studies so for some areas of healthcare, I feel I have little choice but to trust institutions like Harvard Medical School and the Mayo Clinic. Nearly all traditional doctors are heavily influenced by their training and experience, i.e., overly reliant on pharmaceuticals, however, I do not believe that the likes of Harvard Medical School and the Mayo Clinic is controlled by big Pharma.
SE, after rereading the last paragraph where you explain your personal and family challenges, I would feel the same as you do (my PD came from Agent Orange and the manufacturer and the generals had to know that anything that could defoliate a rain forest in a few days wasn't good for people) and would pursue the same course you are.
PSS. When a Covid 19 vaccine is finally developed, I am not going to rush out and get it until after it's been administered for several months because I will not trust that it is safe, but for different reasons a general distrust of vaccines.
Where in MN do you live?
I called my daughter to double check about the requirement of children to be vaccinated to be admitted to public schools in Minnesota and she said that is absolutely the case.
Marc, George was also hit with agent orange. What are you doing to get rid of the poisons in your body. See.......the poisons are what caused your PD. Why do you think people won't get ill from vaccinations.....either now or later?
I came across the immunization form required by the MN department of health when we moved to a new school district in August, 2019. I was not looking for it, but since I found it, here it comes:
It reads in part:
1. Document a medical and/or non-medical exemption. I checked non-medical for all vaccines except chicken pox, our children are naturally immune. (They got chicken pox after my husband had shingles. I got a natural booster and none of us need vaccines.)
2. I had to make a separate declaration for chicken pox.
B. Non-medical exemption: A child is not required to have an immunization that is against their parent or guardian's beliefs. It goes on to state, "I am aware that my child may be required to stay home from childcare, school and other activities if exposed."
I had to have my signature notarized.
Nowhere does it say "No vaccine. No school."
What it does say is: Minnesota law requires children enrolled in child care, early childhood education, or school to be immunized against certain diseases, unless the child is medically or non-medically exempt.
It's a misleading statement. As the parent - you choose. It can be all, some or none.
The state is still tracking our children and monitor their vaccine status. We get letters periodically reminding us which vaccines are due.
Are you still on speaking terms with your son in law? Can you forgive yourself if it's your grandchild who becomes injured? Will they forgive you for meddling in their marriage?
I have 2 generations of children. The oldest ones were vaccinated to the schedule, all the vaccines contained thimerosal and aluminum adjuvant. Mercury + Aluminum is not 1+1, aluminum potentiates mercury toxicity by thousands, and by now everyone should know that there is no safe level of mercury exposure. NONE.
I'm married to a degreed scientist. Thimerosal is still used in vaccine production, as long as it tests below a set threshold the manufacturer doesn't have to disclose the ingredient. There are other vaccine ingredients that raise alarms and are cause for concern.
Two of the oldest children are on the spectrum (learning disabilities, behavioral problems...) and the other developed life threatening asthma subsequent (temporal) to the MMR. All have allergies. The pediatrician never told me this was Autism, they prescribed amphetamines for my 5 year old. Do not for a second believe your child's protected health information is private, the teachers know which kids are drugged. I was pressured to continue drugging him for convenience - I refused to make my child a drug addict.
The oldest one was not hyperactive and was diagnosed at 12. He was prescribed welbutrin by a child psychiatrist and became suicidal. This is unforgivable. The PhD was a jerk, it seems my son was doomed anyway, and disposable. Life has been a real struggle for him, but he keeps going.
I can't count how many times we rushed to the emergency room because I couldn't knock down the inflammation from an asthma attack. One in particular still haunts me. My child almost died. He's an adult and married to a RN. He went into anaphylaxis at his stag party and had to be rushedto the hospital. Do you want this for your grandchildren?
I. NEVER. STOP. WORRYING.
15 years later and the vaccine schedule had doubled. This infant was partially vaccinated, but by divine intervention a Congressional inquiry on Thimerosal containing vaccines was being broadcast on C-Span. In 2001 a pediatrician from Harvard was testifying and said he could not in good conscience recommend vaccines for his own grandson. We stopped all further shots. Expletives were released.
We were subjected to bullying from my husbands family; my MiL called crying, saying we had to get him vaccinated or he will die. I will never forgive my brother and sister in law for their meddling. (They had their first grandson 2 years ago and our family was excluded from Christmas because of our vaccine status, that they have no right to know. Shunning is bullying.) Did you know that kids with HIV are legally protected and cannot be excluded from public education? No one will ever know who these kids are. Is it right that my kids do not have the same protection?
[Hospice gave my mom the flu shot while she was actively dying. The nurse disagreed philosophically but gave the shot anyway, because my mothers husband wanted her to get it, to theoretically protect himself. I had to excuse myself and go vomit.]
Our child has learning disabilities and other hallmarks of ASD. We did not have him tested like the others due to medical privacy concerns. When people say "anti-vaxxers" take medical advice from Jenny McCarthy, I want to scratch their eyes out. Derogatory name calling is never acceptable, it only demonstrates the invalidity of the argument. It means you're out of arrows.
The last child to arrive has never been vaccinated. He's first in his class with a 4.35 gpa. The sky's the limit. I grieve for the stolen future of my other sons and can barely live with myself. You know it intimately when you live it; and those who vaccinate are playing roulette with the future of their children. Vaccines are unavoidably unsafe [Congress]. They're playing a numbers game with our children for profit, and when vaccine injury happens, parents will spend the rest of their lives trying to reconcile their guilt.
If you still cling to your opinion after reading my testimony (we're one of the lucky ones, our children didn't die or regress and become severely disabled) than you haven't researched vaccines enough.
When we decided to stop vaccinating, I first researched vaccine ingredients. With the last child I researched the illnesses. It boils down to risk. We will take our chances with childhood illnesses over the risk of catastrophic vaccine injury. My husband and I stand together on this and we can't be moved.
I know what I know. And I know what you don't know.
Research, research, research; mend relationships and apologize. Then love on those grandchildren!
I am so sorry you had to go through that. My youngest son, who just turned 47 was diagnosed with ADHD, before it was popular to be diagnosed with ADHD. He was a good kid, never a behavior problem. The doctor did what pharma taught him. He said I should put him on Ritalin. I didn't. I thought why should I put him on drugs when I have taught both my boys to stay away from drugs. I changed his diet, instead . He struggled in school, and was below grade level most of the time. I am wondering if the ADHD was caused by vaccines? I think it is a good possibility. He was a natural athlete and graduated from college with a double major, which he is using today. He turned into a responsible, wonderful human being.
Look at the ways to detox from those poisons. Both George and I are extremely high in heavy metals. We eat an organic diet and don't know where they came from, as we use no poisons around the house. Dr. Carrie Riveria has healed many autistic kids. cdautism.org/
Thanks for your suggestions. We think along the same lines. We are lucky. We have spring water that has not been treated. We have used chelation therapies to rid ourselves of extremely high levels of lead. Our physician thinks, because the levels have not gone down, that it was in our cookware. We now use titanium cookware. I avoid anything made in China that is ingestable. But, I will have to recheck. Maybe tea? Vitacost, when asked, stated all their supplements were made in the US, but maybe, on second thought, their ingredients weren't. We had our amalgams removed and only eat salmon or fresh water, wild fish.
SE, I do not now still cling to my pro-vaccine opinion. I think it impossible to read your story and not be swayed. Clearly, vaccinations are harmful in some instances.
I am so very sorry for your hardships. Your family has really been put through the wringer. I know guilt is unavoidable is a parent, but at the age most of us are when having children, we should not/cannot be expected to have such a deep understanding of pharmaceuticals -- although you did. True, I would probably never forgive myself if my involvement with my grandchildren caused them any harm.
I hope some day you can be relieved of your guilt. It's a terrible burden. You did your best and you did everything that you could've at the time. You were up against powerful forces. .
My daughter divorced 6 years ago, but even so, we are on good speaking terms with her ex. We did not meddle in their relationship. We declined to get involved for several months and eventually my daughter begged us to help because her brother has a PhD in biology and my wife has a PhD and 2 Master Degrees in public health and she figured we could help her do the research. At the time, she, herself, was ambivalent about vaccinations, but felt required to have them so her mission became 1 of getting her husband to agree. We lucked out. Knock on wood. The 2 children are now 13 or 14 (I keep forgetting which) years old and both are healthy.
Perhaps, my daughter misunderstood the school, but she was adamant with me this morning on the phone, saying the school absolutely would not let her kids start without a vaccination proof. (It sounds to me like the school dealt with this issue verbally with her. I'll ask for more detail.)
I have just read your post again, SE. It saddens me greatly, but we didn’t know back then the harm that vaccines could do. We trusted ‘them’.
I had subjected my baby daughter to the first shot and a couple of hours later she had a bad reaction so therefore no more immunizations. We were the lucky ones, but it could have all gone terribly wrong.
Our daughter now has 2 daughters of her own. When asked if they’re immunized, she says yes, but doesn’t say that they’re homoeopathically immunized as she is tired of having to justify the fact.
It's immoral and irresponsible for your daughter to lie to people about her daughter's vaccinations If those enquiries are made so that the other party can make informed decisions.
Vaccinations are protected health information. No one has the right to know. If the parents choose homeopathy, then that's a good enough disclosure. For everyone else this means MYOB.
Fine. So when one of your granddaughters wants to have unprotected sex with a man, and she asks him if he has had an STD screening, and he says yes because he had a 'homeopathic' screening (I.e not a real one) you'll be fine with that. Got it.
That's what one has to do. Good for her for monitoring the health of her children. She might be thrown in jail for not giving her children vaccines. In California, children cannot attend school without vaccines.
Let's see, originally, there were 3 vaccines. Now, a child has to have 72 before age 18. FOLLOW THE MONEY! Where did doctors and health practitioners decide our bodies needed foreign chemicals? Could it be there universities and training was only taught on these foreign chemicals: drugs and vaccines? The body has great self defense mechanisms to heal itself. Why are we interfering with nature? What are the long term effects of these chemicals? Heart disease? Cancer? Parkinson's?
I saw very little on masks in that post. I wish politics were not referred to in any discussions on Covid. I guess, it's an election year. Covid has nothing to do with politics.
I have tremendous respect for Robin Openshaw. I researched masks and made my design for my family. We wear them in public to avoid community acquired illnesses, and only for short periods of time. Because of my respiratory insufficiency, re-breathing CO2 helps reset my CNS from the alkalosis that is part of the process of ALS. For healthy people wearing a mask seems ludicrous.
You might want to reconsider a corona virus vaccine . Corona virus vaccines, (flu vaccines), have only worked 10% of the time. This new vaccine is an RNA vaccine. That has never been administered before will intermingle with our DNA.
Excellent post. ALS and Parkinson's, for most, are caused by toxins and lack of nutrition. There are ways to cure ALS, that don't go along with the allopathic remedies. Go to the cause. Have you had chelation therapy or ozone? go to GreenMedInfo.com. I m so sorry for yourconditions. That, with all the added stress of the handling of this virus.
Not much available in my area so I have to be creative. I have a small ozone generator, but mostly use the oxygen concentrator connected to the ventilator. The antidote to cyanide is oxygen and B12, but so much more is depleted and damaged from the now long standing effect of poisoning.
Working on my protocol currently. In March I was in respiratory failure, the ventilator and oxygen rescued me. My husband is now undergoing testing for ALS, I can't even process this emotionally or I get distraught.
How can this even happen if not for the same environmental toxin exposure? And what about the 2 teenagers still living with us? They have more reserve, but being male and going through puberty makes them vulnerable. Because of my diagnosis all of my offspring have a 50% risk of developing ALS. Does their risk more increase with their fathers diagnosis? Angry doesn't begin to describe how I feel. I'm declaring war.
Oh, SE, I can't imagine the heartache .It's tragic!
What might be helpful is to find an ozone therapist, MD, who could give you ozone. If you tell me what part of the country you live in, I might be able to find suggestions. Do not use an ozone generator. You need a trained professional to give you treatments. Don't delay. You can study ozone and ALS. We have suggested this therapy to people with brain cancer, those who have asthma and have problems breathing and lyme disease.
Quoted from the Bolen Report :
When the medical profession pretends that there is such a thing as scientific proof, labeling their remedies as “proven” and decrying unproven alternatives, it seems unaware that in physical science there are only guesses, hypotheses, theories and few laws. Only repeatable experiments determine truth.
To the degree that medicine relies on carefully conducted experiments and collects data without preconceived notions, which can be duplicated and criticized by other scientists, it follows generally accepted scientific principles. Conclusions may be drawn, but to imply that there are “proven” methods for controlling disease, is to lie.
Mandatory vaccines go against freedoms and democracy. I believe in the US, it is unconstitutional to mandate the people have substances they don't want to be injected into their bodies. It should be. If there is a class action lawsuit initiated, I will join. I will not be vaccinated against my will.
How many vaccines does a child receive before the age of 18? Do you want to take the vaccine for Covid 19 which may make you more susceptible to severe complications; a vaccine never tested; a vaccine that doesn't have to be proven safe before you take it? Will they make it mandatory?
Absolutely! Where are the rights to chose what we put into our bodies? Why this focus on mandatory vaccines? (Follow the money!!) Next, what other civil liberties will we have to forego?
My father was a mechanical engineer and an avid anti-fluoride campaigner going back to the 1960’s, if I remember correctly, so he was definitely thought of as crazy back then, even writing a (self-published) book on the subject.
He always taught me to question everything, and I thank him for that. Hence I’ve ended up on this site. Thank you all.
Imagine however the 45 year old person who is severely disabled, living in poverty because of their disability, essentially, a life ruined, because as a toddler their parents being individualist took priority over having their child immunized.
The problem with the parents decision not to vaccinate their children is that their children are not old enough to provide informed consent and we can be sure that in every single 1 of those children's who suffer the lifelong consequences of their parents ill-informed decision probably wish it could be taken back.
Thank God there are parents who have researched the harmful effects of vaccines, ( which outnumber the harmful effects of most diseases.) In the movie Vaxxed, they present evidence both for those who believe in vaccinations and those who are incensed at the idea of forced vaccinations, let alone, vaccinations for anyone.
Who by? Pharma! They have their trolls out to discredit their detractors. They pay great sums of money to shut up people who peddle their products: Big Pharma shells out 20 billion each year to lobby docs and 6 billion on
advertisements They are the biggest lobbyists to the government.
Marc, that's fantastic. I believe I have read every word of every link you have posted on the subject. If one takes the time to post a link, I read them all.
Actually, the opposite is true. When you put foreign chemicals into the body, the body can be harmed in many ways that might not show up until you get heart disease, cancer, etc. I had polio as a child. I know how to cure it now: ozone. I would never give a child a polio vaccine, a HPV vaccine, MMR vaccine, etc. Our children and our grandchildren won't live as long as we do.
"Imagine however the 45 year old person who is severely disabled, living in poverty because of their disability, essentially, a life ruined, because as a toddler their parents being individualist took priority over having their child immunized."
[It sounds like you are describing Autism, it used to be called Vaccinosis.]
Are you referring to polio? You need to do a deep dive on this illness. When we decided to stop vaccinating our children, and ourselves, polio was the one illness I worried about. Not anymore. I am however, frequently tipped over about the reckless use of pesticides.
The dogma that polio is caused by an enterovirus doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Children were poisoned by DDT. Rachel Carson's Silent Spring woke people up and put our government on notice. Like magic, polio disappeared, and Salk became a hero. If only they had the internet back then.
I wonder why adults don't need Polio boosters? Vaccine efficacy wanes over time, how did we adults acquire immunity when previously there were cases of polio in adults?
Polio is a neuromuscular disease. So is ALS. I know what poisoning looks like. DDT is a potent acetylcholinesterase inhibitor. Polio is caused by pesticides, not a stomach bug. Doctor's and PhDs can't say this outloud or their careers will be destroyed. But I can.
Now there is a new neuromuscular disease AFM, attacking our children, and it looks suspiciously like polio - the public health officials swear it isn't polio, but AFM "might" be caused by a different enterovirus similar to poliovirus. It's regurgitated dogma.
These poor parents are left with maimed and permanently injured children, and if they survive, they will see a recurrence of degeneration as the growth hormones wane, it's called post polio syndrome. Adults were diagnosed with "polio" too if there were conjugate injuries. If not it was diagnosed as Lou Gehrig disease. Excuse me while I go vomit.
When I showed up at my neurology and neuropsychiatry appointments too well informed, and compared my poisoning to Gulf War syndrome, they attempted to discredit me and say I'm schizophrenic. The DatScan proved I'm not. You can't hide delusions on a neuropsych evaluation. What they learned is that I have above average intelligence. Thanks doc. <sarcasm >
I was warned about post polio syndrome. I had polio when I was 4 . I am going to give you the information again on ALS, in case you missed it. It is curable. Give it your best shot!
MYTH: Everyone should be vaccinated because unvaccinated people spread diseases.
TRUTH: Those who are vaccinated may be immune to a disease, but they carry (and spread) pathogens the same as those who are not vaccinated. Forcing the unvaccinated to accept vaccines will not further protect those who already are immune.
In Measles Outbreak, Vaccines failed to Protect. Close Contact in School did not Influence Contagion
Interesting to note when fluoride was introduced into Melbourne’s water supply by the then Premier Dick Hamer in the 1970’s, his brother was chairman of 2 Australian fertilizer companies. A very profitable way to put to use the waste byproduct from the production of fertilizer.
I had also read, years ago, that he was doing great on the natural remedies, but his cronies and associates convinced him to do conventional treatments, because they had no confidence in the homeopathic treatments.
You know it's funny that people are so quick to blame any alternative therapy when the outcome isn't positive to devastating diseases while there are people dying from traditional medical care daily that's somehow accepted as the normalcy.
Agreed. If one has strong beliefs, they will place their feet in cement, so as not to disrupt their beliefs. They are so sure they are right, it would be too upsetting to their beliefs to examine anything else.
I'd bet that Jobs said this after he made most of his extremely big money. Until then, and while he wanted/needed somebody else's money, he kept to being more political to survive. Also, what he said is a truism for people like that, after the fact. Until then, it's a target and always will be, when we have our "mob-member-hat" on it's kill anything that's different. When you take that off and put on your "I'm in my creative zone" hat, you forget you are putting on a target and putting down your crowd-gang baton. What keeps you from being killed is if you are rich to begin with, or wait until after you are rich before doing it, until then you are the deer, not the hunter.
You can't have fungus on your shower shoes until you're in The Show (made it to the major leagues in baseball). If your in The Show, if you have fungus on your shower shoes, then you're "colorful." Down here in the minors, your just another loser with fungus on his shower shoes." --from the movie Bull Durham
Steve Jobs was a capitalist people exploiter and resource accumulator
Get used to it, youll get crucified everywhere on all sites if you go against the site cliques. ultimately almost no one cares on these sites about other peoples pd issues.
I apologize for offending you, but I do feel badly for you that you're that cynical. I suspect many of the people on this forum who care deeply about the others may well be offended by your saying they do not care about each other here.
If you take the time to read to this forum you will find clear, compelling, examples, by the hundreds, where people express their well wishes to others who are total strangers.
They would not take the time to do that if they truly did not care.
Here's an interesting article and a quote by a virologist who recently recovered from Covid 19 from the most recent issue of Science magazine about the relevance of vaccinations as they pertain to Covid 19.
"The Commission is strongly committed to supporting the development of a vaccine. Let’s be clear: Without a coronavirus vaccine, we will never be able to live normally again. The only real exit strategy from this crisis is a vaccine that can be rolled out worldwide. That means producing billions of doses of it, which, in itself, is a huge challenge in terms of manufacturing logistics. And despite the efforts, it is still not even certain that developing a COVID-19 vaccine is possible.
Today there’s also the paradox that some people who owe their lives to vaccines no longer want their children to be vaccinated. That could become a problem if we want to roll out a vaccine against the coronavirus, because if too many people refuse to join, we will never get the pandemic under control.
“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Clash of Kings
Are there any medical schools that aren't taught the pharmaceutial model? Are all soon to be MD's given any options and material that would refute pharma? Big Farma shells out 20 billion each year to lobby docs and 6 billion on
advertisements They are the biggest lobbyists to the government. They own us and our information and ultimately, our thinking.
The scientists I pay attention to claim the opposite of the Brit scientist. There has never been a vaccine that has worked for Corona Viruses. They also are dangerous, and might make one who received the injection more susceptible to becoming seriously ill with the wild disease. childrenshealthdefense.org/...
Since when do we rely on chemicals to survive?? Ever since the take over by Pharma. Certainly, vaccines, made of chemicals and potentially retroviruses, are not meant to help us. but to harm our immune and over-all health.
Absolutely nuts! When you cut your finger, your body heals itself. When you are properly nourished, your body wards off infections, cancers, heart disease, etc. Why would foreign substances be the only way to go?
Presumably you needed to start yet another pointless thread that has absolutely nothing to do with parkinsons disease because your last two dumpster fires were deleted?
Lucky us.
By the way, you've never actually "presented information". When was the last time you actually posted a link?
"Research it. Study ozone. Follow the money. Big pharma. Bill Gates. Backed by science."
^NONE of these things constitute information. They are meaningleas phrases thay you deploy with great frequency because, knowingly or otherwise, you think it provides you an air of legitimacy. But it doesn't. It makes you look like a sucker that has been hoodwinked by some other nutter with short, almost pavlovan style messages. I almost feel sorry for you.
How about providing actual links to all this wonderful information you supposedly have access to?
All of those with Parkinson's are vulnerable, no? What is the best way for Parkinson's people to protect themselves from Covid-19? Would that be more chemicals in the form of vaccines or drugs?
People with Parkinson's are vulnerable too. Have to keep uo your B vits, C, zinc, copper, D, a quarter-grain aspirin if you're not already on a blood thinner or anticoagulent, and is it NAC that help with phlegm? Anyway, keeping from those micronutrient deficiencies is how. Until there is a treatment and vaccine.
I am so sorry to hear that. Everyday you wake up, find at least 2 things to be thankful for. Change those two things everyday, and hold your head up proud. We are all in this together.
Surely, you must understand your on a website comprised of people who consider themselves disabled ?
Since you just joined this website in January I assume you're newly diagnosed? Do you understand that at some point in the future -- unless you move to another part of the country -- you'll be spit on?
Probably, you'll be less proud of where you live when that happens.
uhhhhh yes im disabled you are they are sooooo? that doesnt stop discrimination.........my lungs are collapsed to 48% FEV1........from PD. im well aware of the website containing folks that are disabled......are you aware pd kills people? i lost grandfather , my unvcle and my brother and cousin has pd ive lived with it my entire life......i hate where i live.....
For lovers of this kind of thing, according to concrete actions and not opinions, but what is the intention of a company that finances studies and patents such a thing?
Gio, That is disgusting! We are no longer in charge of our own bodies. We have 5G, which is motivated by profit, and we have chemtrails, (which I never was completely on board with, until recently, when I saw several 'condensate' trails that were not normal. They remained in the air for a long time. I live in the mountains of Northern California, where others saw them , as well. So, we cannot control the skys, or our air. cnbc.com/2019/09/07/bill-ga...
Gio, That is totally disgusting. We no longer control our own destiny. I have known about chemtrails since 2006, and was interested, but open minded. Recently, I live in the mountains of northern California, I saw so many, unnatural, 'jet streams', that were parallel to each other, in the sky. There can be no other explanation: Chemtrails. Bill Gates says he wants to protect the earth with a cloud.
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
The doctors we see, and have seen for PD and everything else, are traditionally trained MD's who realize that pharma does not cure chronic disease. Our local doctor gave up his hospital privileges because he wouldn't get vaccinated.
and none of us need vaccines.)
Play the hand that you are dealt. Is there a sane way for PD sufferers to make life choices?
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