Parkinson's hope as scientists find a pro... - Cure Parkinson's
Parkinson's hope as scientists find a probiotic can stop and even REVERSE the build-up of toxic clumps in brain that cause tremors
In spite of it being in the Daily Mail...
Parkinson's is poo
Yay, for Daily Mail
Bacillus subtilis. Available as supplement.
The paper mentions one specific strain - Bacillus subtilis probiotic strain PXN21. Did you find a probiotic that contains that?
I notice that Wegman's Kombucha has Bacillus subtitles probiotic added.....but it's DE111......perhaps others have the correct strain?
Please see below. One of the ingredients is Bacillus Subtilis strain PXN21.
Eat natto! Can't be worse than Symprove probiotic drink ,,,
There are more fermented soy products to eat than natto. Consider eating Douchi(e):
Purification and characterization of a novel, highly potent fibrinolytic enzyme from Bacillus subtilis DC27 screened from Douchi, a traditional Chinese fermented soybean food
nature.com/articles/s41598-...
or tempeh:
"Nattokinase is a kind of serine protease with strong thrombolytic activity (Sumi, Hamada, Tsushima, Mihara, & Muraki, 1987). It was extracted from fermented beans such as natto, douche, and tempeh...."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
so Silvestrov >>> preferable to eat Tempeh instead of buying a supplement of Nattokinase ??
(a "natural" guy famous in Germany, Austria and CH, Robert Franz, promotes such a supplement).......
But do you have some European alternatives (because preparing something unknown as tempeh for me, with bad motorik..............) ???
Thank you for your question. You can take a nattokinase supplement and eat tempeh too. If it is difficult to cook/eat just try the nattokinase supplement.
I know soy products can be bland, strange and not-very-palatable but simple preparation may improve the situation. I am a former vegetarian and know spicing tempeh or cooking it in a sauce can go a long way to improve the taste. Here is a link to simple tempeh preparation (tempeh can be improved with your favorite marinade):
thekitchn.comfive-tips-for-...
As for european alternatives to fermented soy products, I really do not know of any.
Here are some general comments about nattokinase.
I view all molecules which have shown to have promise through 'in vivo' (in life) or 'in vitro' (test tube) clinical testing (in various models of Parkinson's disease), as potential therapies and not as a cure for the disease. Like other therapies including vitamin B1, mucuna pruriens, vitamin B12, n-acetyl cysteine, .....the results of nattokinase therapy will be variable. Some PWP will feel a benefit and some may not be helped.
My point in posting other edible sources of nattokinase from fermented soy products relates to abandoning meat to improve the efficacy in L-dopa/mucuna pruriens therapy. Many PWP have experimented with vegetarianism because, as
noted in the Sinemet insert: "Since levodopa competes with certain amino acids for transport across the gut wall, the absorption of levodopa may be impaired in some patients on a high protein diet." accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatf... And considering this, tempeh, douchi... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_... would be good additions
to a vegetarian diet. Also, considering vitamin B12 has been implicated in slowing the progression of PD parkinsonsnewstoday.com/201... and a vegetarian diet is largely devoid of vitamin B12, sources of dried purple laver (nori/seaweed) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/114... should be considered as a dietary addition by PWP. Sometimes you find happy accidents and the following was discovered in researching my response to the question:
"Screening of vitamin B12 contents has revealed that some traditional soybean-fermented foods, such as Doenjang and Chunggukjang, and seaweeds contain considerable amounts of vitamin B12."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Nattokinase may benefit some PWP but it too, like all supplements and drugs, it has contraindications. Nattokinase (like NSAIDs) is a blood thinner and taking nattokinase and a NSAID at once can lead to internal bleeding. nattokinasehearthealth.com/... Considering Advil/ibuprofen has been shown to be of possible benefit to PWP you may have to choose which therapy you may want
to try. europepmc.org/article/med/2... and europepmc.org/article/PMC/3...
I hope this helps and have a good weekend.
Of course this helps Silvestrov !! Thank you very much for the answer...
and thank you for the good weekend-wishes.....but not immediately.
I'm a therapist and have to treat today 3 patients.....it's crazy, somehow I still manage to release their tension and they are satisfied and say it around and than more patients come, and they on their turn say to their relatives and, and , and
That's a bit frustrating >>> I can't treat anymore all the patients I want to....
So, enough talking >>> PPE modus now (Pill,,, pruriens,,,exercises) !!!
Ibuprofen or Aspirin, Rich? They both are neuroprotective.
That is a tough one to answer since PWP seem to have a different response to therapy, as they say 'results may vary'. So this is a 'meditation' if you will, on the possible uses and alternatives of aspirin or ibuprofen. Regardless, it is safer using liquid/children's ibuprofen or low dose aspirin.
Ibuprofen side effects: doctorshealthpress.com/pain...
Aspirin side effects: drugs.com/sfx/aspirin-side-...
What needs to be done is a double blind test with both supplements to see which works better.
The most interesting query is if ibuprofen can shorten the 'off time' of L-dopa. europepmc.org/article/med/2...
In the above study the researchers use 10 or 30 millogram for each killogram. A 100 pound person would be taking either 454 or 1,364 mg of (liquid) ibuprofen per day with their levodopa.
Maximum dose: 3200 mg/day (prescription strength); 1200 mg/day (over-the-counter)
drugs.com/dosage/ibuprofen....
Low-Dose Aspirin Upregulates Tyrosine Hydroxylase and Increases Dopamine Production in
Dopaminergic Neurons: Implications for Parkinson's Disease.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/301...
The abstract did not give the mg per kg dose but the title says low dose so it appears to be safe for PWP. My only question is there is a natural supplement with sallicin/acetylsalacilic acid in it?
Willow bark extract increases antioxidant enzymes and reduces oxidative stress through activation of Nrf2 in vascular endothelial cells and Caenorhabditis elegans
"Salicin, the major constituent of willow bark extract (WBE)1, is metabolized to salicylic acid in vivo and has been considered to play a main role in its anti-inflammatory and analgesic effects. In addition, willow bark is specified to contain not less than 1.5% of total salicylic alcohol derivatives, expressed as salicin in the European Pharmacopoeia [4]."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
With such a low content of sallicin in the 'raw' white willow bark it may be best to take a 'standardized' WWB Extract. I often purchase supplements from Swanson and their WWBE, 120 capsules/500 mg, is standarized to 25% sallicin.
swansonvitamins.com/swanson...
The question is what other alternatives are there for aspirin or ibuprofen?
Ibuprofen is easy: baicalin, the largest component of Skullcap/Scutellaria baicalensis. In the following study they note that the same dose of baicalin is equivalent to a dose of ibuprofen.
The Antiinflammatory and Analgesic Effects of Baicalin in Carrageenan-Evoked Thermal Hyperalgesia
"Interestingly, the analgesic effect of baicalin was similar to that of ibuprofen, a traditional NSAID."
journals.lww.com/anesthesia...
Is baicalin good for PD?: duckduckgo.com/?q=baicalin+...
Pycnogenol as derived from Pine bark extract is another alternative to aspirin.
Inhibition of smoking-induced platelet aggregation by aspirin and pycnogenol.
"Thus, smoking-induced enhanced platelet aggregation was inhibited by 500 mg Aspirin as well as by a lower range of 100-125 mg Pycnogenol. Aspirin significantly (p<0.001) increased bleeding time from 167 to 236 seconds while Pycnogenol did not."
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/104...
Amelioration of 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine-induced behavioural dysfunction and oxidative stress by Pycnogenol in mouse model of Parkinson's disease.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/206...
I guess the short answer is low dose aspirin may be best due to its safety and availability - though there are many alternatives to either drug.
Interesting. Thanks for posting. I always believed in asprin. No longer. Ibuprophen, I have read by doctors I trust, is dangerous for long term use.
Be careful. Soy is one of the crops that has been altered with GMO's. The last thing Parkinson's patients need is more toxins!
I have the Factor 5 Leiden gene, which makes my blood thick. I refused to take pharma and have taken natto for years. I had to sign a waver with the hospital because, of course, it was natural, they knew nothing about it.
A hospital not knowing anything about a natural/nutritional product is to be expected. They have a 'standard of care' which they are trained in. If a potential therapy does not conform with their training, they are clueless. For a substance to be used by traditional science it has to go through the double blind testing process and it will cost between 400 million to several billion dollars so there is no money to be made from a natural molecule. Adapted natural molecules can have a limited patent of 3 years but there is no money to made hence you signing the waiver.
Doctors have to be smart to get through medical school. I wonder why so many of them 'drink the kool-aid'.
There is a documentary on YouTube called "The Forbidden Cancer Cures". It addresses the beginning of the pharmaceutical industry and how they gained control of our health care. The pharmaceuticals want to keep you alive as long as they can, so you continue buying their products. It is all profit motivated. I believe some of the scientists who are researching the chemicals for certain diseases believe they will make a difference. At the same time, if there were really cures for chronic diseases, they would go out of business.
That’s a long way from curing Parkinson’s
Has anyone found this strain PXN21 to buy?
Please see below. One of the ingredients is Bacillus Subtilis strain PXN21.
bio-kult.com/bio-kult-30-ca...
I've ordered some from amazon, worth a try - of course, I'll update the forum on any outcomes 👍
How much did you pay for the capsules on Amazon (and for how much Quantity) ?
Hi, around £22 for 120 capsules.
Thanks for the Price - Qty. details and yes, please keep us updated about the outcome (progress). Purchased some for my mother too. Almost same cost in ($) for the same quantity. Hope that it helps !
I’ve ordered me too. Thank you very much Jonh 🙏👍😀
Gio , are you taking the fermented probiotic by Miyarisan that contains clostridium butyricum that clears away alpha synuclein ? Kia mentioned that he takes ghee to get his clostridium fix. How would this other probiotic compare?
My husband has been taking these since last year including vitamin B1 hcl. A recent MRI did not diagnose him with parkinsons eventhough I have seen the symptoms . As we know, by the time it shows in the mri some damage has been done already. One precursor of PD is the active dreams. I am also starting on melatonin.
I believe Kia has also posted lengthy articles on the benefits of clostridium butyricum on alpha synuclein. I found out about this probiotic on this forum and discovered miyarisan 588 which can be purchased in amazon . They have 2 strengths- the regular one and the extra strong
Miyarisan remains in my opinion the best probiotic. As far as the clarification of alfasyn is concerned, I don't have any certain parameters about its effectiveness because I think it will take some time.
Interesting. The probiotic my husband and I take has bacillus subtilis listed as the 2nd ingredient. After 4-5 years after diagnosis, he is doing very well. He takes the probiotic once a week. I think we will bring it back to every day, and see if that makes a difference. I don't know what strain it is.
Really nice to know that it is helping your husband even when he is taking it once a week. Hopefully, once a day can work wonders. I am aware of a couple of 'off-the-shelf probiotics that have bacillus Subtilis as one of their ingredients, but could not find the type of Strain associated. Would be wonderful if this probiotic can arrest the progress/reverse PD.
The link I provided is for a product from Bio-Kult that has the specific strain - 'Bacillus Subtilis PXN21' . (The research page that some one referred to mentions PXN21 strain).
Hello Bepo : It would be nice to know the name of the probiotic you mentioned. Many here would probably give it a try after reading your post.
Thanks
When I signed up to help my husband with PD, I researched a lot. I knew diseases start in the gut, so we started treating his PD on multiple fronts, including prebiotics and probiotics. The one we are using is Primal Defense Ultra. It has soil bacteria in it as well. I also think he is doing so well because of the mucuna protocol and vitamin B1.
Appreciate the reply and the details. After reading about Bacillus Subtilis, I saw Primal Defense Ultra (manufactured by Garden of Eden ?) probiotic at a health store and wanted to buy it. For now it is on my waiting list as I have bought Bio-Kult capsules.
Hi Bepo! 
It's been very hectic the last 2 weeks. . . Will contact you soon. I checked on Amazon and there are a few of those probiotics. What is the exact product? Copy and paste the link? Thank you!
We use Primal Defense Ultra. George will now be taking it everyday instead of once a week. He has improved with B1. We will keep at the current dose for 2 weeks total and then see what happens.
One of its supplements is Iron. . . Dr. Axe's doesn't contain Iron.
Thanks. I am going to check into that! I know iron can be a problem for some PD patients. I need to read the label again.
I checked the label of Primal Defense Ultra and did not see iron as an ingredient. How did you find out it has iron in it? Thanks
The label says 2 mg iron from ionic plant based minerals for 10% of the daily value.
amazon.com/Garden-Life-Whol...
vitacost.com/garden-of-life...
amazon.com/Garden-Life-Whol...
Art
Article says it has only been tested in roundworms, not even mice or humans.
Yes I am aware. Waiting for them to test on mice and then design trials with humans as test subjects is not an option for many who are running out of time (both due to age and progression of disease). Worst case scenario - it does no good.
It's not going to hurt you! My Pd husband has taken this for years with Primal Defense Ultra.
Sounds very similar to Mannitol, but maybe without the osmotic diuretic side effects
For those who are interested - the whole document
ProbioticBacillus SubtilisProtects againsta-Synuclein Aggregation in C. elegans
Thank HUUUUUuuu John_morris71
I have found on line a few probiotics with Bacillus Subtilis but not the specific strain. One good one is by Dr. Axe.
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