Would like some input on these machines, which are about the size of bathroom scales and are used to exercise and tone the body. I've read that they can also help with increasing bone density. They cost around £200 and have an oscillating, or side to side/rocking motion. There is another type of action which is pulsating, and a machine sold in the UK called a Marodyne, which has been specifically designed for osteoporosis. They claim lots of trials and positive results, but I can't find any evidence online. It costs a whacking £2500 - that's with the VAT taken off if you've osteoporosis, which I have. There are lots of bone strengthening exercises, specifically for increasing bone strength, and so the oscillating models should be able to help sufficiently, as it would result in muscle pulling on bone and thereby strengthening it.......? There is a company called Vibration Therapeutic, in USA, which seems to make a model with a pulsating action, but they called it linear (action). It's about £350, but not practical for me to buy here in the UK - if you consider things going wrong, spare parts etc. Hope someone can shed some light on my query
Low intensity vibration devices. - Bone Health and O...
Low intensity vibration devices.
If you search the forum for 'Marodyne' or 'Bluefin' you should find several posts on the subject.
There is a vast difference between the plates. The Marodyne has no contraindications and is certified by the British Standards as a Class lla medical device, plus has numerous research papers avaliable (online) to support it's efficacy.The Bluefin has a list of contraindications, one of which is osteoporosis.
melioguide.com/osteoporosis...
Thank you for your response. I've contacted the BSI as to how they assessed the Marodyne - are there any assessments as to its efficacy by independent bodies? There will, of course be those done by the manufacturers. The Royal Osteoporosis Society has a section on vibration therapy. 'Unlike the WBV (whole body vibration - like the large machines in gyms, which are definitely too powerful for the elderly and those with osteoporosis) there are no medical restrictions on LIV (low intensity vibration) therapy. LIV and the devices that offerthis treatment have been specifically designed to ensure there are no contra-indications or side effects from use.' Their information also said that some research shows benefit from using them, whilst other doesn't. I've spoken to the ROS, asking if they endorse the Marodyne. They said they are not able to do so, as more research needs to be done as to its efficacy - though they are very interested in its possibilities. I've googled bluefin and contraindications and can't specifically find any re osteoporosis. I wouldn't get a bluefin anyway and would only use an LIV plate on the lowest setting. All in all, I'm trying to do as much research as I can.
The Marodyne LiV does not have settings. It is calibrated to .4g at 30Hertz. I suggest you contact them for additional papers.
Bluefin who can't use bluefinfitness.com/who-cann....
Good luck, hope you find the answers you're looking for.
Personally I love mine, I was and am worth the investment I made.
Thank you! I'd be interested to know if you've had a DEXA scan since you've been using it and if your bone density has increased. Re contacting them for additional papers - my point re research is whether it has been done by independent bodies, and not just by the manufacturer. I will contact them. Thanks again.
Hi erigeron, I found out about the Marodyne LiV when I stumbled upon this video on Youtube youtube.com/watch?v=JHx1U_K... I highly recommend watching the entire video as it's got some interesting information about Osteoporosis & exercise. In it, they mention a study by Kirsten Ness from St Judes Hospital & I think I've found said study at this link. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
I purchased a Marodyne LiV but I won't know if it's working for me or not until my next scan. I'm in Australia & over here it's a registered medical device with the Therapeutic Goods Administration & yes, it cost a pretty penny ($5137 in total with Postage). I didn't realise as it wasn't mentioned in the video, but when I mentioned Melioguide & Margaret Martin (the Canadian Physiotherapist in the video) I got a $300 discount.
When you get your next DEXA please post the results. It’s so hard to find info from individuals about if the Marodyne LiV actually helped to increase bone density.
Hi could you please repost the link to that video (or name of it) as the link doesn't work for me thank you
I considered getting the Marodyne LiV and as you’ve pointed out, it’s hard, practically impossible, to find personal reviews. I would never get/use a WBV plate because they can cause damage—detached retinas being one.
I have another DEXA scheduled for this November, and if it doesn’t show at least some improvement, I may reconsider getting a Marodyne LiV.
Also, you might want to check out Osteostrong.me. If there were an Osteostrong w/i 2 hours of my home, I would start their program. Unfortunately, the closest one to me is 4 hours away.
I've briefly checked out Osteostrong.me and don't like what I see. It mentions fractures caused by not using their machines properly.... It seems to be a franchise. I wanted to point out that it was difficult to find independent (scientific) research - personal reviews are plentiful. What are you doing currently re improving your bone density?
Short answer, everything I can w/i reason. Diet-wise, I given up coffee—every once in a while I’ll indulge in a half-caf. I’ve completely given up colas. I have NCGS (non-celiac gluten sensitivity) so I avoid gluten, and be avoiding gluten, I avoid many processed foods. I make sure to have at list a little yogurt, sauerkraut, kim chi, or apple cider vinegar every day. I have started using protein powder to make sure I get plenty of protein—I drink 1/2 of a serving in 8 oz of 1% milk daily. I was already taking calcium, vitamin D, and fish oil supplements every day, and I’ve added K2, magnesium, and a multi-vitamin, and I changed my calcium supplements. I was taking 2, 600 mg calcium carbonate vitamins daily. After searching for information on how the body absorbs calcium and learning the max amount it can absorb at once is 500 mg, I switched to citracal petites and I now take 2, 200 mg citracal petites daily and my multi-vitamins contains 220 mg of calcium carbonate and I make sure to get the rest of my calcium from food sources—my goal is to space calcium intake throughout the day—I try to take a last dose of calcium right before I go to bed. Also I eat 6 prunes everyday and 1 serving of almonds at least 5 days a week.Additionally, I’ve recently added 1 can of sardines a week (usually make it two servings so I might have sardines for lunch on say Monday and Thursday). I recently tried liver because I really wanted to add one serving a week to my diet but, yuke! But I have totally given up on this plan. I plan to try calf’s liver and I found a recipe for ppl who don’t like the taste of liver.
Exercise-wise, I broke my one long daily walk into 2, 20 minutes walks, and I joined a gym as soon as the pandemic permitted, so this last January—I go at least 3 times a week. I use the equipment and I do the farmer’s carry for approximately .1 to .25 miles carrying weights in each had—started at 2, 10lbs currently at 2, 15lbs twice a wk and 2, 17.5lbs 1 a week.
I do 100 heal drops at least 5 days per week and I’m up to 35-40 push-ups which I do a few days a wk.
I just order a pair of minimalist shoes but they are too small so I have to get the next size up—if you search melio guide minimalist shoes you will find the info behind why I’m switching to minimalist shoes.
I’ve also finally reached out to my primary care physician to get a referral to a new endocrinologist because my current endocrinologist is just not very good—very unhappy with him.
Future goals include making my own bone broth and drinking one cup a day but that probably won’t happen for a few months.
Right now my biggest concern is that my next DEXA is in November and I’ve been doing all of these things to improve my bones and I just want to be mentally prepared in case my BMD hasn’t improved. 😂
I had to give up using minimalist shoes and heel drops - they caused very sore feet and be careful where you wear them as they don’t have protective soles so you can get cuts from sharp objects. I suspect I had a minor fracture in my right foot because I couldn’t put any weight on it for about 3 weeks, caused by heel drops so I gave those up. I go barefoot on carpet indoors most of the time but I have podiatrist inserts to keep my feet in alignment for outdoor walking. This has lessened pain in joints and muscle spasms greatly.
Hi FoF,
Thanks for all this information. Re the almonds, and nuts in general. These contain phytic acid which hinders the absorption of calcium (as I understand) and so it's best to soak them for, say, 12 hours, before eating. I believe this is also true of pulses/beans/legumes (depending on where you are in the world!). And I always throw away the soak water and rinse thoroughly. Since reading the article below I've added isoflavones and silica, boron, and manganese (in a balanced bone support complex) and collagen to my supplements.
biocare.co.uk/news/how-to-s... has a good article on bone health.
I'd have copied and pasted this info, but it's too long an article. I've no wish to advertise the company!
BTW there is a new link on HealthUnlocked on the effects of bisphosphonates - it's confirmed me in my wish to avoid them.
Hi F/F, Just a thought, but how old are you? (I'm 73) I ask, because as we get older we tend to lose stomach acid, so I'm taking some Betaine HCL with my supplements/meals to help with absorption.
I'm 53. I now take 40 mg of famotidine daily. My prescription is for twice a day but I really want to get stop taking it so I only take it at night time or 1, 40 mg pill a day. I saw my gastroenterologist a few months ago and asked him about completely stopping the famotidine and about taking digestive enzymes. He said that most likely I do have some acid reflux and that if acid reflux goes untreated that people can get used to it and then at night when experiencing acid reflux without any real symptoms that food can get in your lungs so he recommended that I stay on the famotidine. Regarding the digestive enzymes, he said that my pancreas is fine which means it is creating the enzymes that I need and that if I start supplementing with digestive enzymes that will simply make my pancreas decrease or stop creating those enzymes.
Thank you for mentioning the Betaine HCL and I will add it to my list of things to look into/consider, but my current short term goals are to
- continue doing what I have been doing since about January of this year.
- Try wearing minimalist shoes.
- Go to my endocrinologist this week and ask about having bone turnover marker test(s). This is completely messed up because my endocrinologist didn't get a baseline test, but I think it would be a good idea for me to get one now before 12 months have passed since my zoledronic acid infusion. I also need to get my endocrinologist to include on my DEXA referral that I need to have a TBS (trabecular bone score) and to have my forearm scanned.
- If I don't hear back from the imaging facility that did my previous scans (sent them an email last week asking if they do TBS and forearm scanning) to reach out to them again or find a facility that can accommodate this.
- Follow-up with primary care doctor about referral she was supposed to be sending to a new endocrinologist. I'm sick and tired of my endocrinologist and his dropping the ball on my care, and I am trying to find a doctor who actually wants to work with a patient that is willing to make the effort to reverse bone loss naturally if possible.
- Have my DEXA scan in November, approximately one year after having had my 1st zoledronic acid infusion.
- NOT have a second zoledronic acid infusion. Currently I'm scheduled to have a 2nd dose in November 2022. Without the other info, my TBS, a better understanding of how bisphosphonates work (which my current endocrinologist wasn't able to provide and he wasn't willing to put in the effort to find out), ruling out secondary causes for my osteoporosis, which again my endocrinologist failed to do, he didn't even do a 24 hour urine calcium test before slapping me on meds, etc. I want to skip the infusion and try some natural methods and re-evaluate.
- Discuss with my new endocrinologist, my new OB/GYN, and my new primary care doctor, the possibility of trying HRT. Yes, lots of new doctors. It's too long of a story to explain.
So long story short, I really don't want to make any more changes before my DEXA in November because I want to establish if the things I am currently doing are working or not.
Note, I am considering switching the form of calcium supplements that I take from calcium citrate to Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite, but again if I make this change it will not be until after November 2022.
Seaweed has excellent health benefits. Purchase dehydrated, rehydrate and add to almost any food.There are personal testermonials on Marodyne LiV websites worldwide. The Green Goddess, Diana Moran has used it successfully for many years, I recently saw an interesting article in the Telegraph. Independant surgeons and consultants too.
There are numerous clinical papers, not written 'by the manufacturer ' showing positive results, interestingly in children as well, using the same machine.
Does no harm was enough for me, the immediate benefits have been evident from the get go. I wasn't prepared to spend time waiting to see other people's results while my condition worsened. As individuals, we respond to treatments in different ways, it is impossible to judge outcomes unless we try it for ourself.
Thanks for this response. I'd be interested to see the article in Telegraph - do you have an online link?
I've found the link. Though the article says that the ROS supports the device - it doesn't. I spoke to them and they are very interested in it, but can't endorse it as they are waiting to see more evidence that it works. Dr Stone, in the article, says 'You have to be careful not to overcall this kind of new device ... but the research is good....' - which isn't unqualified endorsement. I'm not being negative - just wanting to get things in perspective.
I think you will find ROS is encouraged by the possibilities for the device. They advocate the use of meds, which many people decide to use or not use. They are a guide to allow people to make their own decisions. The best way to find out is to try for yourself. Doctors give us pills to take, we take them hoping they will work for US, regardless of the side effect profile or results experienced by others or the research avaliable to us. Everything is a personal choice.It is possible to search an entire lifetime for an answer we want but never find.
For me, the evidence was sufficient the results, beyond my expectation.
Thanks. Just wondering whether you've had a DEXA scan showing positive results from using the Marodyne - an increase in bone density?
I really interested in the Marodyne LiV platform also. I don't know why it is so difficult to find positive reviews with actually proof of increased BMD. Seems like ppl would want to share if it was actually working. If you look up the website Inspire (or app) there is a USER ID Londoner who about 10 years ago posted that her mother who was 80 at the time saw significant improvements in her hips and spine after using LIV.
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