Butter: I am new to heart disease could... - British Heart Fou...

British Heart Foundation
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Butter

Tigerbermuda1972
Tigerbermuda1972

I am new to heart disease could anyone tell me if there is a healthy alternative to butter.Than you.

131 Replies
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Yes. Butter but in moderation.

I'd lob in a 'lol!' but you're right, I think. Unsalted and made spreadable with a few drops of extra virgin olive oil blended in a food processor or mini-chopper. A little goes a long way.

The thing is, none of these things are going to make a huge difference in small amounts. It's the accumulation over time that causes harm.

If it's taken a pat of butter a day over your lifetime to get where you are, a smear on some toast on a Sunday really isn't going to matter!

I even still put salt on my chips! But I only have chips maybe once a month now :)

True. And you've made me laugh a little about chips - we had chips last night (soooo good!) and I could smell the salt on my husband's from the other end of the sofa. The wafting aroma didn't inspire me to sprinkle a bit of salt on mine, I'm glad to say I like mine unsalted now I'm used to it. Even a small amount of salt doesn't have any appeal now.

To be honest, I was a little naughty with that example because blood pressure really isn't a worry for me so salt's not a high priority.

In fact, at my last GP appointment when I was trying to convince him to stop my remaining (minimum) dose of candesartan because BP drops into the 80s after most workouts he advised keeping the ARB for other protective effects and increasing salt to compensate!

Wow, how much of an increase did he advise?

My salt restriction is to keep fluid retention down - excess seems to go straight to my pericardium.

BP not a worry for me, either, nor is cholesterol and plaque - after my angio in November 2019 I had the two cardiologists and all the nurses telling me they wished they had my crystal clear arteries. I went home and made jacket potatoes for lunch and felt NO guilt loading mine up with lots of lovely unsalted butter! (That was a one-off, usually I'm more sensible).

He didn't specify - seems reasonably happy for me to self-manage after he realised I'd thrown the "safe" exercise guidelines out the window and all my numbers were going the right way.

I haven't actively followed his suggestion but have eased up a bit on obsessively avoiding the stuff. Myfitnesspal is estimating I'm averaging around 2500mg a day, so not high but not in "cut your salt right back" territory either.

It seems to have helped until I started the C25K during lockdown. Up to 28 minute continuous runs now & with the extra intensity I'm back to the high 80s / low 90s afterwards. Overall average last month was 99/63 so not likely to pop any blood vessels!

No symptoms at that so, as long as it doesn't drop more, I'll just keep enjoying the chips as God intended :D

Smileyian
Smileyian in reply to Sunnie2day

I just swear by good Sourdough bread which is very popular here in Singapore. Sooo healthy and free of all those nasty E's.

There is a very good alternative but not want to advertise. It helps lower cholesterol. PA butter flavor

I make my own and I use coconut oil amongst other things. Thought it might be healthier than trans fat or palm oil margarine. Some people spread olive oil on bread and wherever you would use butter.

What other changes will you be making to your diet?

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to TRST

You might be interested to know that coconut oil is actually higher in saturated fats than butter!!

mayoclinic.org/dont-get-tri...

TRST
TRST in reply to Lezzers

But apparently lowers the bad cholesterol despite this :)

bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl...

From the BBC website:

For LDL cholesterol, associated with an increased risk of heart disease:

For butter, study participants had an average increase in LDL cholesterol by 0.3 millimoles per litre, representing a rise of around 10%. The increased risk to heart health reverted back again once the regime was stopped.

For olive oil, there was a very small average reduction which was not statistically significant. This means there was essentially no difference in LDL cholesterol with participants on the olive oil diet.

For coconut oil, LDL cholesterol decreased by 0.09 millimoles per litre. This was also not statistically significant, so overall the results show there was no increase in LDL cholesterol for the coconut oil group.

In our study, coconut oil did not raise ‘bad’ cholesterol, despite being high in saturated fat. It also seemed to increase ‘good’ cholesterol.

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to TRST

The mayo link does says that it's not been proven that it lowers cholesterol. Probably best to agree to disagree on this one ☺

My husband likes Bertolli but I hate it. It’s water based so if you put it on crackers they become soggy. If you have toast leave off the spread and just have sugar free jam or marmalade. I prefer butter so try to limit the amount I have.

I use Bertolli except I refuse to eat toast without butter - so there's a small stash of butter in the fridge for when it's time for some toast 🧈🍞

I use bertolli now & then or a small bit of butter as an occasional special treat. I rarely have any type of spread on toast, I usually just have beans, spaghetti, scrambled egg, tomatoes etc. Though not all at the same time! 😂

Handel
Handel in reply to Lezzers

😂 xxxx

What sort of bread are you using?

I bake my own. Sourdough starter, flour, water and yeast. I use white, wholemeal and Rye flours

We buy all ours from a local sourdough bakery, it's simply delicious. I don't think people realise what rubbish is in mass produced bread.

I have serious bakery envy going on about your local. I asked at mine and all I got was a blank look and the question 'What's sourdough?'.

sigh

Oh dear. Where do you live? Honestly the one we use is fantastic, but it is on the Outskirts of Nottingham. For anyone interested it is called the Small Food Bakery, check them out on Instagram Sunnie, it will defo make you salivate.

I know it would - sourdough bread done right is absolutely heavenly. I lived in San Francisco for two years in the late 1970s and there was a bakery on Pier 39 that made sourdough so delicious with such an incredible aroma I could smell it from the car park.

Hard to find good sourdough and even harder to make where I live in NE Scotland, sad to say.

I suppose things could be worse it might have been NW Scotland! I will have an extra slice for you at lunchtime:)

Brilliant new bakery in York-Little Arras. Wonderful sourdough

Bit of a drive but next time we're down that way I'll be sure to look for it, thank-you!

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Sunnie2day

Sunnie I have been to pier 39 in San Franciso. The bread is indeed devine😊

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day in reply to Milkfairy

Isn't it just? I'd buy three or four loaves and eat one on the way back to the house. The scent would fill the car and make me hungry, there just was no waiting to get that bread home!

Imin
Imin in reply to Sunnie2day

Is sourdough healthier than wholemeal bread?

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day in reply to Imin

As to that, I really don't know. All I know is a cheese toastie on sourdough is the ultimate comfort food - anything on sourdough is the ultimate comfort food!

Smileyian
Smileyian in reply to Sunnie2day

We better open a sourdough bakery in Camster Burn area Sunnie

Sunnie2day
Sunnie2day in reply to Smileyian

That would be Heaven indeed! We live in Angus but my folk are Caithness and we go up once a year to visit graves. If you're still there, truly you live in God's Country (apologies to the Yorkshire folks but it is what it is:) ) - my husband is Morayshire so we compromised and live in Angus!

Smileyian
Smileyian in reply to Sunnie2day

Oh I wish I lived in Caithness having sourdough toast and freelance chook eggs every morning. Sadly I have lived in Singapore for 20 years and this is my home now. I will visit Camster Burn before I pass on and not fall in like you did so many years ago. 77 next year and hope my Angina stays at a minimal level or if not, I have a stent procedure later on. You take care and keep giving all the patients on here the benefit of your valuable advice. Angina is not a death sentence huh !

I use Benecol and Flora spreads. Both claim to reduce cholesterol. Since replacing butter (apart from on scones or croissants) with these alter so and taking statins my cholesterol level has dropped by more than 50% in 12 months.

Are these processed foods healthier than what nature provides?

Depends on which of nature's products. Olive oil is probably healthier but not great on toast, scones etc and not so good for baking. Butter, cream and full cream milk are natural products and are high in fat so not so good for your heart. Everything in moderation and eat a balanced diet is key.

I agree totally rockie1952. From my point of view, societally we've lost track of how little we need of the toast and scones you mention before our body's capacity to store carbohydrate are exceeded, and we start converting them into the fat we avoided eating, day after day, year after year, and our society's chronic ill-health persists, so we blame it on genes for instance.

All "good" things in moderation, not every day.

You can cook with Benecol as well, my wife uses it all the time now. Lets be honest, anyone with Heart disease should be cutting butter out, full stop.

I upticked you because I know you're right about butter. But...back away from my unsalted butter or things will 'get ugly':)

Handel
Handel in reply to Sunnie2day

😂 xxxx

valezio
valezio in reply to rockie1952

I also use Benecol & it definitely does reduce cholesterol. I can’t have statins as they caused many problems for me. I would highly recommend Benecol. rockie1952 that’s an excellent drop for your cholesterol, well done x

The Flora stuff is good as well though.

I will try that, I have heard good reports about it. Thanks. Take care xxx

Prl43
Prl43 in reply to valezio

Hi I'm new here, does Benecol really work. I also are having a lot of problems with statins. Any other advice you could give me regarding alternative for statins please.

valezio
valezio in reply to Prl43

Hello again. I’m sorry to hear you also have problems with statins, I think there is an alternative tablet if you can’t take statins, ask your doctor about it. It may help you. Statins just had to be stopped for me as there was muscle damage (a blood test reveals that) and also I had pains in my legs and shoulders. I can say for definite Benecol really does help bring your cholesterol level down. Don’t be afraid to ask your Dr or a nurse practitioner for advice. Good luck, hope things improve for you, take care xxx

Prl43
Prl43 in reply to valezio

Thank you

people2
people2 in reply to Prl43

Stains are the worst thing, I had a lot of problems and looked them up. Then after reading about them,it was enough for me. No more, change other things I'm sure you can find another good result with changes to food choices etc.

Olive oil.

Use olive oil spreads for toast and sarnies, but it has to be butter for mash and on pasta.

Hidden
Hidden

Try and get your GP too specify your nutrition (unlikely) so go to nutrition .org. THere are 6 KPI substances with daily intakes. Butter is high in fat so limit it. Sodium can also be bad for some heart conditions. Google nutrition and you will find many papers on heart disease then try and have a 2nd conversation with your GP. GPs have dieticians but not many have nutritionalist. Physios are though. Good luck. It can all go into your Apple phone and it will be seen against your vitals

The harmful VLDL comes from eating too much carbohydrate xperthealth.org.uk/product/... , this from the manual issued to people on an NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme.

But that is for Type 2 Diabetes not heart Disease, do you actually have Heart Disease?

You can see it's actually for preventing insulin resistance that can underpin many chronic ill-health conditions.

Yes but do you actually have heart Disease? This is a Heart disease forum.

My husband has heart disease - most likely cause - Type 2 diabetes! So very relevant!

If you don't mind me asking, what caused his Diabetes?

Poor diet, too much sugar and not enough exercise! He had a contracting business with diggers and similar machines on hire to local authorities etc. He didn't eat breakfast, was starving by mid morning and having a sweet tooth would go for the sweet bakery offerings instead of a sandwich. He also eats very little veg - his diet now is still heavily carb - despite everything I do to add in the veg. Habits learned as a child are difficult to break - his mum loaded stuff with sugar (a legacy of wartime rationing!)

Use good olive oil it is simply the best

It is about having a sensible amount. The best ratio is 1.5:1 monounsaturates to saturates, the same as our body's fat, with only small amounts of EFAs.

When natural saturates increase cholesterol, they tend to increase the good cholesterol as well as the LDL.

The small, harmful VLDL is formed from eating too much carbohydrate, as confirmed by providers xperthealth.org.uk/product/... of an NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme.

Hi, I have been using benecol buttery spread, it has all the right fats for good cholesterol.

Butter in moderation for me too. It is far more natural than any man-made product.

Butter is made from Cows milk, which is intended for feeding up baby cows, not humans, what makes you think it is natural? Do you know that all humans are actually born lactose intolerant?

Well for the small amount I have, I still prefer it to eating margarine and spreads. I also prefer skimmed milk to water on my breakfast cereal.

The breakfast cereal one is tricky, I agree. I usually have jumbo Oat porridge but to be honest it have been giving me a few problems lately and I have swapped to Weetabix for a few days while I get an alternative porridge, but if your going to have cereal I can't imagine anyone would use water. I have tried Oat milk on it and although it works well generally as a substitute it's not great on cereal. Having said this most cereals are full of salt and sugar so we probably should be cutting them out.

Scottish porridge was always made with water. It was then often eaten with ‘top of the milk’ and salt!!

Handel
Handel in reply to Janma123

I make my porridge with water and add a bit of milk and a bit of home made jam!!! xx

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to Janma123

That's how my mum always made it, it was gorgeous. I make mine with water, a dash of milk & top it with blueberries. 😋

We're born intolerant to our mother's milk? Really? What evidence is there for that?

I agree that cows' milk isn't ideal in itself because it is too high in protein, but as part of a balanced diet, that provides things naturally in the proportions that our body uses.

I feel your being a little obtuse here but anyway, adults lose the ability to metabolise lactose, as it is intended for babies. Cows milk is intended for baby cows, which is why it is not a "natural" product for humans to consume. It's intended to make baby cows grow into big cows.

That can't be true or the human race would have died out by now.

What can't be true?

Your assertion that all humans are born lactose intolerant.

OK I stand corrected on "Born" intolerant, Milkfairy has described it more accurately, but the point I was making is that Butter is not a "natural" product, as Humans were not meant to consume cows milk.

The dairy industry also contributes significantly to Greenhouse gasses and is also pretty nasty as regards animal rights.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to lateguitarist

The term ' natural' is interesting it comes with the belief that it is somehow better.

Very little of the food we eat is natural or truly unprocessed.

Human beings are omnivores our teeth and digestive system designed to eat a wide variety of different food.

This will include meat and milk products from other mammals cows, goats and sheep.

Humans have been processing their food for thousands of years. Taking wheat grains processing them through milling , kneading and baking to make bread.

Milk to make cheese

Fermentating and salting food to preserve food through the winter.

Making oils from olives etc

Canning and drying pulses, vegetables and fruit.

Even jam is a processed food.

Camel's milk is given to children in some parts of the world.

What we eat is influenced by our culture, availability, income, knowledge of how to cook, and personal beliefs.

I am off to process my sourdough into bread .

Kneading bread is very good therapy 😊

bbc.com/future/article/2019...

The UK dairy industry is highly regulated and animals are well cared for and well treated. Modern dairy cows are bred to produce large quantities of milk and frequently do not have the mothering instinct to raise a calf.

You can dress it up all you wish, but at the end of the day the animals are kept consistently artificially pregnant. The milk industry contributes 3% of Greenhouse gasses.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to lateguitarist

Lactose is the sugar found in all mammals milk including human milk.

It is not uncommon for a child as they grow to become intolerant of lactose. This is more common in some parts of the world than others reflected in the traditional diets having minimal dairy products .

It is not uncommon for babies to be intolerant of cows milk which is why breastfeeding is encouraged by midwives and other healthcare professionals

Very rarely some babies are born with true lactose intolerance and fail to put weight on, have skin rashes and have alot of pain due to gastric problems. These are babies that cry a great deal and it's a pretty miserable experience for the parents and the baby.

More often lactose intolerance is often temporary and may occur if a baby has an allergic reaction cow's milk protein in their mother's breast milk, formula milk , infection or antibiotics.

kellymom.com/health/baby-he...

True, in fact humans are the only species that continue consuming milk and milk products after weaning, so there's very little truly natural about that. In fact many of our staples are not particularly natural or good for us, just cheap to produce in volume, refined grains for instance, and all the other carbs.

Heythrop51
Heythrop51 in reply to tunybgur

Low fat dairy products are good sources of protein and calcium!

tunybgur
tunybgur in reply to Heythrop51

Totally agree with you, the point I was making is that we as a society are reliant upon industrial processes to feed us (although there are still a few 'hunter gatherers' in existence, the Inuit, certain Amazonian tribes etc) but by and large we are fed heavily processed foods which are energy rich but also the source of most of our modern ailments, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, cancer, obesity etc.

Hello, I’m afraid I’m old fashioned in this respect. I actually find the best thing to be butter, but use it in moderation. I really don’t trust any alternatives with their various additives. Having said that if there is a natural vegetarian or vegan alternative, I haven’t tried it.

Thank you

Thank you

We only use olive oil based spreads now.🥪

I use Flora there are different types along with statins it seems to keep my cholesterol stable

Benecol with Olive Oil

You are right that processed foods are not necessarily healthier. All the spreads and highly processed & full of additives. I'm staying with butter .

diabetes.co.uk/

This may be a better forum for all your diabetes chats. This is a Heart ❤️ forum

Good luck

Prada47
Prada47 in reply to gilreid1

Diabetes and Hearts are almost always mentioned in the same sentence. What a strange observation that this is only a Heart Forum.

Regards

Handel
Handel in reply to Prada47

Well said xxx

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Prada47

Sorry but since my Heart operation it has never been mentioned to me about diabetes. Maybe because I don’t have or show any symptoms. That’s why I joined the British HEART foundation forum.

Sorry for my misunderstanding

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to gilreid1

Heart disease & diabetes are very much linked. If you attend the heart clinic at your surgery & have regular blood tests done, it'll usually include a test for diabetes.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to gilreid1

The British Heart Foundation

carries out research into cardiovascular disease and risk factors of heart disease one of which is diabetes.

Diabetes is very much related to heart disease so yes it is relevant and the BHF collaborates with other charities to research into diabetes, strokes and vascular dementia to name just a few.

bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/our-r...

bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/our-r...

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Milkfairy

🙇🏼‍♂️I never said the BHF did not. My point is that a separate forum is available for people with diabetes.

My god is it that big an issue to only be concerned with heart issues. 🤷‍♂️

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to gilreid1

Perhaps consider Prada' s words

'A little bit of thought before you post. You obviously didn't understand the link between Diabetes and Heart Conditions'

My late father died early due to the effects of diabetes on his cardiovascular system.

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to gilreid1

Diabetes and heart disease are closely linked. Elevated blood sugars cause irritation that is often a precursor to plaque formation. Well controlled blood sugars help control this irritation as do statins and Vitamin C. Many Type II diabetics develop heart disease. Also many people develop heart disease after a heart attack/stents/heart surgery. Some believe that the trauma may contribute to the development.

Saying it is not relevant is like saying smoking and obesity are not relevant!

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to MichaelJH

Who said it was not relevant. I really wish people would read carefully.

To think someone asking for an alternative to butter would cause all this commotion.

Sad really Sad.

Nope not had that. And my good friend who has diabetes has never been invited to the heart clinic. Maybe a bit like TV. Only available in England. 😂😂

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to gilreid1

Are you on any medication?

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Lezzers

Of course after a HA and stent then a triple bypass I am on the usual meds

Atorvastatin. Ticagrelor. Bisoprolol. And aspirin.

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Lezzers

Sorry should have asked. What is your heart condition?

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to gilreid1

I don't have a heart condition, my husband has heart failure

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Lezzers

? Whoa 😳 so you comment on issues you have no personal experience of. That’s one of the reasons I don’t get involved with diabetes discussions. I have no experience in that illness and Dr Google I try to avoid.

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to gilreid1

How rude, you're very defensive!! I commented because heart disease and diabetes are very much linked! My husband has just had his annual bloods done at his heart clinic and as usual the tests included diabetes. Not sure why you object to my knowing that information, don't need Dr Google for that.

Prada47
Prada47 in reply to gilreid1

Hi Gil

Your out of your depth Heart Clinics are for Heart Failure any other cardiac clinic is normally Consultant Cardiologist led.

In Aberdeen the Heart Failure Clinic is in the Frederick Street Health Complex. Sarah is excellent.

Diabetes is closely linked with Heart Issues you will be checked for Diabetes as a matter of course should you present with Heart Issues.

Stay well Stay safe

Boo_boo1
Boo_boo1 in reply to Prada47

Second thing they check is blood sugar after blood pressure. Oh wait, third thing after BP & HR. Diabetes is one of those conditions that is closely monitored in heart health.

TRST
TRST in reply to Boo_boo1

After many years of heart disease I have never once been checked for diabetes 😀. I have been asked if I have it, to which I answer 'I have no idea'.

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Prada47

I attended Frederick st clinic. Not sure how you think after I have had a HA filled by emergency Stent followed by a triple bypass operation I am out of my depth. Was not aware this was a competition but please advise what I need next to qualify

Prada47
Prada47 in reply to gilreid1

A little bit of thought before you post. You obviously didn't understand the link between Diabetes and Heart Conditions

I also had my by pass surgery in Aberdeen oh and my heart attack treatment, I had my stents 3 years later in the Bournemouth Royal !!!

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Prada47

I think I am having a nightmare here. Thought about what. I don’t have diabetes. I don’t know about diabetes. I don’t want diabetes. So why would I need to understand about something I don’t have. So that’s way I don’t comment on diabetes.

Very confusing but never mind tomorrow is another day and another round of golf awaits 🥳

Prada47
Prada47 in reply to gilreid1

I hope the golf clears your head Playing at Hazelhead or the links or Nigg even

Regards

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Prada47

Cruden Bay

Prada47
Prada47 in reply to gilreid1

Nearly as good as Lossiemouth but myself prefer Dornoch.

Enjoy

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to Prada47

Ouch. You need to play Trump. Magnificent. My best mate was a member at lossie for many years. Unfortunately time has passed it by regarding condition and amenities

Prada47
Prada47 in reply to gilreid1

I was at the opening of Trump have the brolly and a few boxes of Balls Donald gave to my son !!!

Only thing I miss is the Golf but Royal Tain Golspie & Brora were my local courses for quite few years before moving to Abz Mind you Montrose links are pretty good !!

take Care

MichaelJH
MichaelJHHeart Star in reply to Prada47

No green keeper wants to hear "It's raining, it's pouring, the golf course is flooding". We are having our second storm of the day here. The minor flooding from eaier is being topped up! ⚡🌧️

gilreid1
gilreid1 in reply to MichaelJH

Never every rains on the course when you are playing.

Not being rude at all. I am merely starting my situation as a survivor of heart surgery.

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to gilreid1

As was I, merely commenting using my experience of dealing with my husbands heart condition ☺

And I am sure you are doing a great job.

Lezzers
Lezzers in reply to gilreid1

Don't doubt it ☺

I always find it interesting that people with valve repairs often, but not always, have clear arteries without high levels of plaque/stenosis, in contrast to bypass patients who often have blocked arteries but do not always have valve problems. .

It must be very frustrating for apparently fit people who follow apparently healthy diets, to be told the they have arteries that are blocked or are becoming blocked. The relationship between sugar consumption and insulin levels seems to be critical in avoiding the creation of plaque.

Perhaps the problem lies in the difficulty in recording and identifying insulin levels. Testing for sugar is a simple blood test, as is cholesterol , weight can be measured, as can blood pressure, Improvements in fitness can be recorded by doing beep tests, but without knowing what is happening with insulin levels an informed judgement cannot be made.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Ianc2

What about those of us living with non obstructive coronary artery disease?

No blockages doesn't mean you can't have a heart attack.

Approximately 6 % of heart attacks occur without blocked coronary arteries .

Ianc2
Ianc2 in reply to Milkfairy

Hi Milkfairy

Mysteries, riddles and enigmas. It appears your one if your roles in life is to educate the medical profession, to demonstrate to the rest of us that life is never simple and to shine a light on complex conditions that are difficult to diagnose, challenging to deal with and are not open to changes and improvements in diet, increasing exercise levels and generally applying all the usual rules regarding dealing with heart problems. No easy answers.

StillConcerned
StillConcerned in reply to Ianc2

If we listen to conventional wisdom, it does indeed appear that there are no easy answers.

Remember the jibe that scientists worked out that a bee couldn't fly, but bees fly regardless? The point is that science can explain things, but incorrect theories can lead to incorrect conclusions.

Milkfairy
MilkfairyHeart Star in reply to Ianc2

Hi lanc2

I couldn't prevent developing my condition however I do need to ensure I don't develop obstructive coronary artery as well.

This includes all the usual lifestyle measures to protect my blood vessels and heart as well as taking my medication 😊

080311
080311 in reply to Ianc2

I had AVR and bypass when I spoke to the surgeon after my surgery I said too much good living! He said my valve was just worn out! I was 68! He said you are either born with good genes or your not.

Blocked artery and a worn out valve!

Ianc2
Ianc2 in reply to 080311

Are you now a reformed character who likes to be good?

080311
080311 in reply to Ianc2

Absolutely, 😂

Hidden
Hidden

Margarines with plant Sterols to reduce cholesterol but watch how much salt is in them and the calories can be high.

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