Gravy

[juliesharp]

I had my gallbladder removed in April. Since then the pain and diahorrra I receive when I have any meal with gravy is horrid.

Any clues as to what in gravy to cause pain? I can eat the meat, potatoes and veg no gravy no pain but add gravy and ooww!

[Hidden]

I had my gallbladder removed in April. Since then the pain and diahorrra I receive when I have any meal with gravy is horrid.

Any clues as to what in gravy to cause pain? I can eat the meat, potatoes and veg no gravy no pain but add gravy and ooww!

My immediate thought is related to chlorine in the water used to make the gravy. When chlorinated water is boiled then it might become stronger or converted to another chemical compound.

The gall bladder deals with a naturally occurring chemical called bile. As your gallbladder has been removed then a different chemical process is occurring and it must be remembered that many types of medication following surgery do have uncomfortable side-effects that may vanish as time passes. Be patient and dodge the chlorinated boiled water.

[Janna123 in reply to Hidden]

I had my gallbladder removed in April. Since then the pain and diahorrra I receive when I have any meal with gravy is horrid.

Any clues as to what in gravy to cause pain? I can eat the meat, potatoes and veg no gravy no pain but add gravy and ooww!

My immediate thought is related to chlorine in the water used to make the gravy. When chlorinated water is boiled then it might become stronger or converted to another chemical compound.

The gall bladder deals with a naturally occurring chemical called bile. As your gallbladder has been removed then a different chemical process is occurring and it must be remembered that many types of medication following surgery do have uncomfortable side-effects that may vanish as time passes. Be patient and dodge the chlorinated boiled water.

Grownup70, the information you've given isn't technically correct. I don't want to be picky, but since this is a medical forum I think that all of the information should be as accurate as possible. For reference, I am a final year Biomedical Sciences student and am paraphrasing Fundamentals of Anatomy and Physiology, 9th edition, Martini et al.

The gallbladder's main function is to store bile. Bile is a fluid that is secreted by the liver through the bile canaliculi and into the gall bladder. Bile contains water, bile salts and enzymes The purpose of bile is to aid the digestion of lipids, and this is done by the bile salts through the process of emulsification. Bile is stored in the liver until the hormone CCK stimulates it's release into the duodenum.

When the gallbladder is removed, digestion is not massively affected. Bile is still produced in the liver and is still released into the duodenum, however the bile will be much more dilute and may not be released as soon as food arrives in the duodenum. The main issue is with foods high in lipids as the more dilute bile means that they may not be fully broken down during digestion.

Boiling water will actually remove chlorine altogether because gases become less soluble as temperature increases, so it's unlikey that it is the water causing the issue.

Julie, it's probably best to talk to your GP. Have you tried comparing the ingredients of the gravy to what you normally eat? There must be something in there that's decided to become evil!

[Hidden in reply to Janna123]

I had my gallbladder removed in April. Since then the pain and diahorrra I receive when I have any meal with gravy is horrid.

Any clues as to what in gravy to cause pain? I can eat the meat, potatoes and veg no gravy no pain but add gravy and ooww!

My immediate thought is related to chlorine in the water used to make the gravy. When chlorinated water is boiled then it might become stronger or converted to another chemical compound.

The gall bladder deals with a naturally occurring chemical called bile. As your gallbladder has been removed then a different chemical process is occurring and it must be remembered that many types of medication following surgery do have uncomfortable side-effects that may vanish as time passes. Be patient and dodge the chlorinated boiled water.

Grownup70, the information you've given isn't technically correct. I don't want to be picky, but since this is a medical forum I think that all of the information should be as accurate as possible. For reference, I am a final year Biomedical Sciences student and am paraphrasing Fundamentals of Anatomy and Physiology, 9th edition, Martini et al.

The gallbladder's main function is to store bile. Bile is a fluid that is secreted by the liver through the bile canaliculi and into the gall bladder. Bile contains water, bile salts and enzymes The purpose of bile is to aid the digestion of lipids, and this is done by the bile salts through the process of emulsification. Bile is stored in the liver until the hormone CCK stimulates it's release into the duodenum.

When the gallbladder is removed, digestion is not massively affected. Bile is still produced in the liver and is still released into the duodenum, however the bile will be much more dilute and may not be released as soon as food arrives in the duodenum. The main issue is with foods high in lipids as the more dilute bile means that they may not be fully broken down during digestion.

Boiling water will actually remove chlorine altogether because gases become less soluble as temperature increases, so it's unlikey that it is the water causing the issue.

Julie, it's probably best to talk to your GP. Have you tried comparing the ingredients of the gravy to what you normally eat? There must be something in there that's decided to become evil!

The information posted is about 43-years old. The surgeons who had dealt with gall bladder removal sixty-years ago are probably deceased but are likely to have left their knowledge in one format or another for future generations to learn from.

Chlorine is not the only chemical used in cooking processes and all chemicals can be converted when subjected to extremes of heat. When mixed together, they can create a new, medically harmful substance.

Biomedical science is used by a group who claim to be researching diabetes. However, the research has already been done and finished six-years ago by Professor Paul Trayhurn.

[Janna123 in reply to Hidden]

The information posted is about 43-years old. The surgeons who had dealt with gall bladder removal sixty-years ago are probably deceased but are likely to have left their knowledge in one format or another for future generations to learn from.

Chlorine is not the only chemical used in cooking processes and all chemicals can be converted when subjected to extremes of heat. When mixed together, they can create a new, medically harmful substance.

Biomedical science is used by a group who claim to be researching diabetes. However, the research has already been done and finished six-years ago by Professor Paul Trayhurn.

In science terms, you should always go for the most up to date information available but ensure that you reference the primary research. 43 years old is too old when it comes to information on functionality and physiology, we know so much more now than we did then due to advances in technology.

It's unlikely to be the water as I'm sure other people who have had their gall bladder removed can still have boiled water!

Biomedical science is the study of biomedicine, i.e the science involved in medicine. It covers everything from microbiology to genetics to biochemistry (basically everything to do with how the body works in health and disease, how disease states can be detected and how treatment interacts with the body). It is not just diabetes! I was not going to reply to you, but I felt I should explain what Biomedical Science is as I do not appreciate my degree being belittled by someone who doesn't understand even what it is. Biomedical scientists work in hospital labs as well as in research. Just because Professor Trayhurn has done some research into type-2 diabetes does not mean that that is it! Our knowledge is constantly growing and expanding, we will never stop researching any condition that has such a massive impact on lives.

Sorry for inadvertently starting an argument on your thread Julie.

I've being doing a bit of research (House style!) and gravy seems to be pretty high in saturated fats. When the gallbladder is removed your body isn't as responsive to fats that you eat and so the bile isn't released as soon as the fats enter the duodenum. Perhaps your body is miss calculating how much fat is in the food you eat- with gravy being a liquid it will be even harder to recognise. When you eat a meal without gravy, there will be less fat and so the low level/ mis-timed bile release would be less of an issue, especially with the food all being solid. Have you tried other liquids high in fats like cream? Do they have the same effect?

I don't think I've explained my thoughts to well- it's been a long day! Basically, I'm thinking along the lines of how the digestive system works. Digestion is first stimulated by the action of chewing, but you don't need additional chewing for gravy despite the meal containing additional fat (I say fat only because that's what the bile aids digestion of). The body is not as able to judge how much bile to release, but the chewing action will ready the release of some bile which is perhaps not enough. The pain may then be caused by the undigested lipids in you gut. Pancreatic lipase will break down the lipids, but without the bile the lipids will just clump together and slow digestion.

That may be completely off, but it kind of makes sense... a little bit...

[Annista]

Hi Julie

I just googled this question and there are loads of sites to go to for some help. I looked on this one at random but it might be worth trying other as well

nhs.uk/chq/pages/2443.aspx?...

As always, it is probably worth discussing with your GP.

[juliesharp]

Of course I have been to my GP.GP is mystified as most people have no problems after surgery. All the GP can recommend is avoid gravy for now and keep retrying once a month. As far as GP and gastro consultant go once gallbladder removed pain should be gone. I am type 1 brittle asthma. I see GP almost weekly. He is a fantastic GP.

I knew that it was not water causing the pain as I only drink cold water as my fluid intake. It must be ingredients in gravy with reduced bile.

[Hidden in reply to juliesharp]

Of course I have been to my GP.GP is mystified as most people have no problems after surgery. All the GP can recommend is avoid gravy for now and keep retrying once a month. As far as GP and gastro consultant go once gallbladder removed pain should be gone. I am type 1 brittle asthma. I see GP almost weekly. He is a fantastic GP.

I knew that it was not water causing the pain as I only drink cold water as my fluid intake. It must be ingredients in gravy with reduced bile.

You could save some money on gas or electricity bills by not eating any cooked food that mostly contain chemicals of some description. Raw fruits and vegetables are what birds and wild animals eat and they do not have their gallbladders removed but people have been kissing goodbye to them for sixty years or more. .

[juliesharp]

In english please

[juliesharp]

Hi Rachel

Your post makes a lot of sense. I had wondered if gravy was high in fat. Thank you for looking into it for me. It means a lot! When I first had surgery any fat content was a nightmare it has been a gradual introduction process. It was just I and my GP did not know the make up of gravy. High fat makes total sense. I did not start an argument but I knew it was not boiled water as I drank only that for weeks pre and post surgery with no pain.

Thank you for your research it actually confirmed my own guess.

Thank you Rachel!