68.3% of you had heard of the use of ... - Anxiety and Depre...
68.3% of you had heard of the use of psychedelics. Would you feel more confident in them if they were administered by your doctor?
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I would say maybe if I can be closely monitored by a doctor. Because I once suffered a very bad panic attack cause by some really strong or crappy weed. That left me traumatized. So if I can microdose it, they yes! Enthusiastically yes!
Is someone on commission for psychedelics? 😂
Seriously though, no. I'd ask my doctor if they were joking. It wouldn't suprise me though as the world has gone completely nuts in the last couple of years so why wouldnt they?
I have strong opinions of the nhs that I know some would disagree with, but from my experience they are little more than legal drug pushers these days. Not to say people who work for the nhs are bad, most are amazing people who deserve far more respect (and pay) than they get, but actually getting anything more than a prescription from gps these days is like asking camelot to give you next weeks lotto results. So I wouldnt be suprised if they started offering heroin, let alone psychedelics.
There's nothing "nuts" about using drugs to help people. If it wasn't for drugs we'd all be a lot worse off. That said, the NHS offers ZERO help for depression and anxiety, at least speaking for Scotland. If psychedelics actually worked it would be a stage higher than no help at all.
I'm really sorry that's been your experience. I've lived in Lothian; Lanarkshire and for the last 30+ years, Aberdeenshire and in each area the NHS has been superb in helping me with bi-polar 2 (emphasis on the depressive stage) and acute anxiety. I have had - still do - regular contact with my psychiatrist; hospitalisation when required; 3 full years each of weekly one - on - one psychotherapy visits (bloomin' hard work, and often very emotionally painful but very helpful!) and the same of psychology visits - which of course became phone consultations during the pandemic. I've had my drug regime frequently monitored, and adapted or altered as necessary and at every stage except when I was a child - I've been bi-polar since primary school age and first hospitalised at age 12, at which time psychiatric medicine was VERY different from nowadays - my views and input on the drugs prescribed have been valued and honoured. (The 6 months when I was 12 -13 were the stuff of horror stories - I thank God fasting, as the saying goes, that things have changed so much.)
Could you maybe ask your doctor for whatever type of help beyond drug treatment you feel would be most helpful for you? Or if your doctor is one of the cretins who pooh pooh mental illness, could you ask to see a different one next time? I do hope things improve for you and you find a doctor who'll put you in contact with the services that would suit YOU. (Be aware though that even pre-Covid I was on the waiting list for psychology for 18 months .. not ideal at all, but at least one knows there'll be light at the end of the tunnel.)
I found my psychologist was hugely helpful in getting me to feel able to examine truly traumatic events that I'd only trusted my late husband with, and it was both a relief and an eye opener to find how huge a role my reactive feelings had played in my life choices.
Good luck - I'll have my fingers crossed for you. 💐
Ive had nothing but grief from mental health system. Drugs that dont work or worse, quack psychs and abusive aides.
I agree. I don’t trust most doctors prescriptions these days. There are more antidepressants on the market today than ever before and more depressed people than ever before. Antidepressants have not curbed the depression level in the US at all. Why not?
I don't know what that is
ever hear about magic mushrooms? It's a drug people take to go on a "trip" because magic mushrooms contain Psilocybin. Which can make you see things and go on a ride.
But studies have shown that micro dosing which is taking a very little bit of psilocybin not even enough to get you high. Shown it helps with depression and anxiety. And rewire the brain and have a lasting impact for 3 months.
o right
used to take magic mushrooms every Autumn when they grew over here can`t say much more than that except had many a great time.
Think by what people are saying it needs to be a very small dose and monitored by the doctor.
There was a program on British TV about magic mushrooms being trialled in a London Hospital with Doctors present. Sounded great but when I asked my GP about it, he didn’t know anything about it. I would go on a Hospital Trial
I saw that and it was very interesting but I felt really sorry for one man who when treated reacted very well to the treatment and was back to his real self after years of deep depression but couldn’t continue treatment after trial period was over as none of the doctors like yours knew anything about it. Apparently it is common practice in USA for psychedelics to be used at vast expense only though…
Hi, Primrose. Psychedelics are still in the research mode in the US. They haven’t been cleared to be a commonly used medication yet. It’s been way overtime for out of the box ideas to treat mental health issues. I’m really hoping that something good comes out of it.
Me too!
You're right, I felt like an awful lot of absolutely horrible psychiatric medications were pushed on me over the past 20 or so years. I have a long list of heavy duty meds. They're allowed to use medications "off label" for conditions other than those the meds were originally created for so I don't understand why they can't offer more "out of the box" drugs or meds. Many psych meds change the brain chemistry & yet that's perfectly acceptable to the medical establishment. It irks me tremendously. I ended up in the mental health unit after developing a bad psychosis following taking gabapentin for chronic pain. Awful hallucinations. I was given tests to rule out a brain tumor & other conditions. It was freaking scary. I can't understand why those types of medications are considered more acceptable than psychedelics. I've never in my life taken an illegal drug, I've never even tried cannabis but I'd be happy to try microdosing with a physician or medical provider. Cannabis is legal in my state (Alaska) but I can't use it per the terms of my "pain contract" with the clinic where I am prescribed a very small amount of pain meds each month. Since cannabis isn't legal in a federal sense yet. My clinic vastly tapered all patients way down on their pain meds because the owner is having to be afraid of getting in trouble with the DEA, (I assume) yet patients aren't allowed to try other substances that might help their pain. I'd never smoke anything but I'd sure try edibles. Of course that stuff is very expensive & I could never afford it.
Psychedelics are out of the box because the way they interact with the brain is different than the commonly prescribed meds for mental health issues. If and when they become government approved then doctors can prescribe them. Until then, doctors hands are tied. The same applies to pain meds. Doctors can prescribe pain meds and it’s at their discretion when they feel it’s necessary within the limits of the laws. Alternative meds are also prescribed at the doctors discretion. Are you being treated for your pain in a pain management clinic?
Yes I am. The meds have been tapered down by a lot over the past few years even though I've been on them for over 20 years. Since the CDC came up with some new "guidelines" in March, 2016, many Dr's took it in ways even the CDC admitted they hadn't intended. The new CDC "guidelines" were intended for use by Primary Care providers & not for Pain specialists but all Dr's kind of came under the gun & some were actually investigated by the DEA so it's understandable that many of them are afraid of losing their practices. Much of the so called "opiate crisis" was manufactured. Since about 2012, prescriptions for medical pain meds have fallen by about 60% yet overdoses have increased by over 200%! Most OD's are due to heroin mixed with illegal fentanyl or poly-substance use. Not by long term chronic pain patients. In fact, many people with chronic pain were pulled off long term pain meds without even a proper taper & some ended up committing suicide due to uncontrolled pain. That's on the CDC & DEA. The DEA finds it easier to go after Pain specialists & grab their property & their medical license than to actually catch drug cartels at the border. As far as "Laws" go regardarding pain meds, there aren't any. There is pressure by the DEA & insurance companies but there are no "laws".
Taking psych meds long term, such as atypical anti-psychotics & anti-seizure meds which are pushed on chronic pain patients routinely, is actually proven to cut years off of people's lives. Living in chronic pain also changes the brain in negative ways. I'm going on about chronic pain here because it's commonly linked with depression & anxiety. Find a person living with chronic pain & you'll most likely find a patient with depression etc.
Sorry to go on like this, I've read a lot of books about this subject. I've even read "Dopesick", the book the Hulu series was based on. It isn't based on facts but was aimed at creating an emotional response by parents of teens & young adults who developed significant addictions to heroin & oxycontin. The vast majority of people who legitimately take pain medications do not become addicted. Dependency is an absolute result of course but that's different from addiction. Everyone who takes nearly type of medication becomes "dependent". I'm dependent on my psych meds for sure. I've stopped taking them a few times over many years, always due to major side effects, & usually ended up in hospital as a result. I think the over-prescribing of psych meds is as much at fault as pain meds for social ills. Take Gabapentin being used as a street drug. It's a horrible med. There are online sites & FB groups for people who have had bad experiences with Gabapentin.
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I’m sorry that you can’t get the help you need. Myself included. Your story brings to light again the problems so many face. You had asked why more out of the box meds can’t be used. Out of the box means to me,referring to new discoveries or ideas that are totally different than accepted present meds or treatment and are still being researched, therefore not available yet for treatment. It’s obvious that what we’ve had to choose from doesn’t help enough people. Meds, and treatments including therapy, from the time I was diagnosed in 1975 to the present have pretty much been the same. Same scenarios, different days. Yes, I know of the immense obstacles to overcome to bring new ideas to fruition. You are not alone in your frustrations. I’ll probably never see those advancements, so all I can do is hope that you and others like you will be able to see it one day. 🥺
I am 78 and I could just imagine my GP thinking What’s this old lady wanting magic mushrooms at her age!! Have never done any type of drugs so would only do the mushrooms if Doctors present but what’s the point if you can’t carry on with them after the trial. X
I agree, I am only(!) 72 and I got such a look from my doctor when I mentioned psilocybin to him, he clearly thought I was a nutter - which I am - but I do think he could have taken me seriously and discussed it with me. I didn’t dare mention magic mushrooms to him after that.!The man in the programme I mentioned couldn't continue with the treatment because there were no more funds available after the trial period and the whole thing just appeared to fizzle out and since treatment not recognised in the NHS the poor man just had to go home and succumb to the devastating depression that had dogged him most of his life….one day I am sure things will be different, well I certainly hope so but I think it will be some time yet before it gets better….
I too avoided all the drugs that were available 50 years ago. But I bet the psychedelics are going to be available after trials because its the only viable hope in psychiatry now for people who have been massively failed by current drug regimes. I’m actually hopeful!
Quality control would be a big issue for me.
I would like to know the purpose of the poll for this community, and I wouldn’t take a mind altering drug that hadn’t become the norm for treatment . As it stands now, psychedelics in general are not the norm yet for the treatment of mental health issues.
Presumably the purpose is to find out if trials of psychedelics would be welcomed by enough potential patients to make it economically viable to run the trials - "big pharma" do nothing out of the goodness of their hearts: they want to be pretty certain there'll be good profits to be made out of their research.
As to not taking a mind altering drug that hadn't become the norm for treatment - that's exactly the point of trials: volunteers who're ill enough to find the risk acceptable if there's even a tiny chance of lessening their illness - and usually the trials are "blind" (ie the patients don't know if they're getting the actual drug or a placebo, which stops the problem of just the suggestion of getting well making them feel well! - have been behind all drugs on the market for many decades now. You never have to put yourself in that position if you find it scary; these people have done that for you.
I know how a drug gets from point A to point B. The poster asked if we would be more comfortable to take the med if a doctor prescribed it. I’m assuming she’s referring to the finished product after it has been deemed safe. Unless the end product was approved to be sold over the counter, who else would we get the med from. The question leaves too much room for speculation as to what answers she’s looking for. I’d really like to hear the poster explain.
I can’t presume the poster is using this survey for big pharma. The poster didn’t state that or much of anything else. I realize the sacrifice of people who join trials and sometimes risk their life for us and I can only be grateful.
Sorry - I gather I must have sounded patronising - I didn't mean to!
I actually wanted to comment about the way the poster presented her survey anyway, so you did me a favor. It’s ok. Words on a screen can sound /look different than they’re meant to be. 🤗
"Unless the end product was approved to be sold over the counter, who else would we get the med from."
What is unique about mushrooms is they grow everywhere. If we understood them like we understand other herbs you would need a doctor. Oaxacans have been using them for generations but they don't treat it like a drug like we do and you don't do it all the time. OTOH pharma makes money if you take it for life. So who do I trust? I don't trust pharma. There are countries where it is legal to administer... If they have good practitioners I think I would go there.
oh, yeah. I could really get into a discussion about big pharma wanting to keep us sick, but that’s something for another day. At this stage of my game, if a new drug was effective for mental health and legal, I’d be the first in line to try it, but the poster asked if we would go to a doctor. Meandering off the posters question…..Physicians Assistants can write scripts too, in the US. So whomever can prescribe, that’s where I’ll be.
could be 2023 
my concern is trying to make it into a “script”. Under supervision you can be safe by ingesting it. No lab needed but I like if the practitioner knows how potent the plant is (etc) and how to be there…not send you home to take it. As soon as they talk about scripts there is probably a pill which is probably more like a micro dose which is looking less effective than taking a weekend with an expert guide. I did read an article about an interesting scientist who is passionately working on this but idk. My take is (so far/tbd) that one to three dose treatment is effective for years if not life. And not addicting. No pharma company is going to manufacture something like that and make affordable
on legalization with links to MH studies …
pewtrusts.org/en/research-a...
There’s much yet to be determined. Big pharma isn’t the only game in town that has the ability to bring a successful drug to market . There are still people that can do so and care about peoples welfare before the huge profit margin. Let’s just hope that happens.
That will only happen via a government that actually represents the people.
I was hoping that a person similar to Mahatma Ghandi would throw his wealthy hat in the ring. 😉
That might be hard. Maybe the now not wealthy Patagonia creator will influence Elon???? 
Ha! I thought of Elon, but the term humanitarian didn’t come up with my thought. He could be a candidate, though. Let’s give him a call and have a heart to heart with him.
That’s so true - and I’m encouraged - the trials I’ve read in the North American journals have been so very positive, I’m almost excited (and that’s saying something for me!).
I have a list of literally 32 different medications I've been put on over the past 20 or so years, the majority of them for psychiatric reasons. (major depression & anxiety) Most of them weren't effective. Some of them were non-pain meds commonly used for people with chronic pain (which do NOT help) But they prescribe "off label" routinely. I feel like the majority of the drugs I've been prescribed have been "mind altering". These drugs can damage the brain when used long term. I don't understand why just because a drug is prescribed by a random physician or other medical provider it's considered superior. I've been prescribed most of the dozens of meds I've been on by medical providers who didn't know me at all. Many of them weren't even physicians, but nurse practice specialists who can prescribe. All psych meds are "mind altering"!
Actually NP/PAs are my go to for general and psych. Reason is nursing school tends to be more human centric. They don't spend 8 years in college. My current prescriber is stellar. It is about data driven evidence and what is right for you. Might not be a med at all. Very hard to find someone like that but you are far less likely to find an MD that will spend a solid hour with you and advise you on much more than what they put one a small piece of paper.
"Off label" It is infuriating you have to do so much research on your own to figure that out too. we aren't research rats.
35 is mind blowing. That must be frustrating.
I don't think I'd take psychedelics ever, never mind if they were administered by my doc. I've heard that some folks have made progress regarding psychs but as for me, it wouldn't suit my anxiety!
If I was having no success with other treatments, then sure, why not? Full disclosure: I am a daily pot smoker, so I am a little biased. I don't push my beliefs on others, I feel its a personal decision.
If it will help people why not
A Dr administering them would not make a difference. Honestly, i would prefer to be given instruction on administering myself. If a Dr did it, would likely have to be in a facility so they can monitor me. I obviously cannot drive home after taking them. I do not like psych facilities.
I tried to get on a trial but was rejected due to hypertension. After 30 years of crippling Anxiety and depression i would try anything.
Would probably set off a epileptic seizure or panic attack both of which I am prone too!
Would need lots of talks with my doctor & research on my part. I would also want to be closely watched... I've never done psychedelics.
😋
I may feel better in a controlled environment with my doctor but knowing they are psychedelics I would still be hesitant to try them.
Depends on the kind of doctor. I would trust someone who was trained specifically about using and administering them and preferably had actually used them themselves over a regular medical doctor.
it would best if doctors could get it to use AND if insurance covered. One private practice was charging $800 for initial appointment and $600 for each follow up (6-8 “based on need”). How are people suppose to get help if it’s not even affordable! He even tried to convince me to set up first appointment and take initial payment over the phone, right then and there. I just hung up.
If they had gone through clinical trials, and dosages figured out I would feel comfortable trying them on my own
very interesting thread thank you. Where can I find out about enlarged ventricles as I have them and consequently had a shunt fitted at Addenbrookes. I have bipolar by the way and am I right to think this is a side effect of being bipolar, the enlarged ventricles I mean?
I would love to be on psychedelics. I know from experience that it would be so much better for me than a pill.
Sorry, I had my mind f*cked up by alcohol long enough; I don't need it f*cked up by psychedelic drugs.
Ecstacy and Ketamine micro dosing under Dr supervision is showing a lot of promise in the States.
I would try anything at this point. But I would only try it if monitored by a doctor.
I think it's an absolutely great idea for many people, but for myself I'd be too afraid to, as I had a truly horrendous experience of full blown paranoia when I was in my 20's (having smoked dope for years with no more affect than lots of giggling and getting "the munchies") after smoking some dope that had opium in it. I never, ever want to revisit that experience - it lasted hours and I couldn't ever find words to explain how painful and damaging and traumatic it was.
Having a doctor there to monitor me wouldn't help if that happened to me again - it'd make it worse as I'd see him as part of the world wide conspiracy against me.
(goes to show how conceited I was/am that I truly thought the entire world gave 2 hoots about me!)
I used to think when I entered a space that people were staring at me. Then a friend told me, “Don’t flatter yourself”. Lol That grounded me more than any words from a therapist did. You weren’t conceited….
I used to smoke pot - swore by it being the best thing for me, but after 7 years, I had terrible panic attacks and numerous stays at mental hospitals. I stayed away from it for about 20 years. Recently tried it again for PTSD - it worked at first, but then I began to feel like it was leading me in a really bad direction so I stopped again. Glad I was not hospitalized again. Not saying it affects others this way, only me. It might be my schizophrenia that is the real culprit. I have heard the recent talk about psychedelics, I am quite skeptical but, if my doctor thought I should try it, I would say what the heck, and I would try it.
Yes with caution. Pharma makes money when you take a pill a long time. Just fact. Most people who get into shrooms seriously take it once. So now they are trying to bottle it. I don't trust the direction this could go. So I would evaluate this completely differently from other medicine. I am lucky to have a prescriber that would help me with this.
I have tried several psychedelics, and I can say that the effects changes from one time to an other.
I am pretty sure medical care and prescrit would be impossible.
Gosh…that’s a good one. 👍🏼 I’m thinking….
Is Ketamine considered a psychedelic??? I was considering taking Ketamine, but now I’m not so sure I want to. I’m doing pretty well on the psychiatric medications I take.
I’ve done lots of ketamine infusion treatments they did help me but only at high doses. The lower does were basically a waste of money for me but dr said you have to start at the bottom. Im not sure exactly what they consider ketamine as. obviously it’s been used for anesthesia for years I think everybody knows that. I am desperate for pain relief. Ketamine infusions are not per se for pain relief but I have anxiety that gives me chronic stomach aches for 30 years. Many times I can’t eat I can’t sleep because pain is so severe. and then it goes away like I never had a pain in my life but for the most part I live with pain every day.
The use of psychedelics would be of great help but not with the help of medical practitioners who have minimal understanding of valid research. The catch-22 of psychedelic clinics is that they don't want those on medications. The natural progression would be to ween us off the meds and onto mushrooms, etc.
not sure that that is. I just wish there was something out there that could give you something to numb you on how you feel and how you react to things
I have been getting IV Ketamine treatments for a year. The Doctor sits in the room with me. I find it comforting. We have interesting conversations after the trip.
I have heard of Ketamine usage as well as LSD usage for treatments of severe depression. I think it would work as sort of exposure therapy inside your brain with therapeutic guidance. I could definitely see the scientific benefits of allowing people to explore their inner thoughts without blockages to seek through the pain and trauma and allow people to see their mind in a different light.
Likely but it all depends on the doctor. Set and setting are exceptionally important for psychedelics. I've long wanted to use Psilocybin in a good setting but I'm just not sure I wouldn't freak out. Maybe one day.
I'm very excited for the results of (FINALLY) newer research.
I tried Ketamine and that was prescribed by my doctor, but I still didn’t like the way it made me feel. I am not trying psychedelic treatments anytime soon, they aren’t right for everyone.
I have that book! Just started it. I´m also reading a book called ¨Dreamland¨. I try to read stuff on each side of these issues.
I had a bad experience with LSD, and marijuana gives me major anxiety. If I were under a doctor’s care, I’d consider trying microdosing if it didn’t get me high. Lord knows, medications haven’t really helped me much in 30+ years, and I’ve tried everything! I’ve heard people say good things about microdosing, so it would be worth a try.
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