I have a 30-second ECG from my Kardia 6L. It is a "two-finger type."
The Kardia tells me that this is Normal Sinus Rhythm.
To me, this tracing is extremely chaotic, not at all like the other alleged NSRs.
Can someone provide some insight as to why this tracing is deemed an NSR?
I’m not medically trained, but have done plenty of Kardia readings. The squiggles and chaos you see looks like interference to me, or you may have moved a lot towards the end of the reading?
As I say, I, not medically trained, but I have had some wobbling on mine, usually at the beginning. Did you try redoing the reading? Have you made sure there are no mobile phones or anything next to the device when you take the reading?
Yes, I did two more readings. And I have seen this chaos many times, and also very smooth baselines. I always have my smartphone, which has the Kardia app, next to the monitor. How could I not have the monitor nearby. I'm pretty sure that I do not move.
Sometimes I take readings near a digital clock and an electric lamp with an LED bulb.
Are you saying that *no* irregular heart beat would create this tracing?
Thank you for your reply!
Ideally you shouldn’t have your mobile right next to the Kardia, it should be a couple of feet away really or more? If I am using it for example on the sofa, I place it on the edge of the seat rest. I always get interference if too close. They may be something else affecting it nearby? Or your WiFi connection fades or something? The squiggles realily do look like atmospheric interference. It could be from your lamp too or clock, that could definitely affect it.
I would 98% say that no irregularity would do that, but I’m not a cardiologist, so can’t say 100%. You would certainly feel something like that though and I doubt it would be pleasant if you did. You also had beautiful nsr before it.
An aweful lot of interference. Moisten your fingers before use to ensure a good contact and stay away from other electronic equipment.
I have seen this chaos many times, and also very smooth baselines. I always have my smartphone, which has the Kardia app, next to the monitor. How could I not have the monitor nearby?
Sometimes I take readings near a digital clock and an electric lamp with an LED bulb. But the baselines are usually smooth.
Are you saying that *no* irregular heart beat would create this tracing?
I have never moistened my fingers, but will do so from now on.
Thank you for your reply!
Definitely something interfering. The easiest way to pick interference is to look for the base line. If your reading has a baseline that goes up and down, then it’s interference through movement, poor connection, muscle noise or something digital.
You can see clearly in the last line your baseline is all over the place. Look for the QRS start and finish as an example - it high and then low and then goes up even higher! It’s not always easy to pick the baseline sometimes and it’s why home ecg devices in the wrong hands are not good - it just increases anxiety.
Thank you for your reply.
I don't think that I'm particularly anxious about this, but I am curious about the judgment of NSR, in light of the fact that many, many times the Kardia will refuse to continue on account of perceived interference. Because of how frequently the Kardia *does* find interference, I concluded that interference was *not* the cause of these tracings.
Are you saying that *no* irregular heart beat would create this type of tracing?
Yes, I’m saying that no irregular heartbeat would create that trace, particularly the last line we see. It is interference.
It’s clearly a wandering baseline. There is no irregular heartbeat that has a wandering baseline. The baseline is important in an ecc as it used to asses things like a PR segment elevation and or depression which can indicate more serious issues. Every part of that PQRST is used in some way and it never wanders.
I have many different conduction abnormalities as I have a conduction disorder. AF is rarity for me at the moment. Most of my conduction issues are ventricular based and include NSVT, PVCs and a left bundle branch block, but I also still have the atrial ones including PACs, sinus arrhythmia, supraventricular tachycardia and AF. I’ve learned to recognise a lot of them and I’ve learned how to discount interference. I can show you hundreds of ecgs I have taken, both single lead and 6 lead. I have a lot of erratic ones which are interference. Even my cat sitting on my lap while I do an ecg can create issues in the trace.
I am humbled by your knowledge!
And inspired, too, to learn more.
Are you familiar with the Wellue heart monitor?
If so, have you used it? How accurate to you find its Artificial Intelligence reports?
Sort of an existential question, I suppose: Is there a peril in knowing the exquisite truth about one's situation? As it is, I get reports that maybe should scare me, but I shrug them off.
If I become a better judge of matters than my cardiologist (a wild hypothetical), and desire treatments that the cardiologist disputes, might I be worse off from disgust and frustration? (I live in the U.S. and perhaps have more options than people in the U.K.)
Just jumping in to say I have the wellue 24 hour monitor and it is worth buying you get heaps of information you'd be surprised. My cardiologist fully approves of it
I do have a Wellue, and I agree that it is worth buying. I've had maybe 200 sessions with it. Its reports come in much faster than the 30 minutes it says they will take, and they do not cost extra beyond the original price. It's quite amazing.
Absolutely it's very thorough breaking down the different types of rhythm I'm in.I actually upload my results to chat GPT it's helpful to get it analysised by them
Can I ask how you upload PDFs to ChatGPT? Are you using the free ChatGPT version, or a subscription version. Thanks. PM if you prefer.
Hi
Yes i dont use pdfs what I do is screenshot each page of data just the three main ones not all the ecgs there's too many of them.
I use the free version of Chat GPT at the bottom left click on the + and add photo from the 3 you've chosen maybe start with 2 and add analyse it will then tell you what it's found and you can have a conversation and be given advice it's very interesting.
I do this if I have an echocardiogram or blood tests it's so useful.let me know how you get on
Thanks. Makes me think I need to buy a copy of the book "ChatGPT for Dummies".🤔
I am so stuck in the "asking the occasional question" mode that I didn't even notice those symbols on the left. And previous answers from ChatGPT have confirmed that the free version doesn't supply images in their answers, so I gave up on the use of images completely. But your method has awakened me to the possibility that submitting images might be acceptable. Although, rereading your reply again, you are not submitting an image for analysis, rather you are submitting the 3 pages of Wellue data which ChatGPT extracts from your screenshots. I only have Kardia ECG images, not 3 pages of Wellue data. So I'm now "pessimistic" again as to whether I will find anything helpful, but I'll try.
I'm busy with other things at the moment, but will get back to you eventually with the results of my "experiments" with the symbols you indicated.
How’s this for interference! The first part is ventricular in origin but as I’m not an expert, I can only guess and I think it is several PVCs. The right hand side is sudden severe interference. I have no idea what. It did it twice in this trace. Most of the trace was normal NSR and some PVCs.
Im far from an expert on these things but I have learnt a lot. And I’ve learned cardiology is far too complex for the average person like me to fully grasp. I’m about to order a Wellue. I’m in Australia and have a fantastic cardiologist. I have total faith in him. He’s also a gadget lover as it gives him insights into my heart’s behaviour he wouldn’t otherwise get.
You’ve got lovely P waves and the R waves are perfectly spaced, wish my tracing looked like that! But there is very bad interference, I suspect from how you are touching the pads.
Thank you for your reply. Your opinion is shared by several others, that interference is the only explanation for the patterns. I'm impressed that the Kardia seems willing to tolerate interference during some sessions, yet refuses to continue at other times on account of interference.
Were you still when you performed it? Mine sometimes looks a little wacky if I don't remain still.
Thank you for your reply.
I believe that I was still. Hundreds of times I have had smooth baselines between spikes. Only occasionally have I seen the bumpiness that is present in this ECG, with this rather low pulse rate.
The interference could be caused by wifi if you have that, most equipment (TVs, washing machines, etc) transmit electromagnetic radiation nowadays. I end up in the garden sometimes!
It's the inconsistent perception of interference that mystifies me. I can be in exactly the same place, doing (I think) the same thing, and get the messy baseline sometimes and interference at others. I suppose there's a threshold amount that becomes too much for it to handle.
I find it's crucial to relax my arms and hands and sit perfectly still whilst just resting my moistened fingers on the contacts during recording, or my baseline wanders around. There are also two filtering settings (tap the cog wheel in Kardia the app). Mine's set to Mains filter - Automatic and Filter Type - Advanced
Thank you. I will poke at that.
Do you know the difference between Filter Type Enhanced and Filter Type Original? I have looked on the Karida website without success. I have Enhanced chosen right now.
I don't have one of these but I expect it's programmed to look for a P wave (it's size, timing) before the QRS, then T wave, it then waits until next beat comes in. AF has irregular timings, base line has "Fib waves" which doesn't fit into normal sizes.
Even if you have a dodgy base line it hopefully will report it as SR.
Hi I may be incorrect but does Kardia not analyse trace number one only ie top trace which looks SR . I have no idea what the bottom trace is. Regards Roger
check the battery inside. I started getting the same readings soon as I replaced the battery everything was sorted.
Mine always look like that! But yours shows the P wave so no AF on that I don't think.
I've shown ECG's from my watch to my cardiologist. Normal sinus rhythm but a very messy reading.
He says they are artifacts probably causes by anything from minute muscular tremors in wrist ( especially after excericsing) to poor electrode contact.
he told me to chill out and relax and only use ecg function if I physically feel something is off.
interference. There is a clear P wave ergo not AF.
I got very chaotic looking readings from my Kardia until I changed the battery - then it worked fine again!
The squiggles are electrical "noise" created by the use of fingers rather than gel pads that a professional ECG would use. The electrodes pick up a lot of electrical signal from muscles, for example, and the software does its best to smooth this out, but, when there is a lot, it fails.
This is NSR - a regular ventricular beat (large peak) following a regular atrial beat (tiny blip).
There is a home ECG made by a company called Wellue that allows the use of gel type electrode pads. These remove all such "noise".
Steve
Thank you for your reply.
I do have a Wellue and like it a lot.
Wasn't it you that I had exchanges with regarding Wellue software problems?
Are you familiar with the Zio heart monitor?
Hi - I was prescribed a 14-day Zio monitor patch in, I think, 2020. That was, unfortunately, a quiet fortnight, arrhythmia-wise so it revealed very little except ectopic beats and bradycardia. I think the cost is now around £300 including the AI analysis. If I used one at present it would reveal very much more. They seem available on the NHS in the uk, these days, too.
It might have been me regarding exchanges on Wellue software. It's an AI software but my experience of it is generally sound and useful (several here post about it favourably). For anyone like me with a left branch bundle block (LBBB, typically showing on an ECG strip as a wide QRS), then all AI software, from Wellue or wherever, will fail to analyse the arrhythmias at times. In the case of Wellue, it can report "VT", which is the AI getting it very wrong. These days, I rely on my Apple Watch and device by Contec / May (the PM20 / 6L) which works very well indeed, with no monthly fee or wifi connection needed, and despite my LBBB.
Steve
Looks like interference to me. You could be near a fridge, router, wifi, TV, anything electrical.
I just received a reply from you, but it seems to have been deleted before I could complete my reply to you.
Anyway, here's what I wrote ...
Not sure I understand what your FTP site is, but your ecg pdf downloaded as soon as I selected the link you posted. So it worked OK. I have never seen an ecg displayed as you did on the Forum. Previously it's always been members posting screenshots or photos of their ecgs.
Could you please explain more about your FTP site?
As for ChatGPT, as I discussed above with fairgo45 , my free version does not generate or analyse images, so it would be pointless uploading an image of an ecg, but it does seem to be able to extract information and data from Wellue reports and echocardiogram results when input as a screenshot or photo, as described by fairgo45 . But I haven't tried any of this yet, so I may be wrong.
Does that answer your query? I'm still a bit unsure.🤔
And I was also wondering why you are only recording 1 lead ecgs, when your Kardia 6L has 6 leads available? Is that just because it's physically easier for you?
Kardia will still only analyse lead 1 even though it shows 6 leads.
You’ve raised na interesting point with Chat GPT. I have never asked it to analyse a trace before. As you’ve discovered, and I just did too, it can’t. It can only review the text which is an AI review anyway.
I did the next best thing and asked it for recommendations of AI platforms which analysed traces and it didn’t think there were many which were analyses only - most record and analyse such as Kardia etc. The others were professional platforms for medicos.
Well fairgo45 got some helpful info from her ecg data set, as well as echo results and blood tests, all submitted to ChatGPT as photos or screenshots.
I am aware of the 30 seconds Lead I interpretation by Kardia, but I mentioned the 6 leads to suggest that more leads may be helpful if we ever do find a way to get free ecg analysis by ChatGPT or other AI bot. But DeepSeek looks a bit too risky for me, so I won't be going there. And Facebook is a no-no for me as well ... it seems I'm allergic to the Zucksterman! Go figure! Allergic to Musk and Trump as well! 🤔
I suffer those same allergies!
Perhaps fairgo has a paid version. My free version won’t. This is its response:
Thanks for uploading the trace. Unfortunately, I can’t directly view images, but if you describe any features you notice—such as irregular beats, pauses, or unusual waveforms—I can help interpret their significance. Alternatively, you could check if anything looks different compared to your previous ECGs.
Would you like guidance on what to look for?
I think you need to read fairgo45 's reply to me above again.
She specifically explains she has the free version, and then goes on to explain how she uploads the data in her Wellue Reports, her Echocardiogram Reports, as well as her blood tests (not all at the same time), and which allows ChatGPT to then comment on her data.
I will try it myself when I get a chance.
I quickly deleted my reply to you, because I realized that you were talking to someone else. Sorry for the confusion.
As for your question, I don't know what more I can say about my FTP site other than that I have an FTP site -- a place where I can upload files for other people to read.
I buy the FTP space from the same Internet Service Provider that I use to host my website, verycrasswords.com. I use software from Filezilla to upload files such as the one we're talking about.
The file itself is a PDF created by the Karida 6L. The file was sent by the Kardia software on my smartphone to my email address. From there I downloaded it to my computer, and from there I uploaded it to the FTP site. At that point, the file had a URL, which I copied and pasted into my post.
As far as I know, the software in this group allows only the uploading of images, but not files. Thus, I type in the link to my file. And because it's a PDF, most people can see it readily. It's quite nifty.
As for ChatGPT, I have never used it. I guess I should poke at it. It seems odd that the free version is not willing to analyze images, but is willing to extract data from a screenshot.
I wonder if it makes things up, like that AI program that completely fabricated legal precedents for a court filing. The AI program may learn that most humans like to hear good news, and may therefore starting lying to us. And it may learn that certain humans enjoy suffering, and may therefore exaggerate bad news.
Thanks for taking time to reply again. It seems I am unfamiliar with the systems you use because (i) I don't have an internet provider nor any space to upload files, and (ii) I don't have my own website. Anyway, it has worked well for you. Thanks again.
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