AF general question

[TillyBoss]

The old adage is af begets af... but is the opposite true?

[Cavalierrubie]

TillyBoss have you been finishing the sherry off ? LOL 😂😂😂 I would think the answer is NO if there is no cure. There are people who have had just one episode of AF and never had it again, but I think this is rare. I wish it would beget off don't you?............ Happy New Year xxx

[southkorea in reply to Cavalierrubie]

And me!!!!! Xcx

[Paulbounce]

Hi Tilly.

I'm going to take a positive view of this one. After a successful CV and two years of sinus, the heart does start to heal slightly. Normally after 6 months afib free, there are signs of improvement. I think to maximise these changes it's very important to eat healthy food and exercise (in moderation).

Paul

PS. Cavalierruble - I haven't been on the sherry. Honest😈

Edit - copy and paste:

Research continues to study whether successful AFib treatment will decrease the likelihood of future episodes. Some research indicates that intervention and appropriate treatment can save AFib from becoming a chronic illness. Nonetheless, more research is needed to establish how treatment affects AFib recurrence over time.

[Cavalierrubie in reply to Paulbounce]

Bless you Paul. It’s good to be positive and encouraging. We all need that. I really hope we can one day say to you Tillyboss that the opposite is true.

Wishing you health and happiness in 2025.

[Paulbounce in reply to Cavalierrubie]

Same back Cavalierrubie. Have an awesome 2025 and Happy New Year.

Paul

[TillyBoss in reply to Paulbounce]

It's better to be hopeful I reckon.... and curious. Cardiologist in Australia put his a fib patients on diets and the 50 per cent who dropped 10 per cent body weight had a huge reduction in a fib load and some were even taken off meds. I had persistent a fib from Sept 23 to July 24 but now it only occurs 9 days a month and in December only 5 days so it seems to be going in right direction. Only prob is I don't know why it’s happening as I threw everything at it. Magnesium. I cut down on alcohol so my weight went down over that period. Also taking taurine and l-arginine. I had been taking nexium for years which is a no no as I found out that it can hinder the absorption of magnesium so it might be that. I'm on apixaban and bisop so keeping them up. Hopefully the doctor can trace what I'm doing right as this condition is a quagmire. It seems to span terrible effects for some people to someone like who is asymptomatic.

[Paulbounce in reply to TillyBoss]

Hi Tilly.

It seems to span terrible effects for some people to someone like who is asymptomatic

Very true. Afib hits some more than others. This can certainly be the case with PAF - the body often adjusts if it becomes permanent and the effects may not be noticed so much. For me, rate control is more important than rhythm control although many would disagree with me and say rhythm control is the one to go for. It's a moot point.

I think weight loss can have a massive effect. I lost weight and returned to sinus without the need for a CV. It's the first time I have returned to sinus without medical intervention.

Paul

[secondtry]

Thank you for the post. Staying positive, I think this Forum - free of vested interests, more time & experience available and the most important persons involved - has the best chance of coming up with answers.....one day 🤞🙏.

[OzRob in reply to secondtry]

This forum has so much information from people with AF. It is a pity the data is only in the forum in the current format, hopefully one day with the help of AI that data may get extracted and used to help give some answers. I know from reading about some aspects of AF here on the forum along with my own experiences that the information is very helpful.

[Singwell in reply to OzRob]

Yes, wouldn't that be great if perhaps the Arrythmia Alliance Association were able to customise an AI algorithm to do this. Maybe Paulbounce could advise them 😉

[Paulbounce in reply to Singwell]

Hi Sing.

TBH I could probably whip one up myself that only deals with afib. It would need to be Artificial Narrow Intelligence (ANI) or a talking Bot - you ask the Bot a question and interact with it. The Bot follows a process where it will ask you questions and learn more about your afib ie what meds are you taking etc.

It's not hard to do. The only problem I have at the moment is time as Jan 2nd I need to start work on my projects again. I'll run it past Admin in the new year as it will be a useful tool to have. I would make it very clear it is for information purposes only and not a replacement for your doctor.

Leave it with me 😉

Paul

[Singwell in reply to Paulbounce]

Happy New Year to you Paul. May all go smoothly with new projects and wellness

[Paulbounce in reply to Singwell]

Happy New Year Sing.

All best Paul

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

I have to say that the correct path of meds (when other procedures can't be used) is paramount.

Who would leave a 70s gal on a Beta Blocker she did not want in the first discussion.Metoprolol.

Following up later on research a trial of a beta-blocker and then calcium channel blocker is a must.

It would have saved me from Day H/R of 186! Breathlessness and pauses at night over 1 year 5 months. And damage of severe left atrium enlargement. No follow up appmt for Stroke, with rapid and persistent AF.

Another BB improved a little @ Day 156 H/R.

Still the Hospital Cardiologist didn't investigate. Left me there.

Changed to a private Cardiologist who introduced CCB Calcium Channel Blocker Ditiazem.

On 1/2 dose Diltiazem 180mg still with 5mg Bisoprolol H/R decreased from 156 to 51bpm in 2 hours! Settled on AM 120mg CD Diltiazem and PM 2.5mg Bisoprolol.

3 years later dropped Bisoprolol.Both decrease BP. But lately drops too low.

Meds need revising. Women's intuition!

No symptoms except some fatigue walking. Sleep well, Eat healthy, No alcohol, Exercise as I feel inclined!

Shouldn't you use the word 'begets'. Enjoy life. I'm off to see the lovable and laughable Paddington Bear goes to Peru on New Year's Day!

cheri JOY. now 75 (NZ)

[beach_bum in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

The ER doc also but me on beta blockers after my first episode. Felt horrid…waited for 3 days as directed by the ER doc, then called my GP. He immediately switched me to calcium channel blockers, and the improvement was instant. I’ve felt great ever since (4 years) and I work out 3 times a week and cycle over 100k a week. I’ve had 4 episodes in 4 years, and only 1 requiring cardioversion.

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to beach_bum]

Hi

That is great beach_bum.

Live here where I am - see Doubtless Bay from Hi hi to Karikari peninsular. I had Christmas down the beach. There is shelter from the out in red flower our Pohutakawa ? trees.

With my right shoulder done I feel right to swim again.

Never had sharks in our little bay.

This morning we have had sun, wind and a bit of rain.

I have to keep the hedge down. Its 'abilia' hedge out in flower on Christmas Day.

I am higher up - next street higher than road and have the Christian Camp in front.

I've been here 34 years! Bought home went to UK 6 years but back and forth to see my parents. 3 times.

I was introduced to Diltiazem December 2021 and have never looked back. I'm not an anxious person. I can have this CCB because I have no problems in my ventricles or valves. Trouble., damage in my left atrium.

So glad you are good. I am persistent from start of diagnosis.

HAPPY NEW YEAR.

cheri JOY.

What's your new resolution. Mine is decluttering. Today found my B12 pills shipped from Switzerland, daughter's 50th year present. She is now 51. Great.

[ozziebob]

I'm hoping a better understanding of and "communication" with our vagus nerve will eventually lead to less or zero AF. All without drugs or surgical procedures!🤔

[Abbyroza in reply to ozziebob]

Exactly. Promising direction!

[Cliff_G]

Well, AF begets AF is medically termed "remodelling", a change in the heart tissues tending towards heterogeneity and thus more fib. But once treatment (such as ablation) has been successful, there is evidence of "reverse remodelling", where the tissues can grow back to something more normal.

[Singwell in reply to Cliff_G]

This is what we all hope for but one issue I've had to face is that - as we get older - the scar tissue from the ablation itself becomes stiffer (I've forgotten the correct term) and therefore AF is more likely to start up again as the barrier is less effective. This has happened to me, possibly because I had over 100 burn sites from my 1st ablation because I was sedated only and apparently moved around a lot. Despite this, my AF burden is reduced and I'm no longer on heart medication but use PiP when needed. I've done everything else I could've done in lifestyle changes which my EP acknowledged. Just the luck of the draw.

[Jetcat in reply to Singwell]

Iv had 3 ablations and seemed to be doing ok for a couple of years but as time has gone on im starting to get bouts of afib again unfortunately.! Im sure id be in a worse predicament without the ablations though. So it’s time for an appointment with cardiologist early next year and see what can be offered.? I’m only taking bisoprolol so they will hopefully try me something else as well.?👍

It certainly keeps us on our toes does this afib.🫤

[Pommerania78 in reply to Singwell]

What were your lifestyle changes? Thanks.

[Singwell in reply to Pommerania78]

Addressed long term subclinical hypothyroidism (medical change), gave up alcohol, regular walking, resting each afternoon for 40 minutes, changed my diet to include diverse plant foods as well as meat fish and eggs, introduced probiotics. Strict about sleep patterns. There's one thing more I could do - work less. But that's my challenge , husband and I run our own small business and the last 2 years have been awful financially. I've had to work many more hours than I'd like and the worry of being able to make ends meet at this point in my life has not been good for me. Or my husband, who also recently developed AF.

[Pommerania78 in reply to Singwell]

You should study the teachings of Joel Wallach. His old radio program broadcasts are on YouTube and he discusses how to cure Afib. Also you should study the teachings of Doug Kaufmann. Thanks.

[Singwell in reply to Pommerania78]

That's very nice of you but I strongly suspect with having had a vagotomy aged 19 due to abdominal surgery that my systems will not be able to get into optimal balance. I do my best. However, if those writers can tell me how to improve my financial situation then I'll take a look.

[Pommerania78 in reply to Singwell]

They probably can.

[Pommerania78 in reply to Cliff_G]

We also know that one's internal organs, including the heart, actually shrink (is that not remodeling?) with significant weight loss.

[Singwell in reply to Pommerania78]

Losing weight not something I need fortunately. At my age and height going below 53 kilos would be a bad plan.