AF Question

[heartmatters1]

Been in AF since 4 am. Think PIP is taking effect 🙏

Question: does anyone experience upset stomach when AF, i.e. needing to rush to loo. Is it the AF causing that or the other way round?

Ally

[Jong1945]

Hi Ally, hope you're back in NSR soon !

Yes, gastric symptoms are common in conjunction with AF. Dr Sanjay Gupta's videos on Youtube are worth searching and watching. But your situation sounds as if your vagus nerve is very active - it is the nerve that slows the heart down and also the same one that stimulates digestion. Paradoxically, in some people having the vagus active and slowing the heart down will often precipitate a bout of AF, contrary to the old model that it's always a fast heart rate that triggers AF - that yours started early a.m. is another indicator of "vagally-mediated AF".

Whether the gut causes the AF or the other way round is a difficult one. The simple explanation is that the gastric problems trigger the AF but I (and I think some cardiologists who research this area) are not entirely sure which way round it is, or that it is necessarily one way - I personally think (from my research and observing my own AF) it's possiby mostly gut>>heart but maybe a bit of heart>>gut.

The entire Autonomic Nervous System interaction with the heart and with AF in particular is not fully understood, and is (thankfully, at last!) now the subject of some research. There are many many ANS and vagus connections to and from the heart and also some of the other organs round about (e.g. the gut itself), and several what are known as ganglionic plexi (nerve complexes) too.

You might find that a little gentle exercise helps to get you back to NSR (too much exercise can be counter-productive - you need "just enough"). I used to find a short run up a flight or two of stairs, or repeated stair-stepping, worked.

[heartmatters1 in reply to Jong1945]

Thanks for your response John - makes sense.

Feeling a lot calmer this afternoon. Heart rate is still a little erratic.

Interesting point you made regarding gentle exercise, I might try it. I always avoid it when in AF, as I am worried that I might exacerbate it, or it could be dangerous - I gave my gym session a miss today and have been lounging on the sofa!

Best wishes

Ally

[souljacs4 in reply to Jong1945]

Can I ask what research is on going for vagal AF I would love to know as I am sure mine is vagal

[Jong1945 in reply to souljacs4]

If you search on PubMed ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed you'll find current and past research; a marvellous resource; many papers are now free to get the full text versions. I am not sure there's much really very new being done on Vagal AF per se, though there's a bit more recognition of it than there used to be, and there's also a lot being done on the heart-gut connection in the past 5+ years. Dr Sanjay Gupta's videos on Youtube are very informative.

[souljacs4 in reply to Jong1945]

Thanks John will take a look at that.

[Hidden]

For me,it was a case of calm the digestive system (through diet), calm the vagal nerve, then the heart seems to calm itself.

[heartmatters1 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for your response. I think I am going to have to be more careful what I eat, especially in the evening.

Best wishes for a healthy & happy Christmas

[Buffafly]

I think it works both ways, I have had AF after a bad digestive upset, but I have also had diarrhoea after AF, suggesting my system couldn't cope with the wonky heart! Can't win.....

[heartmatters1 in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks for your response Buttafly. AF is such s weird condition!

Best wishes for a happy healthy Christmas x

[Finvola]

That all sounds so familiar to me too - gurgling, wind, burping, diarrhea and gallons of pee. How graphic!

Although my AF is suppressed by Flecainide at the moment, I still get gut/heart/gut interactions where I suspect my vagus nerve is irritated, causing ectopics and tachycardia which in turn upset my gut.

There are some superb posts on a thread of mine from a couple of days ago which may be of interest and help to you.

[heartmatters1 in reply to Finvola]

Thanks for your response Finvola - what complex creatures we are. It's such a scary complaint!

Best wishes for a happy healthy Christmas

[Finvola in reply to heartmatters1]

Thank you and have a lovely, NSR Christmas too.

[Hidden in reply to heartmatters1]

Hi heartmatters,

If you click on my username, carneuny,you should find your way to my past posts on AF, digestive system and vagal nerve.

Best wishes and a healthy Christmas to you too 😀.

[chris45558]

Everytime I've had a episode its aways after a meal and end up with stomach pain

[Melleray]

Hi - I always have to rush to the loo when AF starts and have 'loose loos', I usually feel sick too, but I have always put to this down to the stress of the AF starting.

[Redders in reply to Melleray]

Exactly what happens to me and I’ve always put it down to panic when the af starts.

[Janith]

I have only been in afib twice ... both times l had constant urges to urinate ... constant ... the afib causes this so l read ...

[mincde in reply to Janith]

Same here. That's from the atrial natriuretic peptide released during A-fib. It's amazing that I have any liquid left in me afterwards.

[a1anx]

I've only recently been really troubled by AF. Got cardioverted in August and 4 trips to the ER since with 160+ bpm. The staff at the ER became increasingly less pleased to see me so I won't go again Last time a staff nurse was pretty rude to me because she said that my heart rate at triage was only 74 bpm although quite erratic. Well it wasn't 74 during the time I had to wait to be seen. GPs locally are a variable feast two of them being very good and two others worse than useless.

Afib for me is always associated with flatulence and or an upset stomach, usually triggered by food (bread cheese and any processed food are definitely off the menu although baked beans and corned beef seem ok).

Anyway I eat sparingly, try to sleep well and stay calm. Also having read 'The Sinatra Solution: Metabolic Cardiology'...or as much of it as I can understand take the following supplements daily.

Am pretty sure that my afib is vagally related.

2 gms Fish Oil

200 mg Coenzyme Q10

15 gms D Ribose

500 mg *Magnesium

* Check out this site for the type of magnesium that you want the stuff sold in high stree chemists may not be ideal.

naturalnews.com/046401_magn...

[heartmatters1 in reply to a1anx]

Thanks for your reply & link. Last time I went to out our emergency dept by the time I got to be seen I had gone into NSR. So I rode my last episode a few days ago at home after taking my PIP, which took a little longer to kick in this time. I think the thoughts are unless you have any chest pain, giddiness/blacking out or do not revert after a few hours, then do not go.

I am definitely changing my diet and will not be having heavy meals especially late evening.

Best wishes for a happy healthy Christmas & New Year

[EngMac]

I have noticed a misbehaving heart causes stomach reflux when I wake in the middle of the night. Initially no issue, then the heart misbehaves and I get it. I can make my heart misbehave by my manipulating my back; and also make it behave by doing this, at which time the reflux also stops. My heart does not like the reflux. Too bad the heart and stomach would not cooperate more to fix this. Need a new brain maybe.

Also, since the chiropractor has been adjusting my back, I can have an urge to urinate and this can also happen when I don't have AF. The nerve that impacts the kidneys is at the same T5 vertebrae where a nerve impacts the heart. Maybe this is the connection yet to be found.

No scientific evidence of course, just something I have noticed a few times.

[heartmatters1 in reply to EngMac]

Definitely a connection. I am being more careful with my diet, size of portions & not eating late at night.

Best wishes

[a1anx in reply to heartmatters1]

Very definitely small portions. I've lost 3 stone since September when I adopted my new 'diet'. Don't bother counting calories which is just as well because I eat lots of nuts (idiot GP told me not to on account of they have lots of calories ..... recommended muesli FFS !

[Redders]

Hi heartmatters1. Yes that happens to me, always need to rush to the loo as soon as af starts.