Watches

[Corazon17]

I recently bought a Fitbit Charge 6 watch.

For many reasons, I would not recommend it.

I have seen posts and comments about Apple watches, and I have a question about them.

Are they able to *continuously* monitor for afib?

I have seen people write that Apple watches can do this, but I wonder if those people are using the word "continuously" in the way that I would use it.

To me, "continuously" means that I don't have to do a damned thing to be informed that I am having afib, other than looking at the watch when it vibrates or makes a sound.

With my Fitbit (if I'm using it correctly), I have to navigate to a menu (not always easy), and then I have to stop everything while I grasp the sides of the watch for 30 seconds, and then I have to wait 15 seconds or so, and then I get a written message about the watch's judgment of my condition.

Sure, it's pretty cool, and I should be thankful and all that. But does the Apple watch actually perform its checks at all times, without being asked, and without the need for the human to stop everything and grab the sides?

And if so, how trustworthy is it, without two somewhat separated contact points with the body?

[Buzby62]

Short answer - No

It’s the same technology really. Apple watch can indicate possible AF or irregular heart beat but you have to do the ECG for 30 secs to confirm it. It won’t alert you to all AF and can miss episodes.

I would not have known about my PAF without my Apple Watch but it took a few months to alert me. The first time it did, I could see from about 5 background checks over 5 hours that I’d been in AF all that time. I was just about to go to bed, if I had 10 mins earlier that episode would have been missed too as I take it off for bed.

Link to how Apple Watch measures heart rate support.apple.com/en-us/120....

You can read about the two methods, Optically for background checks and electrically for ECG. The optical sensors can be pretty inaccurate when you’re in AF but can indicate irregularities.

Best wishes

PS. Another link about AF alerts support.apple.com/en-gb/120...

[mjames1]

To me, "continuously" means that I don't have to do a damned thing to be informed that I am having afib, other than looking at the watch when it vibrates or makes a sound.

Apple watch "sort of" does this but not in real time, nor will it necessarily capture every event because it does not check "continuously". That said, many of us find it very useful both with ekg afib confirmation and tracking afib burden, sort of.

We are all looking for what you were looking for, but for a number reasons it does not currently exist.

Perhaps a sports watch with a high heart rate alert might serve you better, assuming your afib is always with a high heart rate.

Jim

[Corazon17 in reply to mjames1]

I have had a Kardia 6L for several months, so I don't have a problem with determining afib when I'm having an episode at home.

The watch has accurately diagnosed afib episodes, but (as I describe in the post) I have to initiate a quest for info.

At times, though, the watch will count a rate in the high 40s when I'm in afib with a rate well over 100, per the Kardia.

Your idea of a sports watch is intriguing. How does such a watch alert one to a high pulse rate? (My afib so far has always been with very high pulse rates.)

[mjames1 in reply to Corazon17]

I haven't had a sport watch for a while, but used to be able to set heart rate zone with an alert if you went over. There are a lot of different models out there so I just find one with that function.

Jim

[Buzby62 in reply to Corazon17]

Instantaneous Heart Rate readings on devices when in AF are pretty much meaningless and you should only look at the average by counting beats in 60 seconds or look at the average on the kardia or watch ECG over 30 seconds.

Instantaneously 3 beats in a second can read as 180bpm and then a pause of 2 seconds might record a 30bpm. Both quite normal in my experience of AF.

Best wishes

[bean_counter27 in reply to Buzby62]

The high HR alarm is only being used to alert Corazon17 for possible AF. So doesn't really matter if alternating between excessively high and low results because of AF so long as excessively high rate triggers alarm and brings it to Corazon17's attention.

[Buzby62 in reply to bean_counter27]

Yes, my point was that the figures seen in the highs and lows instantaneously when in AF are pretty irrelevant but a good indicator for irregularities. It’s the ECG average rate that matters in deciding if AF rate is controlled effectively. That’s my understanding.

Best wishes

[opal11uk]

I have a Fitbit and it states not suitable for those who are diagnosed with A/F however a constant heart rate is highlighted at all times on the watch face and that shows the rate without problem so, although it doesn't show you A/F the little heart on the front will let you know.

[Corazon17 in reply to opal11uk]

Well, the heart rate shows only when the watch is tapped. That is, if I'm using battery-saving mode.

Really, my post was mainly about the assertion that I thought I saw that Apple watches *continuously* monitor for afib and notify a person when afib is under way. I could not see how that was possible, and I now see that it is not literally the case with Apple watches. Instead, Apple watches require the same procedure as my Fitbit watch -- ask for an ECG and grab the sides.

[Ppiman]

No device can monitor AF without two separate connections to your body. In the case of the Apple Watch, this is achieved with the rear electrode being permanently touching the wrist and, while the app is running, ine finger touching the crown. For continuous AF checking, what the Watch does instead is to check every so often for the kind of irregularities in heart rate that might indicate AF is happening, and it then alerts you to take an ECG for confirmation.

I find the Apple Watch to be my number one electronic device, despite its cost. It does so much, does it well, and looks great!

Steve

[Oldforge73 in reply to Ppiman]

Totally agree.

[Ppiman in reply to Oldforge73]

Thank you. I’ve corrected the typos. I rather rushed writing that.

Steve

[Corazon17 in reply to Ppiman]

What is the form of this alert?

[Buzby62 in reply to Corazon17]

I included a link about AF alerts in my first reply above

support.apple.com/en-gb/120...

Best wishes

[Buzby62 in reply to Buzby62]

Alert

Click on picture to open up

[Corazon17 in reply to Buzby62]

Does a sound or vibration accompany this?

[Buzby62 in reply to Corazon17]

Yes, both, when it eventually decides to alert after a few hours if you have been at rest long enough for the checks to take place. It won’t alert you immediately or any time soon really and may miss short episodes all together. The instructions advise you to turn off alert mode once diagnosed with AF and use the alternative setting called AF history which gives a weekly report, but that can also miss episodes the same as in alert mode.

It’s definitely not a continuous monitor

I wouldn’t be without mine but as I tell members here you have to be aware of the restrictions and anomalies or it can make things worse for the anxiety.

Best wishes

[Ppiman in reply to Corazon17]

You can set various forms of notification, I believe. I use it rarely and then only overnight when I just check in the mornings. I always know during the daytime when my heart is playing up without the Watch alerting me.

Steve

[Thomas45]

When I had paroxysmal AF, I could feel it in my neck. I did not need any device to tell me. Now I have permanent though asymptomatic AF, l know I am in AF all the time.What I can't understand is why you'd wish to know. Presumably you're on treatment for AF.

[bean_counter27 in reply to Thomas45]

I have paroxysmal AF and want to know when in AF. Information like frequency and duration of episodes is important for my cardiologist to consider in determining ongoing treatment.

[Thomas45 in reply to bean_counter27]

Out of interest how did you find out that you had AF?

[bean_counter27 in reply to Thomas45]

After several visits to doctor, ER and cardiologist because of heart/chest discomfort "episodes" that were put down to reflux and ectopic beats (Holter monitor) AF was eventually caught on ECG during last visit to ER. Never heard of AF until diagnosed.I have several symptomatic episodes a year ranging in duration of minutes to half a day. Only had 2 episodes since December both measured in minutes. So frequency and duration trending down. Current treatment (medications) and lifestyle changes working???

[Buzby62 in reply to bean_counter27]

Same for me, it was those records from the watch that the ablation decision was made on, I recorded 40+ episodes on my watch in just under 3 years, none of the investigations I had ever captured it. I had one ECG at my surgery to confirm AF seen by the watch and that is the one and only official record of my AF.

[Corazon17 in reply to Thomas45]

I can usually tell when I'm in afib. But sometimes when I think I am, the devices say that I am not.

I'm still new to this -- 4 months in, with 11 episodes lasting eight hours or more.

This after many. many years of suspecting something was amiss, but persuading my GP only when I showed him a tracing from my new Kardia monitor.

So right now, I'm keeping track of frequency and duration, in case my new cardiologist needs to tweak meds or possibly recommends action, like ablation.

I'll be 77 years old in a couple of weeks. My general tendency is to resists actions like surgery, and it seems that many people of my vintage, especially men, are in the ride-it-out mode, but do take meds.

[mhoam]

Hi Corazon17 ,

Not specifically about AF, but I personally would avoid Fitbit now that they have been bought by Google. They will soon require you to link your Fitbit data to your Google account and there have been scandals in the USA where this personal information has been sold. There has also been reductions in the staff at Fitbit and it seems that the brand is under threat.

Of course, if the device helps you manage your AF then that is great but a more secure alternative may be better.

Good luck

[Corazon17 in reply to mhoam]

Yes, the Google connection is extremely "concerning," I have lied about my age and birthdate and name as far as the watch goes, and I think my Google account has also been lied to, at least a bit. It's not pleasing to see email tell me that my watch needs to be charged and that I walked 2,000 steps fewer this week than my average for last month.

In addition, I don't trust its step counter. And sometimes I cannot get out of a menu hell unless I take the watch off for a few minutes. And I cannot seem to eliminate menu options that I have no desire to use (YouTube Music, for example). And I resent the occasional implications that I'm an inferior person in great peril for not upgrading to a monthly plan.

As far as my AF goes, I use the watch to confirm afib episodes when I'm away from home, without the Kardia monitor. And these have not occurred yet.

I also use the watch many times during waking hours, especially in the late evening, to see my heart rate. I still cannot believe it's in the low 50s, with a rare 49. This comes from Metoprolol, I suppose.

So the watch is minimally useful. I wish I could pare down its menus to get only the functions I need. I think of 1980s DOS programs where I could do that!

[Lozza53]

I have a fitbit versa 2… it tells me how many zone minutes my heart has been in. When I’m in afib, I get peak zone minutes just sitting, but the watch thinks I’m doing vigorous exercise 🤣. It’s good to have the watch to know what’s going on, but I try not to get too consumed with constant checking.

[Corazon17 in reply to Lozza53]

Exactly. I don't like constant checking, and I don't do constant checking. But the limitations of the watches are such that one must check, and not be advised.