heart rate variability

[layla3]

when in Af my heart variability goes up to 145 when sleeping is this bad? I’m on sotalol, rivaxaban

[jeanjeannie50]

It depends how long it stays at 145bpm. Sometimes it can just pop in a fast beat here and there.

Jean

[layla3 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

The past 3 nights it’s like that when in AF.

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to layla3]

How long is it at that high rate?

[Buzby62 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hi Jean, HRV is not BPM, see mine and Jim’s reply below.

Best wishes

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Buzby62]

All I'm asking simply, is if it stays at that high rate for long.

[Buzby62 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

It’s not the Heart Rate and has no real relation to the Heart Rate.

Heart Rate Variability is one of the statistics you can view from an Apple Watch or similar. It’s a measure of how your beats are varying rather than how fast it’s going. You can have an average rate in AF below 100bpm but the HRV can still be 200ms +

It’s a difficult one to explain, hope that makes sense to everyone

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Buzby62]

I know what it is, thanks.

[mjames1]

To clarify, per some of the answers here, I assume we're talking about HRV and not heart rate? If that's the case., HRV is meaningless if you're actively in a fib and not surprising, it's that high. However, if you're actually talking about heart rate, then it is high and you should discuss rate control with your doctor.

Jim

[Buzby62 in reply to mjames1]

Took the words out of my mouth/keyboard Jim.

HRV is milliseconds not beats per minute and is a measure of how your beat-beat is varying. I believe it’s used by athletes to measure response to exertion and recovery from exertion but when in AF it goes sky high as in AF your beat to beat is varying excessively. I’ve seen mine just under 300ms while in AF. It was averaging around 40-50ms while in NSR but since my ablation is averaging low 20s.

Best wishes

[Lbeat796 in reply to Buzby62]

From what I understand from my Fitbit a low HRV is not good. It states it becomes lower when older. I suppose it measures how quickly your heart can adapt to circumstances. But that’s just what I got from Fitbit

[En85]

My answer is based on observations of my HRV when I was over 6 months in persistent AF the past year. Mine was in that range or over and the night used to be worse than the day. I wasn't under any rate control because the average heat rate was in the 80s bpm, so that HRV was not considered an alert, I suppose it just means that beats are totally random jumping from a value to the other. My daily HRV average was 150-160, with peaks 260 ms (I checked again now).

[CDreamer]

Well it would because your heart rhythm would be variable. Your HRV is not something you would normally take much notice of, unlike your heart rate!

[Singwell]

So the question Jeanie asks is still the key one - how long does your heart stay at that rate? If all you've got is an HR reading without a graph, then you can't tell. What's the lower end of the range? Your reading should give lowest and highest. You can only get an average over time, but maybe you can ask the device to tell you that? I'm speaking as someone without an Apple watch, just thinking about basic metrics.

[Mugsy15 in reply to Singwell]

The OP has not mentioned a heart rate. Layla has noticed a value on whatever monitoring device she's using that relates purely to variability. The figure 145 looks alarming because it is being confused here with heart rate (beats per minute). It is an unremarkable reading and is unlikely to be accurate anyway, given that AF baffles the algorithms in many devices.

[Singwell in reply to Mugsy15]

OP is worried though and let's hope our responses reassure. Personally I wouldn't categorically tell someone here that 145 is OK without further information. My point stands re metrics.

[Buzby62 in reply to Singwell]

We don’t know what    layla3 ’s rate is as heart rate has not been mentioned in her post.

It’s 145 milliseconds Heart Rate Variability not 145 beats per minute. You can have that variability with low or high heart rate AF.

Maybe Layla can reply with her average heart rate while she’s in AF.

HRV is irrelevant while in AF

Average Heart Rate needs to be controlled

Best wishes

[CliveP]

I can’t see how Hrv could be of any use when you’re in AF.

It’s a measure of micro variations between heart beats and is an indicator of fitness/stress/recovery from exercise. Basically, high variability good/ low variability worse due to the bodies response to stress.

AF being an extremely erratic heart rhythm would make it pretty much meaningless. It’s a measure of micro variations in normal rhythm not large erratic gaps induced by AF.

[Mugsy15 in reply to CliveP]

You said it for me! Spot on. And yes, Layla should be reassured.

[wischo]

As a general rule HRV is a useless statistic to have for the average person never mind Afib. It is a measure of your hearts ability to variate between beats responding to exercise and emotions or just moving around and as your heart is to say the least very variable in afib then the numbers on your watch are useless. All you really need are your heart rate and blood pressure and of course how you are feeling. Thats one of the stressors of fitness wearables as they have a lot of un necessary information that is likely not very accurate and only alarms people. VO2 max is another one that an apple watch can not possibly read as it is the amount of oxygen your body can use during exercise and needs a very complicated test to get a true reading. Apple uses your distance, time taken and heartrate to estimate it which is basically useless.

[Engineer46]

Hi Layla3,

As others have said, Heart Rate Variability (HRV) is of little relevance to AF patients, since it is a measure of the difference in Heart Rate from beat to beat.

When you are in AF your HRV will be high because your beats are completely random, even when you are resting or sleeping. When you are resting in sinus rhythm the beats are regular with very little difference in the time interval between them, giving a low value of HRV.

So the answer to your question "Is this bad?" with reference to an HRV of 145 is "No" if you are in AF. It also doesn't matter how long it stays at that level or higher, it's just an indication that you are in AF. The important thing is your heart rate, not HRV.

To illustrate the effect of AF on HRV I've attached a plot of a one minute recording of my instantaneous (beat to beat) heart rate and HRV. I'm in permanent AF.

Best wishes,

Paul

One minute plot of Heart Rate and Heart Rate Variability while in AF

[Nightmare2 in reply to Engineer46]

Hi, i dont know how you cope with continuous AF, mine is only P'AF at the moment. but i have to say, i disagree with all these devices people now use to plot their heart irregularities, even my Cardio told me not to overthink when in AF, i just take my rescue meds, and sit and wait for them to take effect, My husband used to be in permanent AF, he has COPD too, but since on Amiodorone a powerful drug given only to serious cases his AF is under control only had 2 breakthroughs in last 2 years or longer. all the hospital treatments did not work for him.

[Bumpitybump]

Hi Layla3, I reckon keep a record of your readings and ask a medic when you get the opportunity. My AFib is being assessed now and they are concerned with the erratic heart rate, currently I have a ECG 24 hr monitor, so maybe I will know more of the variability in my sleep then. As long as the medics know all they need to, I think that is all I can chase up. Difficult not to worry at times. Best of luck.

[Nightmare2]

When in AF, it means ones h.rate has gone up, mine goes to around he 140 something and beat all ove my body loudly, it remains fluctuating high until my rescue 2 bisoprol take effect, sometimes an hour or so, and then it gradually comes back to my normal around 50 mark.

I would never go to bed whilst in AF myself.

Of course your H.Rate is high, you are in AF. this is what Atrail Fibrilation is, it remains fluctuating until whatever meds you take to bring it down, take effect.

[Engineer46 in reply to Nightmare2]

Nightmare2, the OP (Layla3) didn't have a high heart rate, she was talking about Heart Rate Variability, which is of no importance. See various replies above.

Regarding your earlier post, many AF patients suffer no symptoms and may not know that they have AF.

Best wishes,

Paul

[Nightmare2 in reply to Engineer46]

i like to think that i am not a stupid woman, i have a good cardiologist and ask him questions and dont guess at things, what do you mean by h.r. variability. all those words mean in english to me are a h.rate that varies, well it varies all the time, all day for anyone with or without AF dependant on what one is doing, i know some dont know they are in AF too, but i stand by what i say about these devices people wear now, all i have is an oxymeter and my BP machine. i dont need either to know when I personally am in AF, its instant, i have one attack about every 20th of the month like clockwork, the last one 2 days ago, i had really high BP unusual for me, then within an hour AF. I am seeing cardiologist 2 ays time and he will answer my questions

[Buzby62 in reply to Engineer46]

I didn’t know until I had an Apple Watch, see my bio.

[Buzby62 in reply to Nightmare2]

Hi Nightmare2, AF is not necessarily high heart rate, it does come with high rate for many and that’s where the meds come in to lower the rate to help with symptoms.

AF is an irregular heart beat and is the most common type of arrhythmia. It can be with low rate or high rate but it would appear to be more symptomatic when it comes with high rate.

Link to AF fact file api.heartrhythmalliance.org...

Best wishes

[Abbyroza]

HRV is a worthless figure for someone in atrial fibrillation. It is bound to be higher than normal, given the immense ‘swings’ in heart rate, typical for AF.

[Shopgal67]

mine has been as high as 123 and it’s usually about 30 without an episode. My Apple Watch adjusts it during 24 hrs once out of afib and it comes down to about 70 .

[Ersilia2]

Check with your Doctor to put you at ease, , my Doc told me not to worry about it.It can go as high as 200 milliseconds.

[frazeej]

My cardiologist said your HRV has little meaning for those on beta blockers, as there haven’t been any studies on this that he has seen.

[Mugsy15]

Layla I hope you've been reassured by this thread. If I may add to what I said earlier and perhaps summarise: wrist-worn devices are largely aimed at those who train for fitness. One measure of fitness these people may wish to monitor is HRV. The fitter you are, so the theory goes, the more your heart can vary the size of the gaps between beats during and after exercise.

This measurement is not aimed at AF sufferers, whose variability is bound to be high for reasons that have nothing to do with fitness.

You can therefore ignore this function of your device as it has no relevance to you or your condition.

I hope this helps.

[kitenski]

My HRV score always rockets when I have AF, I've often used it to check if I went into AF or not overnight!

[Halfheart]

It's normal. HRV is just a mathematical computation applied to all the intervals between your heartbeats. If all your heartbeats were exactly 1 second apart, your HR would be 60bpm and your HRV would be 0mS. Normal hearts aren't that regular, so the typical HRV is found to be around 50mS. That is about what you get if your HR from beat to beat is going something like 60bpm, 61bpm, 62 bpm, 62bpm, 60bpm 58bpm, 57bpm. Your HR is not changing by more than a few bpm in that example. But if your HR starts changing up and down something like 5- 10bpm quite quickly, then that will typically compute out to an HRV of over 100mS. Any higher than that is a good sign that you could be in afib. It's actually quite a useful diagnostic tool. Usually my HRV would go to 200mS when I was in afib.

But it's not actually telling you anything more than the fact that your beat intervals are very spread out and not clustered close around the average. You can put all your beat intervals into a spreadsheet and calculate HRV from there, there's nothing else you need to know other than those intervals. I did this once just to double-check what my Apple Watch was telling me.