Electrolytes and paroxysmal

[Aprilla12345]

Any one have any experience on this subject

[CDreamer]

Depends what you mean by experience. I try to ensure my eating plan includes foods rich in electrolytes and that seems to work for me.

What are you asking?

[Ppiman]

I have had lots of discussions with my doctors about this and read widely. In general, electrolytes are all carefully balanced by the body's own metabolism in a process called "homeostasis". A healthy diet with lots of fruit, nuts and veg added to meat or a protein source will provide all that is needed. Actual shortages are unusual and mostly caused by other factors that a doctor will uncover. Antacids called PPIs are sometimes responsible, too, but again - unusual.

Steve

[108cat in reply to Ppiman]

My understanding is that yes hydration and electrolytes are important for Afib. I have read/heard that modern farming methods leach Magnesium and other minerals from the soil, consequently our vegetables are lacking and according to Sanjay Gupta and others, most of the population are deficient. If this is true and if you can find it and afford it, organic veg would be the best option. Gupta has also said that PPI's Omeprazole etc. inhibit absorbtion of Magnesium and suggests leaving off Omeprazole for a few days to take Magnesium (supplements). My hiatus hernia symptoms can trigger Afib so I can't do that, the next best thing is to leave maximum time between taking PPI (say) in morning and Magnesium at night.

Fresh coconut water (not the milk) is a good source of electrolytes ..

[Ppiman in reply to 108cat]

I’m afraid some of what you’ve written isn’t quite right. If magnesium were depleted in vegetables, for example, their leaves wouldn’t be green. Organic or not, magnesium is in all vegetable matter. Green or not, a healthy diet will do the job.

Dr Gupta is quite wrong on PPIs. It’s one of several scientific errors he makes that prove he’s not quite telling the whole truth of the matter (for whatever reason).

The science is clear.

Steve

[108cat in reply to Ppiman]

I really don't think Dr Gupta is wrong ... pages of medical opinion and research online (including from NIH, FDA, and NHS) in response to the question "Do PPIs inhibit the absorption of Magnesium?" appear to say he's right.

I feel it's necessary to say this because it could be important for those of us who are on PPIs long term .. indeed for some it may have been the initial trigger or cause of Afib ...

This from the NHS website:

If you take omeprazole for more than 3 months, the levels of magnesium in your blood may fall. Low magnesium can make you feel tired, confused, dizzy and cause muscle twitches, shakiness and an irregular heartbeat. If you get any of these symptoms, tell your doctor.

and one of the NIH articles:

Hypomagnesemia has recently been recognized as a side effect of PPIs. Low magnesium levels may cause symptoms from several systems, some of which being potentially serious, such as tetany, seizures and arrhythmias. It seems that PPIs affect the gastrointestinal absorption of magnesium. Clinicians should be vigilant in order to timely consider and prevent or reverse hypomagnesemia in patients who take PPIs.

On vegetables, I'm less clear. The issue is whether the level of Magnesium in modern farmed vegetables is enough to support good health in humans.

Your comments made me do some research, which is always a good thing!

My understanding is that yes, Magnesium is a central component of chlorophyll, and a plant deficient in Magnesium may have a visibly less green marking - however to my mind it may not necessarily follow that a plant that is perfectly green to the naked eye will have the right amount of Magnesium for human health, the only thing we can be sure about is that it appears to have the right amount of Magnesium for the plant to be green.

I'm not in a position to argue this, I'm no scientist.

An interesting you tube lecture by a Dr Bassem El Kholor, 2019 (which you could find online) convinced me that organic might be the way to go. I also prefer the taste and vibrancy of organic food, but that's just my preference. I'm lucky to find it in abundance in the countryside.

Thank you for making me dig deeper!

best wishes,

[Ppiman in reply to 108cat]

I could have been clearer. There is no question that long-term PPIs have the potential to cause hypomagnesaemia, but the incidence of this, so far as I can discover - and hopefully so since I take esomeprazole and have done for years - seems to be very low (although it remains unknown just what it is).

In the video I saw, Dr Gupta recommended taking magnesium taurate as a supplement to prevent this. However, oral magnesium has been shown to be completely ineffective in restoring reduced levels caused by PPIs. The only way to restore levels is to stop taking the PPI, which has been shown to allow the levels to normalise quickly.

The difficulty is that when PPI drugs are being used to treat acid reflux disease, stopping them causes severe rebound acidity and a rapid resumption of the reflux problem, with the potentially serious consequences that this brings in its wake.

It's a predicament. I have had my magnesium levels checked and they remain normal but I remain concerned by the potential problem (and, is retrospect, I would likely never have begun taking a PPI in the first place).

Steve

[Goldfish7 in reply to Ppiman]

I'd have to agree with Dr Gupta. There are numerous research citations in relation to PPI's and their effect on vitamin and mineral absorbtion. I understand that is one of the reasons Dr's are advised to limit the duration of courses of PPI's.

There are also numerous articles and videos discussing the effects of modern farming on soil degradation which is now being seen as a very serious problem.

[Ppiman in reply to Goldfish7]

I think you might have missed my point. Yes, you are correct regarding the potential for PPI drugs to block uptake, but, when they do so (which clearly is not so often as some suggest), then the body becomes completely unable to absorb oral magnesium. Hence, taking extra magnesium simply will not work. The only solution when this happens is to stop taking the PPI. Dr Gupta must know this.

Steve

[Goldfish7 in reply to Ppiman]

thanks for clarifying, my apologies for misunderstanding your answer. Obviously it is pointless taking supplements whilst still taking PPI'PPI's as they still wont get absorbed. However, for magnesium in particular, magnesium sprays and oils may be of some help, but I dont know how effective they would be at correcting a major magnesium defecit.

[Ppiman in reply to Goldfish7]

I haven't read much that points to things like Epsom Salts bath or whatever working to increase Mg absorption, but it's a thought. I take PPIs and have for well over ten years. I still do produce stomach acid, though - or seem to as whenI get bloated or constipated (quite often), I find myself getting some acid reflux still. I am guessing that the PPI is only partially stooping the acid and, maybe, this is why I have never knowingly had side effects and my electrolytes / B12 always show as normal?

It's a worry though as I have read of the potential long term side effects. I did try to stop them a few years ago, replacing with older drugs like ranitidine, but had such awful acid reflux that I was forced to resume them. Goodness knows what I would do if I were forced to stop them.

Steve

[ozziebob]

Have you tried the HU Search 🔍 option at the top of the page? Here's the results for "electrolytes" ...

healthunlocked.com/search/p...

[Iamfuzzyduck]

i believe an electrolyte imbalance causes my afib (it causes a migraine and vomiting and then afib). My cardiac thoracic consultant agreed it could be due to an electrolyte imbalance