My wife recently had a PAF episode. As she had gone past the 24 hour period for a cardioversison we sought info online. I watched a video where someone speaks of taking electrolytes which halted their afib episode. I'm seeking any clear info on if and how taking electrolytes might help. Also if it does how to decide which ones/kinds as there are so many choices.
Electrolytes???: My wife recently had a... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Electrolytes???
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Hillburn
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BobDVolunteer
If your wife has AF has she not been taking anticoagulants? This removes any time constraints on cardioversion.
I used to up my electrolytes by drinking natural (no sugar added) Innocent Coconut Water (not the milk). Then it just became more and more expensive, now about £4.30 for 1 Litre. You can buy cheaper but so many have added sugar. Now I just rely on a banana a day. Sodium is another good source and I've read on this forum of people stopping an AF attack by drinking water with salt added. The pink Himalayan Mountain salt is the best and I use a fine one for cooking and in my salt pot.
Jean
Hi Jean
You mention a Banana a day. In the context that you've written I'd never have thought of banana like that. I'm not a very 'fruity' person ( except for Grapefruit ), but I've had one banana a day with lunch for sooooooo long I just can't remember when I started the habit. Just can't remember at all, maybe after my AF first kicked of in January 2010 ... but to be truthful, I really can't remember. Very interesting.
John
I'm the same as you John and always eat a banana each day. I probably eat too much fruit but it's my favourite food.
Jean
Jean,
My favourite food it ........ wait for it ..... beer, red wine, white wine, Baileys .... ohhh the list goes on and on. 😂😱😂😱
John
Jean, look in the Caribbean/Jamacian section of foreign foods in the supermarket. I came across their own unadulterated coconut water at half the price or less. It’s on the shelf and not in the fridge. This was in Sainsbury’s but think it’s fairly general.
Thank you Frances, will certainly look.
I'm assuming the 24 Hour limitation you're talking about is because your wife has not been on anticoagulants?
If so, she still still can be cardioverted safely two ways. She can start anticoagulation and then be cardioverted in "x" weeks.
Or she can be cardioverted right away with a short procedure called a TOE performed at the same time of the cardioversion.
I've been in the same position a few times and had the TOE (TEE in the United States) which allowed me to be cardioverted immediately.
You really want to get her back in normal rhythm as soon as possible so speak to your doctors.
Jim
Take care with what you watch and follow on the internet.For a start. You can't be sure what type of aFib that person in the video was suffering with, if it was a rare , acute event triggered by another illness or part of their usual health profile, and where they got the advice initially.
People could have various types of aFib, intermittent/ paroxysmal, persistent, long standing persistent or permanent and you need to be careful in case other health issues also need to be taken into consideration.
Dehydration is actually more of a concern in triggering aFib because it causes a salt imbalance, which is why I good way to help reduce aFib events from occurring is to keep properly hydrated.
You can't be sure if electrolytes are the cause of an aFib event for a person whom suffers it as a health condition , not just as an acute cardiac event that occurred because of another illness , severe dehydration or an electrolyte deficiency.
Unless it definitely occurred after a period of severe sweating or cardio exercise without proper hydration and snacks you can't be sure which mineral you may need , or if you need a increase in minerals at all without proper kidney function/ electrolytes blood tests including a check on Magnesium levels.
People with Atrial Fibrillation can have diverse needs.
Some of us need more electrolytes everyday to reduce the chance of tachycardia and Arrhythmias because of the type of long term cardiac conditions we have that might also trigger our aFib events.
Some of are not affected or helped by having more electrolytes as a preventative or during an aFib incident .
Some people require less electrolytes because they are high in certain electrolytes already or dehydrated so taking more or the wrong combination of salts could trigger an AF event or make the aFib worse.
If you are actually in an active aFib event and new to dealing with your individual needs with the condition it is not the time to try and DIY it.
You need proper medical treatment and advice or medication which is appropriately prescribed for you .
I'd look at the reply from mjames1 and discuss the options with a Cardio , and check about your wife's need for anticoagulants .
Hope things improve for her soon , Bee
Very wise words. We can’t treat AF by watching YouTube videos. The person in the video will not have the same medical history, comorbidities, or diagnosis for that matter. There’s nothing wrong with eating a banana or having a glass of coconut water, but it’s important to keep perspective. These are foods, not a medical intervention. Our bodies regulate our electrolytes quite strictly to maintain homeostasis so when the levels of one electrolyte go up, there will be a reciprocal decrease in another. It’s not a good idea to try and “bio hack” your electrolytes with specific supplements unless prescribed, but eating bananas, potatoes or whatever won’t actually make much material difference unless you have reduced kidney function, perhaps. In which case you’d be on a special diet.
Thanks much for your sage advice. ❤️
I’m always careful to keep my electrolytes up but like Jean - from my food wherever possible so learn which foods are rich in electrolytes - eat a well balanced diet and try to eat at least 30 different foods a day. Variety really is the spice of life and if you do vary your diet you will get all the electrolytes from your food which will help prevent an AF episode. If it does - then pure coconut is a good source or just take a salty snack and keep up the hydration - they go hand in hand.
Dehydration and electrolyte imbalance are often big triggers for AF so managing those may help - doesn’t mean you won’t ever have AF - but it will help diminish and shorten the episode.
Coconut water seems to work, it is rich in potassium which seems to help and its natural
Unless your wife recently had a severe stomach upset or has a poor diet she shouldn’t be low on electrolytes. The problem would arise if she over hydrated for an extended period. But if you want to try it you can buy hydration tablets or sachets intended for people with D&V!
Those sachets are usually just salt and glucose, you could easily make your own drink with a little bit of sugar and a couple of twists of salt added to warm water to help it dissolve. But I agree, electrolytes aren’t really an issue unless someone has diarrhoea, vomiting, just done a lot of very strenuous exercise (like a marathon or the Tour de France) or hasn’t eaten any food at all for several days.
Was thinking of it more as a placebo ☺️
The placebo effect is real! 😂
I keep reading on the internet about milk as a good source of rehydration. Statements like ...
"Milk is a natural choice when it comes to electrolytes, providing many of the same electrolytes that are added to commercial recovery drinks (calcium, potassium, sodium and magnesium) along with fluids to help you rehydrate."
But I haven't seen milk mentioned in this context on the Forum. Am I missing something?
PS. I would only ever advocate organic whole milk.
No, the information is correct. Milk is 1.4 times more hydrating than water and it does contain “electrolytes”. Despite the myths, milk is not an inherently “bad” food and most people of European ancestry can consume milk without any problems. Unfortunately I can’t, it goes straight through me and that’s most unpleasant. Just because I can’t tolerate milk, I am not of the opinion that therefore it’s “bad” and everyone should avoid it. However, I doubt very much whether a glass of milk is going to to stop an episode of AF, which is kind of getting back to what the OP’s question is about.
Thanks for replying.
From what you say, milk is just as likely to work as anything else ... it's one of the options ... which the OP did ask about.
And personally, I'm more likely to have organic milk🥛in my fridge than organic coconut milk🥥 when AF strikes.
And because of the protein in milk🤔, it's also recommended for rehydration after exercise.🤸♀️
Who knew?
Yes, a very good post workout drink by all accounts.
Personally I don’t think in terms of foods in relation to AF as I believe it’s overall diet quality that matters and that a larger variety of foods and food groups are going to provide the greatest diversity of nutrients, as well as different fibre sources that will benefit the gut microbiome. I’ve nothing against milk, coconut water or even electrolyte drinks. If someone finds them helpful for AF or any other condition, that’s great, and you won’t know unless you try. Unfortunately I’ve had no success with either coconut water or electrolyte sachets to reduce my ectopic burden especially when it was constant, and the least amount of ectopics in years by not doing anything in particular, so who knows?
Re getting a balanced and varied diet to help with your AF and ectopics (I agree), where do you stand re Vitamin D? Do you supplement? Do you get your serum Vitamin D level periodically tested? And thereby have an ongoing awareness of your current serum Vitamin D level. And finally, what level (nmol/L) do you consider adequate re your aim for overall health and for avoiding the risks of various arrhythmias as highlighted in research. My experience showed that my AF had definitely been negatively affected by a Vitamin D deficiency.
bob.
Yes, I supplement with vitamin D3 as recommended by my doctor to protect my bone health. I’ve been supplementing with vitamin D every day for maybe the past 12 years, possibly longer. Before then I was a bit on-and-off with it. I have my vitamin D levels checked periodically and they are optimal but not super high, I don’t respond particularly well to supplements in that my blood tests stay at around the same level regardless of the dose consumed. I’ve experimented with dosages and sprays, and even a high dose spray didn’t actually increase my levels at all. It may be my genetics, or it maybe the level where my body prefers to operate. As I’m in the UK, sunlight exposure isn’t often possible even in the brighter months because it’s often too cold to expose the skin to sunlight, and as I’m a Celt who burns very easily, it’s hard to get enough sun exposure without burning so I supplement all year round.
As for AF, having adequate vitamin D levels didn’t prevent me developing AF. I wasn’t deficient or suboptimal. I don’t subscribe to the cult of vitamin D where it’s the miracle cure/treatment for everything. It became a bit ridiculous during the pandemic especially with it being touted as the miracle Covid treatment/prevevtion. Having taken it for years, I knew it didn’t prevent colds or flu, so how was it going to prevent Covid? That’s so far-fetched. Don’t get me wrong, we should address deficiencies and shortfalls, and vitamin D is one nutrient where the food first approach might not be enough. My husband finds that vitamin D helps with his mood during the dark winter months and takes it along with using a SAD lamp. I’m certainly not saying it can’t help with certain conditions. It may in part be responsible for my increased bone density, along with other strategies, which is the main reason I take it. Maybe it lessens the AF burden, it’s hard to say in my case as I was taking it daily before AF.
Thanks for your helpful reply. I knew you would have a strong "opinion" on Vitamin D.
However your assertions about Vitamin D would mean more to me if you felt able to share with me your current nmol/L level that leaves you so reassured. And what is the dosage you are supplementing each day?
These are vital questions in the light of the fact that NICE guidelines for an "adequate" level of Vitamin D are woefully out of date, and relate more to preventing ricketts than for AF and general health purposes.
PS. I don't mind a PM if you want to keep these details private.
Basically I'm asking about how you manage your Vitamin D levels because you didn't mention it re diets for AF, and yet I have found it impossible (at my age) to have adequate levels of Vitamin D by diet or direct sunshine alone, and my understanding is that Vitamin D definitely needs to be monitored for those with AF.
I’ve just replied to you! I had a super busy day yesterday.
I am still hoping you might be able to address my previous queries ...
"...your assertions about Vitamin D would mean more to me if you felt able to share with me your current nmol/L level that leaves you so reassured. And what is the dosage you are supplementing each day?"
bob
I’m not into sharing my blood test results with random people online. I don’t think it’s appropriate.
My queries were because of my ongoing genuine desire to understand better the varying effects of Vitamin D absorption and supplementation in a wider context than my limited cohort of one, and as this AF Forum is the only public forum to which I belong, it was natural for me to ask these questions on this (health) Forum. Especially given the large impact I believe Vitamin D3 supplementation has played in my AF journey, and the strong opinions on Vitamin D you expressed in your Replies.
PS. If you want to see my Vitamin D serum levels, they are in my Bio.
A random bob.
These things are difficult to ascertain, Bob. So many variables for a start. Different people have different underlying causes, and we all have different genetics, different metabolism profiles, different family histories, and so on. It’s going to be difficult to parse out the role of just one factor with any certainty.
No probs. As many others on the Forum are not as guarded as you with the essential anonymous details I requested, I will exclude you from my ongoing Vitamin D investigations.
Have you had your Vitamin B12 and Folate levels checked.I had Vitamin D deficiency for over a year despite a good supplement , it dropped to Deficienct every time I stopped supplements, then it remained below the optimum of 100+ nmol/L even with a higher dose after two years of constant treatment. I also had recurring anaemia which deteriorated into Megaloblastic Anaemia until my Vitamin B 12 Deficiency was finally diagnosed.
I've not had Vitamin D insufficiency since starting Vitamin B12 injections and Folates, and both my Vitamin D and Iron levels returned to normal range once the B12 issue was treated.
I don't have Pernicious Anaemia but the type of B12 Deficiency caused by low stomach acid and low pancreatic enzymes which means I cannot digest things properly from food. Many people can have problems absorbing Vitamin B12, especially if they are on certain medications like Antacids or PPIs.
Age also reduces your stomach acid which is why people over 65 can often have an issue with B12 levels and Iron.
You need B12 and Folates to properly metabolise Vitamin D and Iron , whether you get them from food or supplements. B12 and Folate Deficiency also increase cardiac arrhythmia symptoms.
My aFib occurrences and other arrhythmia improved and my Tachycardia Syndrome is easier to manage now that I have B12 injections and Methylfolate.
You obviously need to be careful with Vitamin D supplementation as if you have normal levels too much can be toxic.
I actually use BetterYou , 3000 iuVitamin D+ K2 spray.
Each day in the Winter , every three days in Summer when I can get into the sunlight. An active spray after your fattiest meal of the day is better absorbed , even for people with digestive problems like me.
The spray contains the K2 ( M-7) which has been researched to help improve cardiovascular health, so that spray is a dual supplement that I find very practical and would recommend.
Thanks for your helpful contribution.
Luckily I'm not on any medication, so no medications will be directly affecting the absorption of my Vitamin D3 supplement (my only supplement).
Re my B12 level, I did have that tested in relation to the peripheral neuropathy I had and continue to suffer. My B12 level is midrange, not as high as it might be, but also not a cause for alarm to me or apparently the cause of my neuropathy, as I was testing.
My serum folate is more towards the lower end of the normal range, but once again, not outside the acceptable.
I still need to do more research into the the benefits of trying to move my natural diet produced levels of B12 and folate to any higher levels by supplementation.
Thanks again.
Oh yes, just to clarify a bit more, my current D level is about 100ish nmol/L, and that's from supplementing currently with 4000iu D3 + 100mcg K2 ( both in one capsule) per day. And my GP has agreed to repeat my Vitamin D blood test annually to ensure I don't move into either dangerously low (again) or high levels. Next test is due in April.
Do you take your capsule after the meal you have each day with the highest fat content, Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin so requires some fat present during digestion for optimum absorption, having it after a meal , like with most supplements means it stays in the digestive system longer helping you to get a maximum absorption.If you only take supplements with water you often end up just creating rather expensive urine.
Yes, during/after evening meal, largest fat content. Now you know my secrets!🤫
That’s for taking the time to write this very informative post. My own vitamin D levels are good, but regardless of supplement dosage they never change. I currently take 2000IU but that’s only because the 1000IU was sold out. I have taken higher doses including the Better You 3000IU spray but I had identical blood test results on 1000IU. It may sound counterintuitive but 4000IU doesn’t do anything either. I don’t respond to much over 1000IU. There is some information from the UK Biobank study that estimates that about 1 in 8 people in the UK have lower vitamin D levels because of their genetics, and I suspect I am one of those. There is also a difference between how the body makes vitamin D from sunlight and from taking a supplement, and the body does have a natural cutoff point where it slows down production, whereas for some people taking supplements the levels keep on going up. That doesn’t seem to happen in my case, but I’m not on a mission to biohack my blood test. It is what it is, and that’s as much attention as I want to give to it.
As for B12/folate, my folate levels are consistently high and at times above range. That’s all from dietary sources. I do not take folic acid supplements or foods fortified with folic acid. My body does as good job with folates, as it does with B12 despite a predominantly plant based diet, although I do have plant based dairy alternatives that are fortified with B12. I’ve never had an issue with B12. As I’m an iron overloader, my ferritin is never low, and I have venesections to keep it below a certain threshold. These are things I never worry about, and I do have a haematologist looking at my blood tests periodically. If they’re happy I’m happy.
Exactly, it's all very individual, no "one size fits all" in diet , or in the requirement of supplements , just as there is no " one size fits all " in exercise or prescribed medications.As an iron overloader , if your B12 and Folates are in normal range , you wouldn't want to be boosting the B's or VitC with supplements because it could also cause an increase in Iron uptake that you wouldn't want.
There are no quick obvious ABC cures ( either natural or pharmaceutical) when dealing with chronic illnesses and our different genetic and medical needs. It's all trial and error to find what works for personal needs .
Absolutely no vitamin C! I’m not one for taking supplements. I don’t believe it’s necessary or “healthy” to take high doses of synthetic vitamins or trace minerals unless there is a proven medical need to do so. I don’t consider supplements as quasi medications either. I’m very much all for the food first approach because nutrients work synergistically and there are hundreds of potentially beneficial compounds in just one food that are still not yet evaluated in their role in human health. Vitamin D is a nutrient of concern in the UK, so it’s wise for most people to supplement.
Hi
Make up your own.
1 Litre Spring water or fresh tank water boiled, add pinch iodized salt, 1 tsp glucose and sqeeze orange, lemon etc.
I buy UP&GO (2 weetbix in box with added minerals and vitamins etc).
cheri JOY. 75 (NZ)
ok..I started an episode as I was having lunch…..
I drank a glass of water containing an electrolyte tablet and took my flecanide tablet instead of taking it in the evening,. The palpitations stopped in a couple of hrs…my flecanide wouldn’t have done that that quick I know…so…was it going to be a full blow afib attack or just a digestive issue….
It happened 2 days later….i did the same…electrolyte and a flecanide and it worked.
Both occasions happened after free weights ..shower, brisk walk…then came home for lunch..what was only a salad and a sandwich,,can’t re but certainly not a heavy lunch.
Was this all a fluke? It won’t hurt you having the electrolyte for sure, try it
From your description of what you did before these events it sounds more likely that you were low in electrolytes or dehydrated because of the exercise you did.It may not have been an aFib attack or a digestive issue, but a combination of dehydration and it's accompanying electrolyte imbalance after sweating that caused palpitations and aFib like symptoms.
In which case, you did need to increase your intake of water and electrolytes and that's why it solved the symptoms.
If you hadn't eaten enough before your exercise , or drank enough water before and during your exercise, and then didn't top up on a healthy snack straight after the activity it would also make these symptoms more likely .
In the extreme, this scenario could increase the risk of an active aFib event as well.
Your lunch just didn't come in time to make your body happy.
This can happen to anyone , including the generally healthy with no aFib.
So, it might be a good idea to take a snack with you and drink more water while you exercise to prevent this happening more often, take care , Bee
I do tho. Usually drunk 800ml when exercising..have a protein shake after weights…breakfast has carbs for energy……weird
I suppose in that case you may be over hydrating during exercise which is also a possibility and can cause electrolyte imbalance and symptoms too. What electrolyte combo is in your protein shake? this might be a key to the symptoms .Getting the right balance in pre and post workout regimes can take a lot of trial and error , can be harder to balance with cardiac conditions , and differs for each individual .
I’ve had the same protein shakes for years .lol I drink 1600ml of water a day which is required for my body. It’s whey protein ..emulsifiers and lecithins ..no electrolytes in it. I don’t sweat profusely when I exercise so can’t blame it on that.
Personally I think it was too much too quick for exercise so now I have lunch in between and take a walk in the afternoon.
That sounds like a sensible option , pacing your exercise pays dividends in the end, less symptoms and more consistent daily activity.Even if you don't sweat you may still be reducing your electrolytes through activity or urination. Our needs also change with our health issues.
Maybe add a banana or some green veg to your shake?
Take care , Bee
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