This is my first post on this forum but I have found it really resssuring. I just wondered whether people had been on a flight whilst having an episode of AF? I am paroxysmal at the moment but have found that my episodes are lasting at least 2 days and then only getting 1 day respite before they come again. I have been signed off from cardiologist as I did not want an ablation as I was frightened so they signed me off as they said nothing else they could do. I only take bisoprolol and warfarin. I have 2 holidays booked this year with 2 hour flights but am getting worried that if my episodes continue in this current pattern that there is a chance I will be having an episode when getting on the plane and it scares me a little. Anyone else flown whilst having an episode? Any responses much apprecuated
thank you.
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Amhan
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Yes, no different to having an episode anywhere else - actually it was better because there is absolutely nothing you can do except lie back, practice calming breathing. If it is something you are worried about, don’t be but do have a plan to cope. If you take medication then make sure it’s with you. Ensure you drink about twice as much water as you would on the ground and very quietly tell a stewardess that you may need emergency access to the head. Eating a salty snack may also help.
The times I had AF in a plane episodes converted quite quickly - hour or so.
Worst place to have AF - on a small yacht in a wind in the middle of the Atlantic or was it that time on a small boat in Icelandic fjord whale watching? I make light of it but it wasn’t nearly as comfy as in a plane!
Only caution - I did give up flying in a friend’s small, light plane if going over 2,000’ as I tended to almost black out at any sort of altitude in an unpressurised plane. That was a shame as I missed out on a few rather interesting trips.
Gosh, I read this and think what a scaredy cat, unadventurous person I am! I did fly to Finland last year but I was with my daughter and granddaughter who looked after me. I did stop my granddaughter from ordering a wheel chair to the plane! Heathrow in school holidays was a bit daunting!
PS - negotiationg the airports was the real concern for me but I have other conditions which are much more disabling. Do investigate if you can have walking assistance so you don’t have to walk miles or stand in long queues. You have to book when you book your flight but often well worth it.
Many times. No more issues than normal. Best practise is to stay well hydrated and stress free by allowing much more time at airports and staying relaxed.
"I am paroxysmal at the moment but have found that my episodes are lasting at least 2 days and then only getting 1 day respite before they come again... I only take bisoprolol and warfarin. "
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Can I ask how long your heart rate goes over 110 during these episodes, or is it controlled all the time by bisoprolol?
To be totallly honest I don’t check. I know I should. I only have a.n apple watch and am going to start checking again. I have become more complacent but should be checking
The reason I asked is that one of the most important principles with afib, is to make sure your heart rate is controlled. And even though you may technically be paroxysmal, being in afib 2 days out of 3, like you state, could potentially damage your heart, should the rate not be controlled at least most of the time.
Tracking your rate with the Watch is a good idea and should your rate be high for a good part of that 48 hour period, you have to discuss with your doctor either a better rate control plan, or alternatively a rhythm control plan. A rhythm control plan might involve daily anti-arrhythmic drugs and/or an ablation. Because at the end of the day, you do not want to do any long lasting damage to your heart.
The other thing to keep in mind, is that the longer your're in afib, the more your heart has a chance to remodel, making future interventions to get into normal rhythm more difficult. So if you're not seeing an electrophysiologist (ep) you should be. There are lots of things that can be done, so I question if you're seeing the right doctor where they just "signed you off" with such a high burden.
As to flying with afib, my experience will not benefit you. It really comes down to how you feel during an afib episode, because that is how you will feel when on the plane. Some people are fine and more or less functional during episodes and some can do little but lie down and wait for it to pass. If you're in the latter group, work out through your head, how you will handle the flight and then make a decision.
Hi Jim. Thank you so much for your reply and I will certainly start using my watch and recording the rate when I am having an episode. How does one go about getting to see an electrophysiologist. Would that be private healthcare or can you asked to be referred through your GP? The cardiology dept signed me off as I didn’t want an ablation at the time and the two medicines they gave me didn’t really work so they said there wasn’t anything else they could do. I do feel a bit left out in the cold and did think that at least I should be getting checked on if only once a year but no that’s not the case.
" How does one go about getting to see an electrophysiologist... Would that be private healthcare or can you asked to be referred through your GP?... I do feel a bit left out in the cold.
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It certainly does sound like you've been left out in the cold and time to come back inside!!!
I'm from the US, so I'm sure others will chime in on how to best navigate your system, but if not, maybe open an separate thread on this.
However, from my limited knowledge of the system, going "private" is one option. As to picking an electrophysiologist (ep), Professor Richard Shilling has an excellent reputation as well as any of the ep's at Royal Papworth. All of the mentioned will see you privately and it's as simple as calling their office. Not much of a wait as a private patient that last time I called. They will also see you through the NHS, but that involves going through the system, which again I'm not that familiar with.
Hi Jane. Yes it’s awful isn’t it. I am in Huddersfield. You just feel a bit out of control and when you have questions nobody to ask. Thank goodness for this forum 😀
You can be referred by your GP or cardiologist but the wait post Covid and with Strikes may be long these days so maybe find an EP with a private practice in your area and have an initial private appointment first and ask to be put on his NHS list.
You say you only have an Apple Watch, in my opinion that should do everything you want to record your episodes and know your average rate while in an episode. That’s all I’ve used over 3 years of PAF and recorded over 40 episodes which lead to the decision for my cryoablation just over 3 weeks ago.
In my experience you need to learn about the condition and understand if it’s under control yourself, either by rhythm control or rate control. If cardiology signed you off, I assume the bisoprolol is keeping your rate under control?
you’ll be fine Amhan. Iv had no problems if Iv ended up having the odd episode on the aircraft. Don’t let it put you off flying. Get your suitcase packed and enjoy a nice break, it will do you good.👍
I haven't ventured out since the stroke, with AF rapid and persistent. 4 days still in hospital diagnosed with a shadow on thyroid. In Sept 2019. 4 months later thyroidectomy with 12 lymph removed. Why didn't my heart change back to normal rythmn but no.
It took a private cardiologist to get me started on a CCB Diltiazem which is sometimes used as PIP pill in pocket.
I'm going to venture out. Sensible to take the 45min flight to Auckland and direct flight to Japan. I will be sleeping 1/2 of the time in the air. AirNZ.
I am happy with my choice.
But I will make sure my meds which keep my AF OK are taken.
Have your meds to the ready and I am sure you will be good.
Worrying at what could happen is a negative and adds to the potential of having an AF attack.
Hi. Thank you for your reply. The only meds I have are bisoprolol which I only take once a day. I don’t have any other meds which is what scares me. Once I go into an episode I know that’s me done for at least two days. 😞.
Just a point. I would love to make a resoloution to be free of Afib, but if you are in persistent Afib and have been treated then you CANT get out of it and need to live with longstanding Afib!!!
HOPE is when you have a stroke embollic, discovered with AF rapid & persistent, and then diagnosed with Thyroid Papillary Cancer! In one hospital stay!
I've lived with operations - Throidectomy with 12R lymphs removed, TVT Johnson & J Kit removal, and Oct had a long lasting R Shoulder rotator repair!
3 clear neck scans CLEAR.
When stroke was caused by AF which was caused by the thyroid cancer my thinking is that heart could and should return to normal. Throughout my night average is 47bpm.
Yes you could be indeed right but damage has been caused by no followup after stroke, left with Metoprolol uncontrolling my pulse of 186bpm! and causing breathlessness, no energy and pauses in night.. shown 1 year 4 mths after this drug (which I didn't want) . I was so fatigued.
My locum says that remaining on bisoprolol over 5 years should remove the severe dilation of the left atrium and stop the regurgitation in the Right Ventricle. I was diagnosed last year with a soft Systollic Heart Murmur but it's working fine and pressure is OK.
Hope is hope and I've been lucky so far except for being left with uncontrolled AF high heart rate.
Your uncontrolled AF high heart rate can be treated, are you aware of that?....You need to see your cardiologist. Thank you for your detailed reply to what I thought was a simple observation....
Just a note for CDreamer. The cabin pressure in a modern commercial airliner is equivalent to 6000 - 8000ft. You should go back to enjoying flying in a small aircraft, I don't think it was the altitude that caused your issues. More likely adrenaline although you may not have realised it.
In my employment I have flown all over the world. Sitting in a meeting with Chinese customers, working through an interpreter whilst in the middle of an Afib episode with a bpm of 150 is not to be recommended but been there and done it, more than once.
Twenty years of Afib, four ablations and 3 CV's have never stopped me doing what I needed to.
Hi Amha just wanted to say if you are having that many afib i am not sure how it is called paroxysmal i have one episode in a year and thats classes as paroxysmal and even then i was told i need an ablation immediately. It was the best decision i made i was only 25 at the time and now 10 years on after the ablation i had my first af again a couple of months ago which was caused by me! Drink soo much alchohol and coffee thinking nothing can happen as i had ablation ohhh was i proven wrong lol. What i am trying to get to is get your ablation ASAP dnt be scared this is no way of living especially if you are symptomatic like me! I am now booked in for feb to see the same surgeon who did my cyroblation at the best hospital in the uk with the best hands. Trust me get it done
Thank you for your reply. I was told to be in permanent AF your episode had to last more than 7 days before reverting to NSR so as mine are only lasting 2 days and then reverting I thought that was paroxysmal. But that may be incorrect? Anyway I need to lose quite a lot of weight which I am trying to do as I know being overweight can have a negative impact on an ablation. So want to try and get some off before I go for one. It’s quite difficult for me to lose weight as I had an accident 10 years ago where I had a broken tibia plateau which involved 6 months of non weight bearing and I now have issues with my knee and exercise. Can no longer run etc and exercise is painful. So trying to lose weight with food alone I find quite hard. But will keep trying 😀. I am glad your ablation worked for you. So did you give up alcohol altogether? I gave up caffeine but not the alcohol. Not a big drinker but like the occasional glass of wine.
You could try swimming, and water exercise. I swim 3x week and do water exercises. I’ve got to have an ablation soon. Was on flecainide and Bisoprolol until last May, I’d had more episodes, one lasting 4 days 😳 needless to say it disappeared when sitting in a&e 🙄 Consultant put me in Dronedarone, I’d refused amiodarone due to bad press, huh, only to find Dronedarone isn’t innocent.
I flew for the first time with it last February to Grenada, flight was fine but I did go into A Fib that night in hotel, probably the LONG day not enough water🙄 Luckily it didn’t last and I was ok coming back. Like the others said, you shouldn’t have been abandoned. Maybe go back to GP see what they can suggest and referral
I think any afib that comes and go and self terminates is classed as paroxysmal.? I maybe wrong. Iv had 3 ablations a few years ago and my afib has made a little comeback unfortunately.!! there is a chance I can have a fourth my cardiologist said. Luckily they last from 10 minutes to a couple of hours every couple of months.!!
Mine did work for 10 years until I rather stupidly thought AF can no longer comeback so I was on holiday in turkey last october and drank half a bottle of RAKI! 😣 I vomited and then it kicked straight back in! My AF lasts max 2 days also but no drugs can convert my AF back to sinus rythem when it does happen the only way my AF converts back is when i fall asleep.. i mean deep sleep! I wake up and it has converted. I do still drink coffee and however for the time being i have stopped alcohol. One thing i will tell you about AF is the sooner you get ablation the less modelling your heart does and the less chance of it being permanent. Since the last episode in october my heart has started doing random ectopics again and feels like randomly it wants to get into af but stops after a couple of random beats. I can only assume the last epsiode of af started doing random electrical connections and modelling again for this to happen so i cant wait to get my next ablation to stop this in its track. Dont worry about your weight so much just find a good consultant and go for it! Dont forget the more you leave it and your heart starts to remodel the more risk of permanent and then the inevitable of your heart becoming weak and enlarged which leads yo heart failure. It is nothing to be scared of and it has come a long way just like a walk in clinic day service ablation has..
Thank you. I think when they go through all the risks, stroke etc it just put me off but I think it is time for me to really consider it as I don’t think I can live like this much longer with the symptoms and then to think that it could get worse is terrifying.
Unfortunately they have to go through the risks - statistics. The real thing is how many of those things have actually happened to that EP or in that hospital. Lets face it if anything should occur you are in the right place to have the right treatment as quickly as possible which will give you the best possible outcome. I was shocked to find out in 2010 when I had my hip replacement op that 1 in 500 of these operations end in death?! However I know lots of people who have had this and we are all still here. Though a friend's 84 year old husband who was desperately ill in hospital with heart problems was given a hip replacement and died 4 days later - though not from the op but from his heart problems. Another friend in hospital with advanced ovarian cancer was also given a hip replacement and shortly after died but from the cancer not the hip replacement and I wonder if these deaths would have found their way onto those statistics? I was under 70 when I had my hip replacement but many are much, much older, unfit and with other comorbidities so statistics give you the figures but not the stories. I was amused by a young American friend who visited last year who said she stuck with one child because she had to have a caesarian with epidural and was told any other children she had would have to be delivered that way (this is actually not true in every case) and she read the risks of epidural and was frightened half to death about having another. I have had 3 epidurals myself for operations with sedation as hate General Anaesthetic - hip and knee replacement and knee manipulation as funnily enough has my sister for bowel operations and investigations - and also a couple of epidurals used for lower back anaesthesia with GA for other things and no problems. wehn you think of the number of epidurals used for childbirth it is realtively safe in the right hands. My worst moment was when I needed a lumbar puncture and the Doc kept dropping things and I heard him tell the nurse he was having a really bad day!!!!!
There are so many things I could pick up on .For background I had 4 years with paroxysmal & 2.5 years persistent.Flown at least 4- 6 times a year but short haul.How do you know you are in AFib for 2 days.How do you measure,how do you feel? What do you do when in AFib?I never had an attack come on when flying or in airport but when persistent I could some pretty bad days & flown.
Re progress - You need to be measuring regularly and noting measurements.Also note exactly how you feel & readings in AFib.
Try going back to Specialist via secretary or department or ask your GP for referral either NHS or Private.Worth a few hundred pounds.
And I would much rather have an ablation than dental work.
And finally alcohol virtually a no no.
I was brought up in the north east with 2 heavy drinking brothers and an Irish father so a heavy drinking from 16.
I feel much better without alcohol but must admit to one glass of wine with a meal once a week on hols.
Firstly, make sure you have adequate travel insurance. It will cover Afib, but may just ask if you have 'arrhythmia'..Secondly check with your cardiologist, but there will probably be NO problem, you are on medication and being treated.
Loads of folks fly with Afib. I am in long standing persistent Afib, so have it 24/7. This year from the UK I flew from Manchester to Venice, and a month or so later to Budapest. Just put flight socks on and keep well hydrated....No issues whatsoever
Hello Amhan, I completed two flights from Sydney to London and vice versa during the last two months. I hadn't flown for several years. I went into AF while I was loading bags for the departure from home. My episodes are rare but they kick in for a while, so I was really distressed at the prospect of travelling so far from home. However, I'm pleased to say that I increased my medication, as instructed by my doctor, and a few hours into the 14 hour leg of the flight, I reverted to NSR. I relaxed and accepted the situation, knowing that anxiety is my worst enemy. I concur with CDreamer about 'calming breathing' and staying well-hydrated. Naturally, I was a bit apprehensive about the recent return journey but happy to report that I was calm, well-rested and accepting of the challenge. No problems. I am pleased to share my story with you by way of reassurance and encourage you to enjoy your holiday.
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