Hi all - just an update on the 1st week post ablation. Got to day 5 with Zero AFib events then a small episode lasting less than 5 mins and back in NSR. Several more episodes since mostly lasting less than 15 mins with a few then coming back again for minutes, going and coming back but going again. I know this is “expected” and can happen but have to say somewhat gutting to feel it again. Still very positive that this means nothing significant - What are your thoughts - Is this common?
Day 8 Post Ablation: Hi all - just an... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Day 8 Post Ablation
Written by
MWIC
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BobDVolunteer
Pleaase read our fact sheet on recvery,. stay well hydrated and above all REST>
It would appear to be common, I had the same disappointment as you at day 6, ok since, day 16 now. Links to recent posts below
healthunlocked.com/afassoci...
healthunlocked.com/afassoci...
Not significant. It happens as the heart is settling down. Dont worry just relax . Its probably just ectopic beats
Thank you for this - very much appreciated - I know to expect this as I’ve read lots and read the fact-sheets, but despite knowing this you can’t help taking a hit when it happens - hoping it stays off and lets me enjoy a bit of Xmas with my kids but fully intend to be careful what I’m doing at this point - thanks again and best of luck to us both ❤️☘️
Little flurries that don't hang around sounds OK to me, from my experience. Scar tissue is only just beginning to form, so it's early days yet. Remember what uncle BobD says - week 1 on the sofa wuth a remote, week 2,ake a cup of tea and get back on the sofa. You're in week 2. No lifting the turkey in and out of the oven for you! But seriously, no bending forward...
I read a large recent study in which the "blanking period" was calculated to be between 4-5 weeks, meaning that during that time any "non-NSR" arrhythmia events could be ignored in the sense that they proved not to be a predictor of anything. Events outside that period began to increase the likelihood of an eventual return of AF.
So - breathe easy, as they say! And best wishes for a happy Christmas and healthy new year!
Steve
Hi Steve. Hope you’re ok. It’s 3 months since my ablation, but still getting some ectopics. 🤞no AFib though. I only got that occasionally anyway. Hoping the ectopics will eventually get less and stop. Still waiting for follow up appointment with Dr Sandiland.I expect the Consultants are busy covering for the junior Drs. Don’t expect Glenfield is any different to any of the other hospitals. Probably won’t be till end Jan/beg Feb now.
Have a good Xmas and hope 2024 is a good year for you and your family.
All well here, thank you (well, I could make a list but I’m coping!!). I’m glad you’re doing “okay”. You have one of the best doctors, of course.
I’ve heard, but don’t know, that the cardiology department is moving to Birmingham with Glenfield taking the LGH kidney unit? Why they won’t leave the NHS alone and just improve what’s there defeats me.
Have a good Christmas and let’s all hope 2024 brings the winds of change to Israel, Ukraine and - after those two big ones are sorted out - perhaps even to our own rather beleaguered country.
Steve
Oh I hope that’s not true. I thought they were expanding Glenfield. I’ve just looked it up. Jeremy Hunt asked for an initial review of plans to relocate the childrens congenital heart and ECMO services to Birmingham childrens hospital. As he is no longer health minister, it’s probably not going ahead. Obviously won’t affect the adult heart unit anyway. Thank goodness. It would be very difficult for a lot of people, if you had to go to Birmingham for appointments and treatment.
Yes it would but that doesn’t seem to worry those in charge of these things. I’d heard even the paediatric unit was going despite the years of protest, but let’s hope I heard wrongly and it was only hearsay.
Steve
Yes hope so, for the sake of all those who use it, now and in the future. Cath
See my post to Steve(Pipman) above. It’s a bit disconcerting when you get these funny heartbeats, when you’ve gone through the ablation. Hopefully things will settle down for you and me. Had no other problems and was more or less back to normal life after 4 weeks. Make sure your family do all your work and take it easy. Hope you have a good Xmas. Hope 2024 and beyond, sees us AFib free.
Just to say that I completely understand how you’re feeling. I had to go back in for another cardioversion eight days after mine.
I think that these problems are maybe a common thing.
I have a new arrhythmia now ( atrial
tachycardia) oh lucky me!!
I’m still really hoping that my ablation has worked though!
Oh dear. Poor you. It never rains but it pours. Atrial tachycardia is (I think) a blanket term for AF, AFl and one or two other arrhythmias.
Steve
Not so Steve. A fast heart rate is neither flutter nor fibrillation. Many people, (myself included before my successful ablation) have AF with a normal heart rate.
How can you have s normal nhr and have af?
It's very simple, the atria fibrillate and the heart rate is 60-100 bpm!
How does one know??
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is the atria can be fibrillating in tachycardia but the AV node is not letting all the extra beats through to the ventricles. So you can have AF with an average HR under 100 (not tachycardia) but the atria is still in tachycardia ( atrial tachycardia) causing the low rate AF. It’s just the terminology interpretation in my opinion.
Tachycardia is a fast heart rate (over 100bpm). If the origin of the tachy is the atria, it's Atrial Tachycardia.
As far as the terminology is concerned, it's no more complicated than that.
Ah - I wonder if you misunderstood me? Yes - I also sometimes have AF with a normal rate (or just slightly higher). I was trying to say that I thought the term "atrial tachycardia" was a blanket term that covers arrhythmias like AF, AFl and others. Is that wrong?
Cheers
Steve
Well, yes. Atrial Tachy is a common condition which may be present without AF or AFL.
Conversely, many AF sufferers do not have Atrial Tachycardia.
They are distinct conditions, so one cannot be used to describe the other.
The atria are always beating rapidly ("tachy-arrhythmic") in AF, AFl and other atrial arrhythmias - I thought. It's the ventricles that determine the pulse rate (which can be anywhere from brady- to tachy- with atrial tachycardias. That was my thinking.
I am likely mixing up with SVT - although the atria are "SV", of course.
Steve
That was my thinking too but I’m accepting it’s only atrial tachycardia now if the 100bpm gets to the average HR pulse as Mugsy15 says. The atria will be fibrillating or fluttering over 100 and the AV node (the gatekeeper) will be blocking enough of the rouge beats to prevent tachycardia is my new understanding.
Yes, that sounds right. The ventricles are generally safely separated from the atrial activity so your health might well be unaffected. There is a comprehensive explanation here:
'Fibrillation' is a disorganised, chaotic rhythm. Not necessarily a fast one.
Atrial 'Flutter', on the other hand, better fits your description - too fast but generally regular, whilst the ventricles beat more slowly, causing imbalance.
I always understood that fibrillation was 3-600 disorganised “beats” whereas flutter is generally 300 organised beats?
Steve
Yet you yourself say you sometimes have fibrillation at normal rate!
Well, I didn’t think I did say that. I thought I said that in arrhythmia that causes atrial tachycardia, the top of the heart, the atrium, is beating abnormally quickly. In atrial flutter this is at a regular ~300bpm and, in atrial fibrillation, an irregular and chaotic ~3-600bpm.
The bottom of the heart, the ventricles, are beating much less quickly. If they weren’t, we would soon die.
Steve
"Yes - I also sometimes have AF with a normal rate (or just slightly higher)."
Your words!
That’s exactly right, but it seems that you might be muddling up up atrial activity with ventricular activity. They are quite separate.
Steve
I do see what you're getting at and agree there is confusion here. My understanding is that in AF the atria 'quiver', causing them to be out of sync with the ventricles. I'm sure we agree so far. Where my understanding differs from yours is that I believe this 'quivering' can occur at a 'normal' rate and the diagnosis of AF is not dependent on a fast rate.
I would certainly concede that most AF is found to be at a fast rate; but it often isn't. No matter how fast or slow your atrial impulses are, AF is still AF.
Yes, I see what you are getting at. Any quoted "rate" of AF, however, is always the ventricular rate, which is usually above 100bpm, and sometimes 150-180+bpm. I have had AF (according to my Apple Watch) at "normal" heart rates of ~80bpm, and I have read of people here having AF at even lower heart rates.
There's no relationship between the AF quivering "rate" and the ventricular rate, to my knowledge. The heartbeat (i.e. the ventricular rate) is under the control of the AV node which stops errant atrial activity from passing through to the ventricles. With atrial flutter, there is a different relationship, it seems, and is more worrying. The rate of transmission is related to the atrial rate in a fixed ratio, usually of 2:1 (atrial rate of 300bpm = ventricular rate of 150bpm). This is what I had, but with bisoprolol and digoxin it dropped stepwise to 100bpm (3:1), then to 60bpm (5:1). I gather that it can transmit directly at 1:1 (i.e. a pulse of 300bpm) and require rapid emergency treatment.
So far as I know, the quivering of the atria is hardly able to be counted (unlike atrial flutter, which is rigidly rhythmical) and has no relation to the ventricular rate. All I have ever read is that it is in the order of 300-600 "bpm", but too irregular and chaotic to be countable or meaningful.
Steve
happened to me too. Now at almost 3 months and no afib. Although sometimes I feel like my heart is trying to go back into afib if that makes any sense. I do seem to get sinus paused once in awhile, which are really not long enough to be actual pauses.
Yes, it's very common -- at least in my case. The week after my first ablation, all was going fine when I then began having little episodes which grew in length and intensity. I attributed it to my heart healing, same as a cut on a finger that at first needs bandaging, then gets inflammed from the trauma, then begins itching, etc. I may be wrong (!!) but that was my thinking. Perhaps it's the same for you.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m seeing now - week of nothing then a quick episode, next day a slightly longer one and yesterday literally on and off all day - hoping it stays off for a couple of days now - today not as bad but still coming on, going and coming on again
Stay rested, do nothing strenuous, don't eat too big a meal that it expands your stomach into your diaphragm (pushing against the heart) -- everything in moderation -- and no Christmas booze! Best wishes that it works itself out.
Hi MWIC, I would advise to take things easy lots of sleep and rest, no large meals , avoid stress and adrenalin rushes and be patient .
I had an ablation on 26th of October and after 4 days of blissful NSR went back into AF 150bpm and feeling dreadful again . I contacted the hospital who did the ablation and they arranged a cardioversion 3 weeks later. It didn't work . I know about the blanking period and to expect 'short episodes of AF' but though 3 weeks was more than just an episode of AF.
A few weeks more of constant AF and I was then prescribed dioxin , 3 days after starting it I had a day in NSR. I keep a daily note of my heart's behaviour and saw I was having alternate days of AF/NSR then more days of NSR and less of AF
On Friday I saw the EP who did the ablation , he is still optimistic it was a successful in reducing my AF burden if not completely. I am to stop the digoxin which he says isn't doing anything. I have to try a daily dose of Flecainide of which I had previously had a bad experience.
So what I am saying is don't be to quick to to judge the success or failure of your ablation , just bide your time.
Very common, you need to wait until the blanking period is over to be sure. That said its worth having. My EP said all ablations are 50/50, mine lasted for just a week before I was back in Afib...All the best
I have had 4 ablations for AT/ SVT and I always had issues at about the 4-8 week period, and even the 3 month period but then things seems to calm down after that, I may be an anomaly but give it 3 months plus before you really decide if it's a failure or not. My Dr said 8 weeks is the determining amount of time but in my case, it was longer. Good luck!
am four weeks post ablation and back in AF. Can I ask how you are now a few months on ? Best wishes
It will be 4 weeks next Tuesday since I had my ablation and was thrilled to be back in sinus after 3 weeks of constant AFib before the procedure.
It only last 6 days before I flipped back into AFib and it got steadily worse until I was getting seriously stressed - which didn’t help. I recently bought a Kardia Mobile and last Weds iy showed my heart rate at 145, a lot higher than it’s been for a long time. It was 135 the following morning so I rang the Arrythmia Nurses At Lancashire Cardiac Centre.
Got lots of reassurance and was told ‘don’t get hung up on the numbers’. The main thing was how I was feeling, no pain,no fainting or dizziness etc. However as I had been on the highest dose of Sotolol before it was stopped and Amiodarone started this could be a factor. The nurse contacted my GP on Friday (I live an hours journey from the Hospital) and arranged for them to prescribe a 5mg dose of Bisoprolol which I started taking yesterday. Within an hour my rate dropped to 95 and I didn’t feel like my heart was trying to jump out of my chest.
Sorry for the long post but the short reply would be, speak to the medical staff if you are worried, remember all the info is that the blanking period is when your heart is healing. Any AFib episodes don’t mean the ablation has failed.
I’m still feeling positive, although with fingers crossed.
Hope you soon get some reassurance
I am four weeks post ablation and back in AF. Can I ask how you are now a few months on ? Best wishes
Honestly the relief is unbelievable - No AF and the realisation that your confidence in yourself has dropped - that’s all changing and as far as how I feel - can’t really describe how fantastic it is to not feel how AFib made me feel for so long (I was on no meds other than Apixaban as I’d had a heart attack 2 1/2 years ago but luckily all good) so really struggled tbh in the 9 months waiting for ablation
Still in AF I'm afraid. My heart rate has settled now though and varies between 60 and 100 thanks to the Amiodarone and Bisoprolol. I had a 3 day Holter Moniter beginning of July and the EP at Blackpool has referred me for cardioversion in the hope that if it works we can stop the Amiodarone.
I'm coping very well despite everything, walks twice a day with fog and no symptoms- or very rarely.
I assume you will be having a post-ablation review at some point and can discuss it with your Cardiologist then.
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