AF back 6 days after Covid vacc

[Belle11]

I'd been in NSR for over 3 1/2 years following a cardioversion after 9 months of persistent AF, but I woke for the loo at 3.30am on Monday and found I was back in AF - which is so far persisting. Sigh!

My first thought about the trigger was that I was dehydrated. We were staying with friends, and I had drunk less than usual. Then I remembered I had had my latest Covid booster 6 days before - it was the latest Pfizer mRNA jab. So I don't know which triggered this recurrence.

So far I've only had a phone consultation about it, and upped my dose of bisoprolol from 6.25mg to 7.5mg as advised by one of the GPs, after checking my BP wasn't too low. Now we're home, I've got an appointment to be seen later today. I wonder what should I be asking for at this stage?

I see there was a review and meta-analysis published in January on the "Risks of Cardiac Arrhythmia Associated with COVID-19 Vaccination" which found it's a rare reaction but more common after the mRNA vaccines than the others. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... If my GP isn't going to submit a yellow card reporting it, I wonder if I should? I understand the risk of AF is higher after Covid than after the vaccine though.

[Desanthony]

Sorry to hear this. It is good that you are getting seen so quickly. How many Cardioversions have you had? As you know Cardioversion is not a cure for Af. Nothing is actually a cure but carried out for quality of life reasons. If Cardioversion works is a sign post that other treatments such as ablation will work and you can have another carfdioversion whilst waiting for an ablation - ablations usually last longer. My longest lasting Cardioversion lasted 15 months. Good Luck and I hope you find you can get this sorted quickly and easily.

[Belle11 in reply to Desanthony]

Thanks for your reply Desanthony. I've just had the one cardioversion, which seems to have lasted pretty well till now. I was never aware of having any AF until I went into rapid AF less than 2 days after knee steroid injections. That lasted for 9 months till I could get a cardioversion.

The unpleasant symptoms I'm getting are being short of breath on exertion, and being very aware of palpitations especially in bed on my left side. But if I lie on my right side, I'm prone to pain across my lower back/buttock. So it would seem worthwhile being referred back to the cardiologist for another cardioversion and to discuss ablation.

[mjames1]

Your last cardioversion lasted quite a long time so I would ask for another at this point. I had three cardioversions that lasted 10 years each before I had an ablation. If your next cardioversion doesn't last very long then daily anti-atlrrythmics or ablation would be a next step option.

Alternatively you could ask for an ablation now.

Jim

[Belle11 in reply to mjames1]

Hi Jim, thanks very much for your thoughts. Wow - 10 years value out of each of your cardioversions is brilliant! I've been to see the GP at lunchtime, who seemed to be suggesting that I could just live with it until I reminded her how long the last cardioversion lasted and asked whether she'd be able to refer me to my cardiologist for another one. I was relieved that she quickly agreed. So when I see the cardiologist I can ask about an ablation too.

[mjames1 in reply to Belle11]

Cardioversions can last a lot longer than you are led to believe on support websites like here. That's because those who have a cardioversion last a very long time tend not to post on support sites very much, since they don't really need much support

That was my case and never visited a site like this until my cardioversions didn't last too long after 30 plus years. I have a relative who was cadioverted only once more than 20 years ago and no afib episodes since. I have a friend who was cardioverted probably over 40 years ago and the last time I spoke to him, still no afib.

I'm glad your GP has referred you for cardioversion right away. No reason to live in afib if you have better alternatives. At some point -- sooner or later -- ablation might make sense, but that's really your call.

Jim

[Belle11 in reply to mjames1]

"No reason to live in afib if you have better alternatives." That was rather my thought too

Did you make any lifestyle changes to help keep your heart in rhythm, or did it just happen? I noticed soon after my cardioversion that some foods seemed to trigger ectopics, so I cut those things out. Don't know if that helped until now ....

[mjames1 in reply to Belle11]

More recently, yes, I made some lifestyle changes in terms of diet, exercise, etc. But back 40 years ago, not really.

Keep in mind afib was not as well known then. There were no internet discussion groups to share experiences and learn, in fact there was no internet! Ablation hadn't even been invented yet! You just listened to what your doctor said because no other avenues of information unless you took the time to visit a medical library.

Also, I was young and simply listened to my cardiologist who told me that there was nothing wrong with my heart and not to worry. So I didn't. I believe they gave me some sort of rate med (digoxin?) for a couple of weeks and that was it. Never gave afib another thought for the next ten years until my next episode.

While I'm an advocate of self research and shared medical decision making, had that first episode happened today, no doubt I would have been put through the afib industry wringer and walked away with who knows how many medications and even pressured into ablation. Instead afib was a non factor in my life for the next 40 years where I went about life not thinking or worrying about it -- until things finally got to the point where I did need the meds and finally ablation.

All said, I'm glad I had my first episode back then and not now, but all cases are different and while I firmly believe that my very slow progression is quite common, in many cases afib does progress much quicker.

Jim

[Belle11 in reply to mjames1]

Thanks for sharing your story Jim. How good that you got so many years free of AF before you had to go for treatments.

I do wonder too about all the drugs. My first attack was after steroid inknee injections, and I found research describing AF in cattle after they had been given steroids. They were given a particular mineral solution and recovered. But I suppose there's no profit in non-patentable mineral solutions for humans when expensive drugs are available! No-one's going to fund the research.

[Belle11 in reply to mjames1]

It's very encouraging to read of your relative and friend who have done so well too.

[Peony4575]

sorry that has happened . My opinion is always yellow card if you have a reaction to a drug. It’s the only way they can build a picture of side effects across a population, and doctors rarely do it

[Belle11 in reply to Peony4575]

Thanks for your reply Peony. I forgot to ask the GP yesterday about doing a yellow card! So I will send one in myself. Otherwise, doctors go on getting the impression that it can't possibly be related.

Perhaps it was something else that triggered this bout, but both my episodes have come after medical treatments - first time was just under 2 days after steroid injections in my knees, and was while I still had facial flushing, a known side effect. That was what alerted me to the act that the steroids into joints were affecting more than just my knees.

[kkatz]

I experienced a switch from paroxysmal to Persistent after the first Astra Zenica but that happened the day after the jab.But saying that my cardioversion only lasted 9 days.When paroxysmal why 2 worse triggers where alcohol & virus infections.Maybe it will settle down on its own.

At least 9 months is a good sign an ablation will work.

Good luck.

[Belle11 in reply to kkatz]

Sorry that you had that reaction kkatz, but good to know your AF sorted itself. Perhaps mine will too - I'm not 9 days on yet! I've never had paroxysmal AF - just 2 episodes of persistent. I had 3 1/2 years + in NSR after the first bout (the 9 months was the time I was in AF) so it certainly did seem worth asking if I could have another cardioversion.

While I haven't had paroxysmal AF, my most obvious triggers for ectopics seem to be processed or aged meats (salt and/or tyramine?) And I probably have to add dehydration to my list of triggers.

[secondtry]

Do please submit a Yellow Card. My brother started AF after his Covid jab.

Talk in Bath I went to: worldcouncilforhealth.org/m...

Spike Protein detox summary: worldcouncilforhealth.org/r...

[Belle11 in reply to secondtry]

Thank you secondtry. I shall print out the detox leaflet ( shame it's so multi-coloured - lots of printer ink! ) I see that the supplement I take contains good doses of quite a few of the nutrients they mention. I'll see what else I might need to add.

[davephx]

Average risk report from COVID less than 1%. However, if your one of the unlucky few it can be a cause.

Seventeen studies (n = 567,033,087 patients) were included. The pooled analysis showed that the incidence of cardiac arrhythmia post-COVID-19 vaccination with Pfizer 0.22% , Moderna 0.76% ,

[Belle11 in reply to davephx]

Thanks Dave. So that's around 1 in 500 for the Pfizer jab. I read somewhere that it's more likely after the 2nd Pfizer than the 1st one, and this was my 2nd Pfizer booster.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to davephx]

This is not true. The pharma companies lied about the number of severe reactions. That’s why they didn’t do a study on the people who received the jabs during the pandemic, because they knew the rate of severe side effects Ava death were very high. Is just like cipro and levaquin. The pharma tell government and doctors that severe side effects are 1 in 33,000 but it’s closer to 1 in 17. (17! , but 17k). In in a Facebook group of 22,000 people severely injured by those floroquinolones, with levaquin and cipro being the most commonly prescribed, and catastrophically damaging.

[davephx in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I rely on science and peer-reviewed studies not often just conspiracy unproven often false information on social media.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to davephx]

That’s your prerogative. I’m very perceptive and mathematically inclined. I figure things out long before the average person, then I take action accordingly. I don’t need corrupt politicians and doctors to tell me that me and 8 other people I know/knew were severely injured or killed by the jabs. Dowd’s compilation and the MIT mathematicians work looks very legit, but maybe a little low in their numbers.

[Vonnegut]

The vaccine has never affected my heart, just my arm which takes some time to recover but when I apparently did catch covid (only knew from positive tests) it did bring on an AF episode, ended a few hours after taking 100mg Flecainide as a PIP thus reaching the maximum daily dose as I take 100mg twice daily now. Perhaps your episode was brought on by the jab, or stress at having it, or just coincidence!

[Belle11 in reply to Vonnegut]

Certainly not stress at having it, as I wasn't expecting any more reaction than for the other jabs. The reaction was 6 days later - in my sleep, while staying with friends and relaxing. Reading some of the research, AF is a relatively rare reaction to the jabs, but the incidence is higher than usual in the week after injection. And it's said to be more common after Covid itself. I know mine may have another cause, but feel it's worth reporting it.

[Vonnegut in reply to Belle11]

So, if it was that much later, why did you think it was a reaction to the jab?

[Belle11 in reply to Vonnegut]

I didn't think it was definitely a reaction - it's one of the possible triggers for it, and it's more common after a second Pfizer jab than after a first one. 6 days is within the week after a Covid jab that has been described in research as the time scale for increased risk of AF starting.

My first AF attack, also persistent, came 2 days after steroid injections, and when I googled, I found research finding that steroids too can be a trigger for AF.

[Vonnegut in reply to Belle11]

That’s interesting. I didn’t know that but it’s another indication of how different we all are! I knew steroids are to be avoided!

[GeorgeGlass]

Cv jab severe reactions are not rare. That’s a complete lie and cover up. At least 28 million people have had severe reactions to the jabs, in America. Approx 300k died from mrna jabs. I had Pfizer too. I know several people who either died or had severe reactions from the jabs. My shoulders are still damaged from the jabs. It was not from the needle. I was infected in the right side but the left shoulder had the most damage. I also had pvc’s documented at the ER which started 2-3 days after the second jab. That’s when me arms went numb and my shoulder pain began. I took taurine twice a day in pill form, which resolved the pvc’s in about four months time. Your Afib is more severe than pvc but look up taurine for pvc and talk to your doc about it.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/167...

[Belle11 in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I'm sorry to hear of all the problems you've had since your jabs George. I've just started to take magnesium taurate again (I was taking magnesium citrate instead to prevent clogging up while taking codeine for post op pain!), and will look up taurine too. Thank you.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Belle11]

You’re welcome Belle. Eat alot of dark leafy greens and vegetables too. They help your body produce nitric oxide which is one of the body’s strongest healing agents, and great for the heart and for oxygenation. I recommend not using mouth wash or fluoride toothpaste, which destroy to good bacteria that helps the body to generate nitric oxide. Also practice breathing exercises several times a day. Long slow breathing to relax the body’s fight or flight parasympathetic nervous system. That reduces dangerous blood clotting, which occurs when you are scared or feel threatened/ in danger.

[davephx in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Where on earth are folks getting this data 300k died from MRNA etc. The link relates to Tuarine etc but has nothing do to with stats you mention. Link please and NOT to a social media account often full of false information.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to davephx]

I don’t have time to go back and detail the hundreds of hits of research I’ve done on the topic. You can research and find it. I did the math and listened to scientists from mit and other doctors who recognized the deaths and severe permanent side effects. The mathematical statisticians expropriated data from the VAERS, which included my individual severe reactions report. The system and doctors make it very difficult to complete a report. They tried several times to reject it and asked for more information. I finally got it through and approved. There are also places where you can find the batch numbers for Pfizer vaccines, which show the percentage of severe side effects per batch the two batches that I received were both in the top 11% worst/most damaging batches, causing severe side effects I will attach one story report just to give you an idea if you want to track down that other data that I told you you can look it up. I found it all on the Internet from reputable sources. I don’t have time to prove everybody that I’m telling him is accurate, so basically, I’m doing the same thing at the CDC, the FDA and all the media outlets do because I don’t have to prove anything that they report either clarkcountytoday.com/news/r...

[Belle11 in reply to GeorgeGlass]

That's an interesting article George. Here's a different perspective. I looked up the author of the study it mentions, and he's talking here about all excess deaths, not just vaccine related deaths ( londonreal.tv/ed-dowd-exces... ). Very many of these will have been caused directly or indirectly by Covid itself.

Covid is being found to be primarily a disease of the blood vessels, not just a respiratory illness, and can affect just about every organ of the body, even if the initial infection seems mild, and it can cause seemingly unrelated illnesses and death many months later. bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...

There's an increase in heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, brain diseases in the year following Covid, and this was being observed before the introduction of vaccines. And of course, as society opened up with the arrival of vaccines, and we started to mix more, from 2021 onwards, Covid also started to spread much more widely.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Belle11]

The vaccine injuries and deaths were extrapolated after subtracting Covid deaths and other diseases. The amounts I mentioned were unaccounted for. Also, notice how many people who keep getting the shots 4-7 times now, say that they have already had Covid a few times. The vaccine sometimes has an anti inflammatory effect. That affect can be achieved in many other ways, instead of getting a much higher chance of severe side effects with the experimental mrna jabs.

[Dollcollector]

The covid jab has triggered afib for me twice. I think any shock to the body can trigger an episode. I f l drink a glass of icy cold water it can do it. There are reports of the swimming in very cold water can trigger an episode too. The heart doesn't like shocks. Maybe that's how the electric shock treatment as in a cardioversion works as it can reverse it too.

[Belle11 in reply to Dollcollector]

That sounds a reasonable idea Dollcollector. The drinking cold water trigger seems to be associated with vagal AF - where something makes the vagus nerve more active, as this cardiologist says. richardbogle.com/blog/vagal...

It seems that vagal AF is usually paroxysmal, whereas both my episodes have been persistent - the first for 9 months till I had a cardioversion.

[Dollcollector]

Thank you Belle for the link, very interesting. All this time l thought l was protecting my heart my heart by taking a beta blocker, although l take the minimum amount that l can. I don't like drugs at all.

[Belle11 in reply to Dollcollector]

I gather not many cardiologists are aware of difference with vagal AF. I wondered if mine was vagal, as it started at night, but it's persistent rather than paroxysmal.

[Dollcollector]

Some doctors don't even believe there is such a thing as vagal afib and the ones that do , don't bother to investigate which type you have. The pills are just dished out as standard.

[Belle11 in reply to Dollcollector]

I love the NHS, but the in-service continuing education of doctors does seem to need big changes. Most of it is funded by pharmaceutical companies, and it's often said that these corporations want customers, not cures

[Dollcollector]

Yes, we have a disease service not a health service. Symptoms are treated without bothering to find the cause of the disease. We need more preventative information on disease. Some of course cannot be prevented but there is a lot that can with changes of lifestyle. We often get this information too late from our own research or mistakes are made by g.p.s who don't investigate the causes of someones illness.