I was diagnosed with Paroxysmal Afib in September 2019, ( I wasn’t aware I had it as it the symptoms were vey mild) the Consultant recommended Bisoprolol but also put me on the waiting list for an Ablation, the Bisoprolol didn’t agree with me as I am a keen mountain biker and it was like riding with a governor on my heart, I stopped the Bisoprolol and had an Ablation in July 2020 it seemed successful but I had an episode in November but by June 21 I was getting one every couple of weeks sometimes a month, I had another Ablation in March 22 which didn’t have any effect and carried on getting the episodes with the same frequency, I was put on the list for another Ablation which I had in January 23, I was ok for about a month but they started again with the same frequency, I now have one about every 2 weeks sometimes a month, I can’t think of any triggers, I stopped all alcohol in March 20 after reading it could cause an episode, I am due a telephone call on the 6th October to discuss, I have every episode stored on a Kardia app and recently emailed some of the latest sample ones in preparation for the call, I don’t know if they will offer me another one but I am inclined to refuse it as they are not without risk and not a pleasant thing to have done.
My question is, am I just a bit unlucky or is my my heart making new connections.
I am 70 and possibly about 2 stone overweight ( I seem to have replaced the alcohol with food!) the symptoms are still very mild and last between 2 and 6 hours on average.
I would like to hear people’s thoughts particularly if you have been in the same situation.
Thanks.
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Judepup
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Then I wouldn’t bother with another ablation because the biking is probably what caused the AF in the first place, and caused the ablations to fail as well.
Woah there, Buffafly. Cycling does not cause Afib. There is plenty of evidence that long term endurance exercise over many years can cause Afib but getting on your bike for a ride around the countryside a couple of days a week is going to do you so much good, mentally and physically.
But exercise it is a trigger for AF unfortunately. Have you read the Haywire Heart? Subtitle : how too much exercise can kill you. Written by a cardiologist cyclist who has AF so well worth a read.
I had 2 ablations - AF returned. I now have a Pacemaker- that worked for me. I couldn’t tolerate Bisoprolol at all. In your position, If you can cope with the AF I would live with - until I couldn’t - which is what happened with me.
Try weight loss and decreasing your exercise or at least easing off and see if that helps?
Hello Jude, even though your symptoms are relatively mild, it must be pretty clear disappointing for you. You probably know that if your first one was a Cryoablation, it’s not all that unusual to have a second RF ablation to treat any areas of tissue missed by the balloon and many here have had a third but still get AF, often much milder but sometimes permanent. Being overweight doesn’t help but methinks you already know that cos you mentioned it first😉.
The other thing worth checking is your thyroid function because both under and over active particularly can cause AF as I know! I would take the call with an open mind, if you are being treated on the NHS they are not generally offered unless they are reasonably confident that the patient will benefit. It’s true, there are risks of course, but unlike some patients, medics tend to consider them as minor……that said, of course it’s not them who are taking the risk!
Personally, if offered I would go on the list for a fourth in the knowledge that waiting times are close on a year so there is plenty of time to reconsider you position nearer the time. It will be interesting to hear what others say, things have improved but there were concerns about fibrosis or thickening of the tissue due to excessive burning but new and improved techniques make this less likely but still worth mentioning on the 6th. Good luck, please let us know how you get on……just seen Buff’s comments which are significant particularly if you are verging on extreme exercise.
I don’t think it is the Mountain biking as it is part of a group of retired guys of varying age and fitness, the rides are not flat out blasts and include plenty of stops to catch your breath and a stop for coffee and cake halfway, so not extreme endurance by any means.
I have read parts of the haywire heart and seem to remember it mentions people like Triathletes and long distance runners etc which is not me😂 the BHF also recommends cycling for heart health.
The 2nd and 3rd ablations didn’t work at all, and I didn’t start riding for at least 3 months and then very gently so I don’t think cycling affected the result, my wife thinks they were practising on me and says I should insist on someone very senior to do the next one if I have it.
They checked my Thyroid in January and it was all ok.
Flapjack, I have read that excess weight around the middle almost certainly means there is fat around the heart which can cause problems, so I think I will say yes if they offer me another and try and loose weight before the procedure and see if that helps, it’s shame to have to give up alcohol as well as full fat food!
According to studies, losing weight arguably is the single most important thing anyone with a high bmi can do to reduce or eliminate afib. Personally, I'd lose those two stones before even thinking of another ablation because the extra weight might again reduce the odds of it being successful.
I've had my first ablation 3 months ago and I'm getting short episodes of Afib once or twice a week now, which I consider to be a success. Not a total success but a massive improvement on where I was before, where I was in and out all the time and on increasing doses of Flecainide. I can get out on my bike for a couple of hours now and be fairly confident that my ride will not be ruined by an episode half way round. I speak to my Afib nurse today and if I was offered a top up, I think I would take it.
I reserve my cycling to indoor Nordic Track so I can go around the world and save on airfares! I try and keep my HR to 140 which is about 85% of my recommended max. So far so good, last AF was in December. I read some info that as we age that our body produces less CoQ10 so I went and got checked in January when I was getting a few ectopics. Both CoQ10 and Magnesium were low. I’ve been taking them and recently got checked the CoQ10 is at the lower end of normal and magnesium has got into mid range. Is this a coincidence? maybe but I would suggest everyone get checked though it does cost extra in Australia. I also found that staying hydrated made a big difference to ectopic which I know seldom get
Like yourself I'm 70 and keep myself fit with running cycling and hill walking but my afib bouts are a lot more severe and were lasting up to 12 days. I found that hard exercise like hard 50 mile ride or 5k run actually stopped the afib but at first the afib was bad enough to stop me exercising. I'm now in day 68 of my latest episode but have been unable to exercise because of knee injury. I think I would keep doing what your doing. I stopped alcohol for 18 months during COVID and if anything my afib was worse so I am now back on the ale in moderation. Good luck anyway.
Hi Jude, I second Gabriel’s post. My AF is persistent and I’m having my first ablation this week. My EP thinks I’ll probably need a second but if that doesn’t work he’s recommended me to Bart’s for a mini maze. If any of this keeps me off my (electric) bike then none of it has been worth it! Have you heard of kits to convert bikes to electric? Just for those big hills! I think it’s MummyLov you need to look up here on AFib forum to learn about mini maze. She had persistent like me and sounds really fit now! Good luck.
Hi. Having looked into which foods can trigger an AF episode, I found foods containing high amounts of tyramine are to be avoided. So foods such as cured meats like salami, pepperoni, air dried hams like palma ham. All aged and strong cheeses, the worst for me being Stilton and blue cheeses. Beer and wine also.
I’m going through a bad patch at the moment with the least little thing setting off an episode. A month ago I changed from warfarin to edoxaban and ever since have had multiple episodes lasting from 24 hours minimum to 4 days. Whereas I used to have one or two per month, lasting 24 hours each. Today I am going to ask my GP to change me back to warfarin in the hopes it reverts back to how it was.
So if I were you I would look into what foods you are eating to make sure your not consuming anything high in tyramine content.
I'm in my 80s with same diagnosis I too ditched the bisoprodol caused breathlesness very rarely have episodes unless stressed I drink coconut water for replacing electrolytes and keep well hydrated. Not been offered any ablations but then I live in southern Spain their health system not the same as NHS !
Hi, I’m a 76 year old with PAF diagnosed three years ago. Like you I keep fit and having been a runner Al my life I still run 5 K three times a week with the odd 10 K. My Af episodes come about the same frequency as yours. I too keep detailed records and present them at my cardiologist appointments. Still waiting for ablation after three years. Thyroid function normal and elimination of usual triggers make no difference. Not convinced exercise is a trigger. Yes keep the HR down. Four acquaintances have undergone ablation with no success. Evidence on these threads seems to support the poor results to this procedure.
Are you drinking decaff tea and coffee and avoiding atrificial sweetners - caffeine and artificial sweetners are also known as triggers. Try to lose that weight too and eat smaller meals if you find you have filled up on food instead of the alcohol.
Hi there, I was diagnosed with AF in March2021 at the age of 42. Mine was all the time but I didn’t notice putting my symptoms down to busy working mum trying to keep on top of everything and feeling panicky about it. I had ablation no 4 in Feb of this year and although my AF is now paroxysmal now, I still have it. I’m due to see cardiologist n a few weeks as I was on Amiodarone and the withdrawal from it seems to have given me Atrial Flutter too. I don’t know what lies ahead but it’s incredibly frustrating feeling like my life is on hold. I used to run 5 times a week but the beta blockers have zapped my energy and now I’ve gained weight which I can’t seem to shift. Bisoprolol didn’t agree with me either and although switching to a different beta blocker felt good initially, I’m still very fatigued.
No advice here but just letting you know I’m in the same boat
Hello, I feel for you. We have such expectation. I'm waiting for 3rd Ablation & a little overweight. 1st one lasted 3yrs, second 12 days, although keep going back to NSR and just when your feeling confident it's back all over the place. Hope things get better for you.
Feel for you I’m 70 and also around 2 stone over weight. I’m pretty active still .. was diagnosed with PAF 5 years ago now. Have been on calcium channel blockers & anticoagulants ever since. The electro physiologist I saw back in the day felt it wasn’t worth going through an ablation as my symptoms were and still are relatively mild. Stopped drinking for 3 months, didn’t make the slightest difference nor did decaff coffee.
Don't give up mate, but lose the excess weight, it will do a world of good and make you more positive. I am waiting for my 4th one, exercise for me is a walk 30 min or 3 hrs and I never get AFIB when walking. It is hard to lose the weight I know and then keeping it off is even harder, I changed from eating food I loved to eating food I liked to help me lose the weight.
Hi, I'd always exercised and first noticed AF in gym when my pulse was 170. So when I was diagnosed I asked consultant would exercising help as you hear constantly that exercise is good for heart. Consultant said vigorous exercise wouldn't help and could make it worse.
I was diagnosed December Ablation #1 February 2018 ablation #2 October 2019 atypical flutter, and ablation #3 August, 2022. Take Propafenone and Diltiazem. Afib returned after very stressful time from a different medical problem. I am waiting for ablation#4. Tikosyn was recommended but I declined.
I'm afraid what might be happening is you are getting bad ablations. This procedure is a tricky one which requires a doctor who has MUCH experience and success doing it. Pretty much ANY doctor can handle an appendectomy, but NOT anyone can do an ablation for afib... I surely would NOT go back to this same facility/doctor, pretty obvious on that, and you need to seek out a new electrophysiologist, yes, (NOT just a cardiologist, but both certs)... and start over. You can only get so many ablations... you need to move forward carefully at this point.
Also... were you ever offered medications for afib? And I don't mean Bisoprolol, this is just a beta blocker... I mean something like Flecainide or Multaq or others? Hopefully your new electrophysiologist can help you decide if any of these are an option also...
Same boat but with FIVE ablations and each failed after anywhere from years to weeks. Been on the entire pharmacopoeia and now on sotalol which seems to be working but it’s early days. Also 70, highly active on the farm, normal BMI.
Afib is a strange beast. I keep reminding myself that it’s ‘just’ a QoL issue so remember to BREATHE deeply. If (When) sotalol fails then we’ll pursue pace and ablate.
I was offered one as well … maybe 6 years ago … l said absolutely NO … they continued offering … NO NO NO! Stop asking me! I rarely have episodes … l am on Sotalol and lots of vitamins … l don’t want cutting in or around my precious heart. Sorry that you said yes … but it is a very personal decision. I wish you the best. In your shoes, a resounding NO WAY! If you decide not to have another, ask your doc about Sotalol … lowest dose mornings and nights … they will watch your qt interval (time between heart beats) … mine is always normal … l also take another very mild statin medicine … l cannot recall the name of it … rovanstatin or something like that. Best, Jan
Yes … l take Eliquis 5mg (l think) twice per day … my cardiologist INSISTED after much turmoil for years! I think that it is Avorastatin … MWF Only … otherwise they give me muscle pain … lowest dose. 😊
It means Monday, Wednesday and Friday only. I am taking the Rovanstatin, not the other one. I checked this evening. Thanks for the input. Poor lady. Best, Jan.
Dear friend 83 is losing her daughter aged 44. She has a brain tumour inoperable. Had radiation and chemo, then 3 x chemo. No stopping. Now she is resting. Head twice the size.
But all this talk about immuno treatment - using ones own immunity system to alert it of a foreign object and to stop it growing and then destroy it.
I'm carefully watching how the clinic guineas are doing.
We all can help with research in our decisions especially they are different from the automatic or norm.
Thanks again for the helpful reply’s, as I’m in the UK the procedures are carried out on the NHS so I don’t get to choose who does it but the 2nd and 3rd failed from day one so possibly the person doing it wasn’t skilled enough.
The symptoms are very mild and more of a nuisance than anything else and I don’t want to be on medication if I can help it.
Regarding exercise and diet there have been periods when I haven’t been on my bike for 2 weeks and I have had more episodes than normal, I drink decaf at home and don’t really eat much cheese or cooked meats and no sugar or sweetness.
I think I will go for the weight loss and be put on a waiting list if that’s what they suggest and see how I am when the time comes.
At first I was told that I couldn't havean ablation because of being overweight.
Then it was because of the scan of heart. a back chamber enlarged.
I changed to A2 milk, ate less - smaller plate and by last November lost 3kg. Ny H/R fell again on Diltiazem to 60s from 88-93 Controlled then by introduction to CCB.
Weight loss assisted me Judepup.
Ablation scars your heart. No backtracking.
Have a friend who had his first ablation, meds galore. The surgeon found 2 rogue electrical responses. Found them, he is free of them off meds. A great story.
This is just my opinion, but my EP told me you only have to be off of millimeter to have an unsuccessful ablation. Although some people can be lucky, and one will do it for them majority of us it is simply a Band-Aid and sooner or later it won’t work anymore or another spot acts up. We already know there is no cure so that is how I viewed ablation to begin with just like medication in which your body eventually gets used to it and it is no longer as effective. It’s one of the lousy parts of a fib, etc.. my EP was not willing to do another ablation because of the fact of difficulty mapping plus. The only other ablation was my AV node with my pacemaker. He feels that the problems with one outweigh any help one might do. I had too much scarring already from the other three. It’s not so much that it failed sometimes is that there is a new spot in your electrical system. That is now acting up. I know it’s frustrating. Just know it’s not unusual as many people on here will tell you. My first lasted six months when I needed a second it lasted a year. I had a very aggressive, one a year and a half ago that unfortunately made me much worse with everything and from what I can gather gave me the most scarring. You have to think about what they must do to your heart each time they do one it’s pretty traumatic, which is why I don’t understand when some people claim they have had dozens best of luck just remember every day. They are working on things to get us better 💪
Thank you for your kind reply, your thoughts are very similar to mine, my wife thinks I would be mad to go through it again, one of the questions I will ask is whether my body make up is the type that will keep producing the spots, if it is it makes no sense to keep having ablations and scarring the heart, I know I am less fit since I had the first one which might be because I am 3 years older but could be due the all the scarring.
It is not being a type that keeps producing these spots. I don’t think I think it is a fib itself. There is no cure, and we know it only gets worse. I am very surprised as I mentioned previously that they did not consider something like a mini for you because from what I’ve read on here, it seems to get wider areas of a fib problems. For me, I think a fib was the tip of the iceberg. Thankfully, because of it, it exposed other problems, so I was able to be treated. I think of my heart wiring system like old wiring in a house or Christmas tree lights. You know how you have a bulb blow out and you can fix it but one night you’re looking at the tree and there are three lights out on the opposite end of the wiring. After a while you realize this is just going to continue so you need a different fix. For me, that was getting my pacemaker, and straightening everything out. With the pacemaker in charge, it doesn’t matter about all those little shorts in the system, with the AV node ablated afib can make all the fuss it wants but it’s not hurting me anymore. Yes as I discovered you do feel the thumps and palpitations sometimes and it still isn’t fun. I do wish that it would not act up when I have ice cream. I find that very annoying lol.
if I were you, I would be concerned the way that he says you have so much work to do in there. It’s just my opinion but that doesn’t sound right. Best of luck. Let us know how you are doing OK
Hi, I have had Afib diagnosed from a LINQ ECG implant . I am unaware of the events but very occasionally I do have dizzy symptoms that might be Afib related or blood pressure related. Having had a paroxysmal stroke the explanation might have been an Afib event. Have you been prescribed an anticoagulant? My general heart rate is bradycardia (slow) but in sinus rhythm with some missing and some ectopic beats. So the consultant considered bisoprolol but then said do with out and we'll see how it goes. I don't worry about the Afib. In fact I'm quite glad it has been observed because it might be related to the stroke, epidemiology studies point to the relationship. So I'm glad I'm on an anticoagulant (EDOXABAN).Everything else is for now normal for my age, 71. So with the warning I am now on a mission to actively improve my own health in the best way I can starting with my cardiovascular health. From trundling along as a retired 70 year old I am now much fitter. I had an unrelated gallbladder removal, again no symptoms but picked up on routine bloods and a scan. The operation went a bit wrong and the consultant praised my good health post op for making recovery much easier.
I have to say I am a bit of a fan of KITA therapy now. In spite of an odd 18 months I am now in the best place probably since my 40's.
I hope you can get into a balanced lifestyle where you can focus on the things that matter.
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