had Flutter Cardioversion…stressing

[OzJames]

had CV 2 days ago then ate dinner last night too quickly, had a sense of panic Some pounding in my chest, breathing hard, thought I’d reverted back and couldn’t relax for 2 hours. My Apple Watch said sinus. Prior to CV apple watch said sinus when I was confirmed in Atrial Flutter at hospital prior to CV. My pulse is even feels normal just a bit quicker abt 85 could be the stress. How do I know if the Atrial Flutter is back. He took me off Flecainide but still on Metropolol and Apixiban. It’s just Sunday morning now pulse still even but I’m very anxious. Not sure what ectopics or flutter supposed to feel like

[BobD Volunteer]

Relax breath deeply and slowly and stop looking at machines. Your rate is quite low and in the normal range of 60 to 100 so I guess you are winding yourself up worrying. Don't.

[OzJames in reply to BobD]

thanks Bob I took your advice and then went for a brisk walk in the fresh air, HR was normal for the walk

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to OzJames]

If you have an Amazon account and an iPhone or other compatible phone you could order a Kardia device which would detect flutter. I might be reassuring to have the device to check if you have any suspicions.

[OzJames in reply to Samazeuilh2]

thanks Kardia might be better as reassurance than the Apple Watch which identified my first flutter before cardioversion last week as Sinus rhythm!

[ozziebob in reply to OzJames]

And please try to avoid giving more money to Amazon. AliveCor will have their own website for Kardia 6L purchases in Australia. Just my opinion.

[OzJames in reply to ozziebob]

yeh I know what you mean, they seem to want to own everything!

[RussJun55 in reply to Samazeuilh2]

Just to add, purchasing a Kardia device can allow someone who is trained to interpret strips to evaluate for Atrial Flutter, but I'm pretty sure that that is not one of the conditions that Kardia will report.

[OzJames in reply to RussJun55]

thanks Russ I will ask the distributor here in Australia whether it can confirm AFlutter,

[DawnTX in reply to OzJames]

One thing to note which I did not know until meeting with my new EP last week. Flutter is different than atypical flutter. I did not know they were two types. I don’t know if atypical even shows up on otc devices. It is difficult to map even with the expensive hospital machines. I have my oximeter for my heart rate. I prefer her not to go crazy with other things. I learned long ago as a type two diabetic the more we have to check on ourselves the more obsessed we can become. My doctor never had me even doing my numbers because they normally are quite low and they can fluctuate so easy. Same with heart rate when you think about it. I really would not like to be sitting in a chair all day testing myself lol like a crazy person. I can feel when my heart is acting up right now it is constant. I can double check to see that I am in tachycardia. Unless it really gets to the point where it’s got me upset I only do it maybe three times a day.

[Zeinmassri in reply to Samazeuilh2]

my Kardia does not detect flutter

[Samazeuilh2 in reply to Zeinmassri]

It will *show* flutter if you have it but you would need to know how to identify it. In other words it won’t actually produce a message saying “this is atrial flutter ”.

[Zeinmassri in reply to Samazeuilh2]

I know it’s a 100 percent flutter but the app reads it as afib

[OzJames in reply to Zeinmassri]

thanks, my watch shows sinus when ECG is done during Flutter, I will show the doctor the print out to see if it looks like sinus or AFlutter

[OzJames in reply to Samazeuilh2]

interesting I think the Apple Watch misses the Alert for Flutter but if you do an ECG it will say Sinus… though now that you’ve mentioned this I will show the Cardiologist the print out and see if the sinus reading actually shows AFlutter. I can’t tell the difference

[Zeinmassri in reply to OzJames]

aflutter it almost feels like tachycardia maybe that’s why it shows as sinus

[Singwell]

Sounds more like a digestive event since you ate quickly. I have a very dodgy digestion and often feel a little pulsing right in the middle my chest - right where the diaphragm sits - it's like a little flutter. Am always in Sinus when I check and just sit down quietly for a bit while the stomach does its thing. Stomach, diaphragm and heart are all squished up quite close together.

[OzJames in reply to Singwell]

thanks Singwell that makes sense, I’m sure my thoughts took over and body reacted with it

[DawnTX in reply to OzJames]

before I realized what was going on I found that if we went out to dinner and I ate too much I would be in a fib by the time I headed to the car. Now I deliberately put half aside. Again it makes sense the way that we are all squished up lol

[OzJames in reply to DawnTX]

yes I know what you mean I’m watching how quickly I eat now, let’s hope we all have a good Christmas!

[Ppiman]

It is the catastrophised anxious response to the heart being "wrong" that brings such feelings in my experience, rather than any physically catastrophic change of consequence. The oesophagus can press tightly against the left atrium and the act of swallowing, or especially gulping, can cause an oesophageal spasm that can bring on an ectopic beat.

Steve

[OzJames in reply to Ppiman]

thanks Steve I wasn’t sure what the difference between ectopics compared to atrial flutter in terms of what they feel like….. so I got very anxious. My mind took me to the extreme. I went for a brisk fresh air walk and my HR was in a good range, 85-95 during the walk.

[Ppiman in reply to OzJames]

I have read that it's not possible to feel atrial pulsation, whether fibrillation or flutter, only the valves shutting, especially the effects of tachycardia or after an ectopic beat with its prolonged pause that causes excessive ventricular filling. The other feelings we get are the result of poorer oxygenation as the ventricles reduce the outflow - chest discomfort, breathlessness etc. and, of course, massive anxiety!

Steve

[OzJames in reply to Ppiman]

cheers mate I think after 29 years I was lucky with PAF about every 5 years that lasted only days before exercise resolved it. Now the playing field has changed and everything is rushing around in my head. Yours and others sound advice is helping rationalise where I’m at today.and I will come to terms with it

[Ppiman in reply to OzJames]

Oh yes, you will. What about emigrating to NZ? That will sort you out good and proper! (Joke!!).

Steve

[OzJames in reply to Ppiman]

well at least I’d have a successful Rugby team if I lived in NZ!

[DawnTX in reply to Ppiman]

I very much argue that point. I had had a successful cardioversion and while sitting on the couch I actually commented to my cousin something was wrong. I felt when my heart flipped over to flutter I have atypical flutter. I took my heart rate and it was already in the 120s when it had actually been in the 70s earlier in the day the best I had since the cardioversion. Right now it is constant and has been for the past couple of weeks. For the most part I don’t pay attention to how it feels except for the occasional thump. A flutter to me feels different it’s definitely irregular and not as bad as afib itself. I still have the breathlessness and problems walking again because of circulation but it is not as painful or nauseating. I don’t have to think about it I know what it is when I feel it.

[Ppiman in reply to DawnTX]

You might well be right that you are feeling the heart itself, Dawn. It's only what I'd read, that the heart has no sensory nerves of the kind needed to feel its pumping action, that and from my own experience. When I had fast AFl and an attack of fast AF, and now with the other bits and pieces I have (occasional AF, mild tachycardia, ectopics...), I can only ever feel the thumps of the valves closing (i.e. my pulse) and nothing else (apart from left chest and shoulder ache).

Steve

[DawnTX in reply to Ppiman]

hugs now you explained the thumps. Ty

[dogsneedwalking]

Hello there, I had cardioversion over a year ago and am currently taking Sotalol 40mg x 2 daily. I still have the 'surges, flutters and missed beats' but it's something I have got used to [my resting hr is between 43 and 45 most days]. I even managed to get out cycling this Summer. I basically just decided that I wouldn't let it get me down and some days I was even worried about elevating my heart rates with short walks. It can still be uncomfortable and worrying as it always returns a day or so after my cycle rides so I have had to restrict them to every 2 days. I have decided not to purchase any sort of device that records the episodes/heart rate as I would end up sitting at home all day worrying if it's going to kick off or not. I do however, have a blood pressure machine which the Nurse advised me to get but I only use it if I feel unwell as my BP tends to fluctuate to even although I'm not being active. Try not to worry so much is the first thing and don't let it become all consuming in your daily life. Take care.

[OzJames in reply to dogsneedwalking]

thanks for sharing your experience, those thoughts and feeling are true. It’s difficult with the Apple Watch as it alerts you if it suspects AF…. so every time it sends a notification about a text or something I think it’s the AF alert coming. I’ll get used to dealing with it, appreciate your response

[Speed in reply to dogsneedwalking]

Please be aware that automatic BP machines will not give true readings during AF / AFlutter. BP should be messured the old manual way (stethoscope etc.) to give a true reading.

Automatic m/ch readings can therefore be misleading.

[dogsneedwalking in reply to Speed]

Hello and thanks for your advice. I took my BP machine along to one of my appointments earlier in the year so we [Doctor and I] could do a 'comparison' reading and my one was almost the same as the Doctors one. I really just keep it for when I feel unwell - I suppose it sort of reassures me when the flutters. etc start to rear their heads. It also has a Pulse reading to as I do get a bit worried about how low my resting heart rate is as it's usually between 43/45 but can drop to 41 bpm and that's when I really do feel unwell. This is a result of the medication they say but it's not nice.

[Speed in reply to dogsneedwalking]

Did you compare monitors whilst you were symptomatic as that is when they are liable to give false readings? When you are asymptomatic, then they should be similar?

Page down in the attached for relevant advice from NICE

bihsoc.org/resources/bp-mea...

[dogsneedwalking in reply to Speed]

Thank you for the link.

[DawnTX]

James I was surprised with my recent visit with a new EP. Some thing he just mentioned to me regarding my CV on Tuesday followed by a new medication in the hospital. He mentioned blanking period. Now I have never heard about it until I was on this site and everyone here taught me about that period of time Where when you are healing that you still feel things. I thought it was only following a big procedure like an ablation. He told me he will not see me for a month after I leave the hospital because of the blanking period. Now I won’t freak out if I do feel a flutter off and on. He said it is your heart resetting. I had a cardioversion in October and I was constantly worried about it feeling because I was feeling so good. I wonder if we feel it more when we are worried about it. Take a deep breath if you are still an NSR that’s a wonderful thing. I am praying the one I get Tuesday holds longer because I felt so good. They are putting me on a stronger med to keep me in rhythm. Multaq and Metropolol no longer do it for me. Enjoy your new happy heart we don’t know how long we have it anymore than we know how long we are on this earth so we just have to be excited about it and happy. If your a fib flutter really returns trust me you will know it. I felt when it suddenly happened while sitting on the couch with my cousin. It sounds like you’ve got this so far so relax and have a merry Christmas and get ready for a wonderful new year.

my cousin had a hip replaced a few weeks ago and complains when he has aches. Good grief he was back to work in a week. I told him thank about the trauma we have done to our bodies. Our body has a right to complain once in a while. Hugs 🙏🏻 PS Watch your heart rate when you can but don’t obsess. I have an oximeter I shot from 70 to over a 100 When you say that talk to your doctor but even then think about what you had just been doing before you panic

[OzJames in reply to DawnTX]

thanks Dawn interesting about the blanking period. I’ll taking things a bit easier on my walks and activities till I see my doctor again mid January. Appreciate your kind thoughts and all the best with your journey and have a lovely Christmas too

[DawnTX in reply to OzJames]

Reading about the blanking period on here helped me relax and it made sense. Right now my cousin keeps complaining of hurting after working all day and on his feet a lot. He just had his hip replaced two weeks ago today and went back to work after a week. Ummm it seems to me aching is kind of expected. I cannot believe the difference in him just this past week with his mobility. No cane no walker. I reminded him just like I remind myself that surgery is traumatic whether it is hip or heart. I have a friend who had his finger operated on early in the week. For the past two days he is in so much pain he can’t even talk. I told him there are a lot of nerves in the tip of the finger. He didn’t have this much pain when he cut it on metal roofing and waited two weeks. He had the local vet stitch him up. It just shows no matter what part of the body we have to give it a chance to heal

I knew it could take up to a year for me to see results but I did not listen until I read from everyone here. I think it’s better to hear from the peers at times because we are living it

[OzJames in reply to DawnTX]

Yes Dawn so true, knowing other’s experience can help create a better journey for us. Sometimes it’s all a rush in our heads and we only absorb some of the information. Learning to relax as much as possible is one of the first steps we must learn.

[marcyh]

As to what flutter and ectopics feel like, here is how I keep them straight using E and F:

Ectopics = Extra beats.

Flutter = Fast and even.

Someone please correct me if this is wrong. I know this is an oversimplification.

[OzJames in reply to marcyh]

thanks for that, I think that sounds right, the Cardiologist did say that on ECG the Apple may confuse it to be sinus instead of Flutter as spaces are even, I wasn’t sure what he meant. My pulse was fairly even when I was told it was AFlutter, difference between that and Sinus was when I walked the HR went from feeling normal to 125bpm within 100metres, though I’d been on Metopropol for a couple of days. Now that I’m converted back (but still on Metopropol) my HR when walking is in the 80-90’s

[Speed in reply to marcyh]

I was unaware for many months I had A Flutter. To me, it was misinterpreted as anxiety as it felt very much like anxiety and “butterflies in the stomach” but for longer periods. It really does feel like the heart is fluttering. Also, my HR would be either around 80 or 120 (instead of low 50s) as it was with “variable block” as the number of impulses passing to the Ventricle would vary.

[marcyh]

For anyone who wants a quick check for flutters , ectopics and HR, an oximeter is good to have on hand. About $30. I've used mine often as a sort of first responder to see what's going on because it also shows the heart pattern. If it's fast and even, likely aflutter. If there are extra beats, likely ectopics. If fast and erratic, likely AF.

[OzJames in reply to marcyh]

hi and thanks for suggestion, I thought an Oximeter was for measuring oxygen levels in the blood?

[marcyh in reply to OzJames]

It does that, but it has other features as well.

[OzJames in reply to marcyh]

I’ve looked them up, is there a particular brand I should look at? The ones I’ve checked out do Oxygen and pulse rate only

[marcyh in reply to OzJames]

Mine is ChoiceMMed. The heart rate and pattern is shown once you have it on your finger. Mine has different ways of showing it - waves or bars. Nothing official, but it gives a general idea. You could ask a pharmacist about it.

[OzJames in reply to marcyh]

thanks appreciate the info and will see my pharmacist