AF and Metformin

[Afib_girl]

My dr just put me on Metformin for prediabetes (only matter of time before I get diabetes) do you think there is any correlation between AF treatments not working and almost being diabetic. I wasn’t treated for diabetes before last week.

[BobD Volunteer]

All I will say is that three years ago I was pronounced prediabetic. I lost a stone in weight, changed my diet and within a year was out of that range and back to normal.

[Afib_girl in reply to BobD]

I have been trying to lose weight nothing seems to work . I exercise eat right etc and my body won’t drop any weight I have been dieting for years.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Afib_girl]

Diet doesn't work. Life style does.

[Rebma in reply to BobD]

Bob, recently my husband was also diagnosed with pre-diabetes. Can you give a summary of your dietary meal plan? He has the exercise routine down and other life style changes. It is the meal planning (what to eat) that gets confusing? Thank you.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Rebma]

Luckily it coinisided with my wife stopping working so she now buys food and cooks rather than heating meals if you follow. I also reduced my meat intake by half most weeks, stopped stuffing my face with crisps chocolate and snacks and only have one round of sandwich at lunchtime rather than two. In addition to me loosing a stone plus we are also about £60 -£80 a week better off which goes a long way to counter her wages as a community carer (aka skivvy).

[Peacefulneedshelp in reply to Rebma]

Foods with lots of fiber which means lots of veggies, berries and if you’re a meat eater, eat less meat and more veggies. We are in winter where I live so I plan on more soups with veggies in them. We will see if that helps.

[Tomred in reply to Afib_girl]

intermittent fasting is a surefire way to lose weight , start with 10 hrs then 12 hrs then 16 hrs ,learn as you go but it really works , do a bit of research on , to start dr jason fung or dr berg on you tube will get you started.

[Barny12]

Well, the good news is that Metformin is currently being investigated as a potential treatment for AF:

healthunlocked.com/afassoci...

newsroom.clevelandclinic.or...

[Leechg]

Hi, I have been prediabetic for seven years. No mention has been made of metformin yet. My mother's side of the family are all diabetic and I have no weight to lose. Its just in the genes I think. I can't really comment on treatments not working as have been on betablockers which work most of the time. Can I ask at what level your HBA1C was when they suggested the metformin? Cheers.

[Afib_girl in reply to Leechg]

5.6% but I was getting dizzy an hour after eating… took a 3 hour glucose test and was discovered I have reactive hypoglycemia. Since I already have high fasting glucose when I eat it spikes super high then I crash to 50s hypoglycemia. My dr said this in the next step towards diabetes so he put me on metformin since I have been getting worse.

[Peacefulneedshelp in reply to Afib_girl]

I have dealt with hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) all my adult life and I’m old. You have to follow the same diet as one with diabetes. Don’t allow yourself to have those blood sugar spikes. Eat nothing with added sugar or a lot of grains either, like in breads and bagels etc. I gave all that up and lost weight and my migraines. It improved my Afib as well but mine I have recently discovered is due to a leaking nitro valve.

[Auriculaire]

How have you been diagnosed? By higher fasting glucose test? By your reaction to the glucose drink? By HbA1c test? If the first this is unreliable and you should ask your doctor for an HbA1c. There are many reasons why an isolated fasting glucose will come up in prediabetic range or even diabetic range. My fasting glucose is always in the diabetic range if I have had an afib attack overnight. A poor night's sleep will put it into the prediabetic range. A better test of if you are prediabetic / diabetic is to track your body's response to food by using a glucose metre and test strips. This is very easy to do. Test fasting , 1 hour and 2 hours after each meal - no inbetween snacks. You can find out what range the results should be in - for the UK system of measurement mmol/L I have seen between 8-9 mmol/l two hours after eating as an ideal range. This seems a bit high . I would be a bit worried if my post meal readings were that high at one hour . At two hours I aim for them to be considerably less. I have had fasting glucose in prediabetic range many times butwhen I show my doc the readings for the post meal tests he is always content. I have an intensive "stabbathon " twice a year to keep track of blood sugar.

PS Sorry - just noticed you are from US . I think you use the other system of measurement mg/dl like we do here in France. So the 2 hour post meal range given would be 144-160. I aim for 120 or less for 2 hours.

[Afib_girl in reply to Auriculaire]

yes I do all those things..

[Cha275rL]

I have just been told I’m pre diabetic too. Couldn’t believe it, because I have a healthy diet, weigh 9 st 2 and BMI is 23. I walk two - three miles a day. Not been given any medication for it, but felt a bit narked for a while.

[Leechg in reply to Cha275rL]

Hi, sounds just the same as me. Very annoying isn't it. Everyone goes on about losing weight to reverse it but I have nothing to lose. I try to go low carb. Hope you can control yours.

[Cha275rL in reply to Leechg]

I know, that’s what bugs me too. I’ll try to control it tho, but, unlike you, no one in the family has it, so no idea where it has come from. I’ve not long been diagnosed with osteoporosis, so this just makes me feel like I’m cracking up lol.

[Auriculaire in reply to Cha275rL]

On what basis? The best way to sort diet is to track your body's reaction to food by using a glucose metre and testing one and two hours after meals . Keep notes on what food you have eaten. You should see patterns emerging of what food causes blood sugar to spike. This is different for individuals and also varies at different times of day. My bugbear is bread - even the super high fibre wholemeal bread my husband makes . A commercial wholemeal bap eaten with breakfast sends it soaring. If eaten later in the day not so much. Fasting blood sugar in pre diabetic range can be caused by other things . Poor sleep . This stresses the body and leads to over release of cortisol which puts up blood sugar. There is also "dawn phenomenon " an evolutionary hangover from times when we had to go out to collect or hunt our breakfast.

[Cha275rL in reply to Auriculaire]

Thanks Auriclaire. I didn’t know lack of sleep could cause a spike, and I haven’t had a lot recently because my husband is waiting for a result of tests to see if he has bone cancer. Hopefully not.

[Qualipop]

My husband was prediabetic for 20 years. Unfortunately he didn't change his diet, carried on with pies, fried food and lots of meat and even now, having been on treatment for diabetics, still stuffs himself with bacon and cakes. I do cook from s cratch and especially since my heart attack have changed his diet massively but he still goes out and buys cakes, biscuits and bacon. Lifestyle really is the only way to avoid it but you just can't help some people. Cut out crisps, beer, pizzas ready meals,cakes biscuits, cut right down on red meat. Ring diabetes UK for dietary help. I lost 2 stone without even trying just by stopping nibbles and reducing carbs. Use smaller plates.

[Afib_girl in reply to Qualipop]

I’m in the us… and I do eat very healthy every dr I meet is always surprised by all my issues. i eat healthy no deserts no fast food my snacks are fruit cook at home. Veggies fish chicken salads w no dressing.. I fast as well skipping breakfast. I do elliptical 7 miles or walk up hill for 4 miles a day. I’m in my 30s with healthy ailments of an older person.

[Qualipop in reply to Afib_girl]

Please don't think when I said " YOu can't help some people" that I was referring to you. I meant my husband. YOu sound to be doing everything possible although my son who has spent several 3 month long visits in the USA made one comment about something that really shocked him ---portion sizes and the fact that he couldn't ever buy a small pack of something. Here he could buy a small pack of say cooked meta or cheese that would make a couple of sandwiches but over there everything was oversized.

[Afib_girl in reply to Qualipop]

yes when u go out to eat it usually lasts me 3 meals at least. It is a lot of food.

[Qualipop in reply to Afib_girl]

doggy bags! LOL

[Belle11 in reply to Afib_girl]

Do you eat bread and other higher carbohydrate foods? It's surprising how much even many "healthy" foods can raise blood sugar. If you're still eating these foods, here are some useful infographics that have helped many people to get their blood sugars lower and more stable. lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/dr-u... Good luck in finding what measures will help you improve your blood sugar control and avoid diabetes.

[Thomas45]

I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes after blood tests 6 months ago. Because I have right Foot Drop I have a problem of carrying shopping beyond a kilogramme in weight, so all my food shopping is done online and delivered to my door. Foot Drop occurs when the peroneal nerve is damaged, compressed, or destroyed. That nerve tells a muscle to pick your foot off the ground or floor when you want to walk. My peroneal nerve doesn't work so the muscle doesn't get a message and my foot doesn't move with the result that I fall over.

In England, and probably the rest of the UK, you can opt to go on a free NHS course for people with pre-diabetes. I did, but as it didn't start for 3 months I took immediate action, cutting out almost all items which had added sugar, plus all pies, pastries, crisps, etc. Morrisons cooked apple pies were wonderful but on looking at the labels they contain an unbelievable amount of added sugar.

I live alone and have very little will-power when it comes to chocolate bars, so I don't buy them. Biscuits also are not bought. I could quite easily eat a packet at a time.

I've also gone onto regular meals, but cut down on portion size. I still have snacks, but healthy ones such as a few walnuts or ten grapes. Breakfast is either porridge which I make myself with semi-skimmed milk, or Oatibix or Weetabix, no sugar added.

Lunch is something light like two rounds of wholemeal bread with either tinned sardines or mackerel. I don't usually use a spread on my bread.

Dinner may be a vegetable stew, or a filled 3 egg omelette with salad. (I eat fish but not meat out of choice.)

At Christmas I shall have shop bought mince pies and Christmas cake, but will ration myself and not binge eat. I shall also have a bottle of red wine. The last bottle I had was finished 2 months ago and took me six weeks to drink.

I know that I should walk more. I have what's called an Ankle Foot Orthotic on my right foot which makes walking easier but in cold weather it's not easy, and I always have to look where I'm putting my right foot. If I could walk more I would lose weight better.

Having said that I've gone from a 43" waist to a 38" waist in 6 months, (I am 6'7" tall).

The course is very good.

[Qualipop in reply to Thomas45]

I don't think there is such a course in our area. It would have really benefited my husband.

[SeanJax]

why not a diet as mine? No alcohol, no sugar drinks , just plain water. For meals just vegetables and fruits , fish or chickens or little of red meat or pork. No carbs at all or eat hidden carbs in vegetables or fruits. Eat as much as you can. When I mean no carbs it means no carbs. It is tough to follow but it is doable. I am getting used to it. We can NEVER exercise out a bad diet. The body can produce glucose using the fat in the body when you don’t eat enough carbs, which explains why we lose weight. Metformin can help bring down 20 points in your blood sugar, walking or treadmill or elliptical will bring down another 20 points . If you are still prediabetic which means you have between 100 mg and 125 mg/dl as fasting blood sugar. So you real fasting blood sugar without medication and exercises is around 160 mg/dl, range of real diabetes. So the root cause is the carbs in your diet. Get rid of these carbs and you will be ok.

The problem with diabetes is a daily struggle without rest. Not just a day or two, everyday is the rules.

In the states 90 million people are prediabetic. We see A1c between 10 and 11 as the norm in diabetics people. We congratulate patients if they can maintain A1c between 7 and 8 and we are so happy already for them.

So in a nutshell. Three keywords: diet no carbs, medications and exercises. Easy said than done for the diet.

[Belle11]

Dr John Day who has written a lot about diet and AF, says "studies show that anything triggering a blood glucose spike, like sugar or flour, may activate the immune system in a way that could increase the risk of atrial fibrillation. Likewise, anything in the modern diet like processed foods, fried foods, fast foods, etc. may also trigger this same inflammation-induced damage to your heart." so it looks as if you're right,that there's a connection between diabetes and AF. drjohnday.com/the-atrial-fi... Lots of suggestions in this article - he also has a book "The AFib cure"

I was tested for blood sugar issues and insulin resistance 10 years ago and started on Metformin. I asked the practice nurse if she could recommend a good glucose monitor and she replied that it would only depress me as I would progress to diabetes! Having started to learn about alternatives, I bought a monitor anyway, so I could see which foods affected my blood sugar, and in time found the work of the Southport GP Dr David Unwin, who has helped many of his diabetic patients put type 2 diabetes into remission and come of medication, with a low carb diet, anything from 150g carb a day downwards. 10 years later, I'm not on metformin, and my blood sugars are normal. 2 minute video here from Dr Unwin here, together with lots of info and links to various resources. diabetes.co.uk/diet/low-car...