Anti spasm tablets

[Profound15]

I have been advised after a colonoscopy that I have diverticula which from time to time flare up and cause pretty painful stomach cramps. I’m on 50mg flecainide twice a day and 1.25mg of bisoprolol once a day. Does anyone know if the anti spasm drugs available over the counter interfere, interact or affect the medication I’m taking please? Thanks

[Tommyboy21]

Im pescribed buscopan for ibs symptoms. The amount of contradictions I got from GP cardiology, arythmia nurses. I just went the fodmap route and stopped most gluten. Although I'm not celiac bread has always irritated my gut. I now eat only sourdough as gluten free bread is awful.🤢

[Profound15 in reply to Tommyboy21]

Thanks Tommy. Mine has flared up because I played golf this morning and all the bending seems to have set it off again. Do you take buscopan with arrhythmia medication at all. When you mention contradictions was that to do with the anti spasm tablets or other things (diet)

Does the buscopan stop the cramps pls

[Tommyboy21 in reply to Profound15]

Buscopan can raise heart rate. GP says don't take it others said ok. I've struggled a lifetime with stomach symptoms ,child colic.ibs chronic pelvic pain, ulcerated duonditis, reflux to name a few. Only thing that's settled it is diet and a little gaviscon after meal. Oh and some oregano capsule.good luck

[Profound15 in reply to Tommyboy21]

Thanks Tommy. Dropped an email to my cardiologist so we’ll see what he says

[Tommyboy21 in reply to Profound15]

If you're allowed try getting a prescription for buscopan there's more in box.

[Profound15 in reply to Tommyboy21]

thanks Tommy

[Luludean in reply to Tommyboy21]

buy it over the counter.

[Profound15 in reply to Luludean]

Thanks

[Autumn_Leaves in reply to Tommyboy21]

You may well have a problem with fructans which is in wheat, barley and rye but also in some vegetables and fruit such as artichokes and Brussels sprouts. A lot of so-called non-coeliac gluten sensitivity is actually fructans intolerance. I also had success working through the FODMAP protocol with a specialist dietitian, but as time has gone on I’ve been able to reintroduce my trigger foods. I also have to be careful with fructose-containing foods like mangoes, not that I eat them very often but I have limits to what I can tolerate. I just have to be careful about portion sizes, that’s all. The gut microbiome, I believe, plays a significant role in our ability to breakdown FODMAPs and it can improve with a good diversity of fibre sources and fermented foods, so we can build up our tolerances over time. I’m very wary about elimination of anything unless it’s necessary.

[Hidden]

Always best to check with your pharmacist………

[Autumn_Leaves]

You might find peppermint oil capsules (Colpermin) effective. Not everyone does but I found it very effective in the past for IBS spasms.

I also had success with the low FODMAP diet, which I have to stress is not a permanent diet and needs to be done under the supervision of a registered dietitian. I don’t advise anyone to do it by themselves because it actually takes a lot of work and self discipline, and diary keeping keeping, especially in the re-introduction phase. But if you do discover that some foods set of the cramping, you’ll know what to avoid and what you can substitute. I have found that over time I can reintroduce small amounts of my trigger foods, so I’m happy overall with that approach. You’ll need to ask for a referral if you want to go down that route. I have a relative with diverticulitis so I understand you’ll have other considerations like avoiding all those little seeds etc. It’s certainly seems like something you need to be careful about all the time.

[Tommyboy21 in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Probably because of COVID but last year my GP referred me to dietitian. Got a print out of fodmap through the door week later. GP could not believe it.

[Qualipop in reply to Autumn_Leaves]

Ooh I agree about colpermin. I'd forgotten about it. I had ibs for years and years;thankfully now settled down for a long time after I went on a low fibre diet. Colpermin and coated peppermint oil which dissolve in the gut not the stomach and were the only thing that helped me. The first couple of times you "go" after taking them it may sting or burn a bit but it quickly settles down. They are available over the counter if you want o try them before getting them prescribed. Peppermint really calms he gut. AFter an operation where I had terrible gas every where, it was suggested I try drinking peppermint cordial. That certainly got rid of the gas.

[Dinamite]

hi, my digestive system has caused me anguish a lot of my life and I swing from spasm to spasm but I avoid eating big meals. Little and often is far easier on the system. However all my tablets I take these days are not without side effects, a lot refer to upset digestive stomach, bowel etc. my GP won’t let me take Buscopan as it interferes with the heart so I am prescribed Mebeverine. Why not try that. I also take Loperamide which slows down my gut.

Going out socialising can be the trigger to unwanted problems so I think stress is a big factor, as it is with most things. To find a tablet that works and suits you will relieve your stress and anxiety.

X

[heartmatters1]

I found Buscapan didn’t help my symptoms, so GP prescribed Mebeverine, which is helping. I don’t take the 3 a day now though, but just the 1 - 30 mins before my evening meal & they seem to be settling my spasms/pain down. I take Apixaban (anticoagulant) & a statin. GP didn’t mention interactions. I suppose it’s wise to double check though.

Best wishes in finding a solution.

Ally

[Profound15 in reply to heartmatters1]

Thanks Ally. I’ll ask about mebeverine

[Luludean in reply to heartmatters1]

Fybergel ,the one with Merbeverine , on chemists is good.

[wilsond]

Pharmacists are the real drug experts,very helpful. Worth checking

[Ppiman]

I have the same along with what is called a "redundant colon"; it's been "flaring" for a good few weeks now with lower left abdomen and back discomfort. The longer bowel means I struggle with constipation so I have to take prunes daily to fight off that, but they can easily cause the runs mid morning. What a devil it all is! Despite there being several of them, the diverticulum that causes me the trouble is way down on the left between my hip bone and groin. If you find anything that works, do please let me know. I've tried antibiotics twice over the years in case it was infected, but neither time did they work. The issue can persist for a month and more.

Steve

[Profound15 in reply to Ppiman]

The odd thing in my case is it started up again yesterday morning through bending whilst playing golf. I had a buckled belt on and I think that was digging in. It’s eased a bit after drinking chamomile tea and using a jade stones heat pad I bought for a strained muscle in my back. I’d like to try anti spasm medication but don’t want to risk my afib rearing it’s head again as my flec/bisoprolol daily meds seem to be working well at present.

[Ppiman in reply to Profound15]

I have very little AF these days, thank goodness, and when I do have it it's not at all as bad as when I had fast flutter in 2019; in fact, I've only had a single truly terrible bout of AF, soon after my AFl ablation when I stopped the bisoprolol too soon. I might ask my GP about trying an antispasmodic, even though they have never helped in past times when I tried (many years ago now).

Steve

[Auriculaire in reply to Ppiman]

Despite a colectomy where 26 cm of my lower colon was removed for diverticulitis I still get pain where you describe yours but not any of the other symptoms. My GP thinks the pain is referred pain from the crushed disc in my back. I think it is complicated by the adhesions from my hysterectomy which my gastroenterologist said were some of the worst she had come across. During the colectomy which was keyhole the surgeon reopened the hysterectomy scar and tried to clean them up a bit but I suspect they have come back. I wonder if I will ever really know what is causing the pain . If the diverticules have come back there then they will show up when I go for my colonoscopy next year.

[Profound15 in reply to Auriculaire]

I’ve also got a colonoscopy next year around May so that should highlight any abnormal issues. I’ve had bowel cancer so get regularly checked. My specialist told me that I have a tortuous colon and the previous resection I had has grown back in. Upshot is I’m more prone to constipation so I eat plenty fibre and take laxido every couple of days. Having afib as well makes it a real juggling art

[Auriculaire in reply to Profound15]

I made my response to your post below probably at the same time you were writing this so I did not realise you had had a resection too. I had no idea the colon could grow back! Do you know how much they removed?

[Profound15 in reply to Auriculaire]

Don’t know as my specialist never said. As I mentioned as my colon is longer then normal I’m more prone to constipation. Of course the vicious circle is that when constipated you need to put more pressure on your bowel and then it exacerbates the diverticular disease issues. I’ve tried prunes and other laxatives but it always seems the same result. This time it seems to have been caused by bending whilst playing golf. This has happened twice in the last two weeks.

[Buffafly in reply to Profound15]

I also have an extra long bowel and all the problems that go with it. I had a bowel abscess caused I think by taking anti diarrhoea meds when I should have had antibiotics. I had a CT colonoscopy and they wanted to give me Buscopan but they asked if I had any kind of heart problem so I said only AF thinking they meant artery disease but they said it was a Nono for any kind of heart problem. So I would be careful.

[Profound15 in reply to Buffafly]

Thanks Buffafly. I’ve read that somewhere that it’s a problem. I wonder if the peppermint oil capsules Colpamin

[Profound15 in reply to Profound15]

sorry meant to finish the sentence. I wonder if Colpermin tablets can be taken as peppermint oil also seems to help the cramps. I don’t really have any other symptoms just the pains that come and go.

[Ppiman in reply to Profound15]

Colpermin caused me a lot of gas and pain when I tried it. I don't know why it did. I had a similar but far worse pain once when I tried a glycerin suppository, and also when I took a laxative in preparation for a colonoscopy. Goodness me, the bowel can be tortuous in more than one sense.

Steve

[Peileen]

Hi Profound15

Catering for my diverticular disease is my main priority. I take Mebeverine 20 minutes before each meal. That’s the only medication I have been prescribed. I stopped the Laxido as causing cramps as did the Fybogel. I take a teaspoon of plain Psyllium husk every day and that is so smooth and gentle. I will even get up out if bed to take it f I’ve forgotten. And no interfering with AFib. I have to take codeine for arthritis so need to take extra care not to become constipated with bouts of diarrhoea.

I wouldn’t dream of taking greens or peas or beans in any form. In order to get nutrition I blend blueberries or strawberries and mix into porridge to slow their sugar absorption. With the blenders you get nowadays I can add some nuts. I also juice defrosted sliced carrots. I can eat a small amount of well cooked sliced carrots. And Intake a vitamin/mineral supplement.

I haven’t required antibiotics for a flare up since 2014 through careful management. But I had to start eating meat after 1 years because I was badly anaemic from not eating pulses or meat. There isn’t much iron in the meat substitutes and I’d been too busy checking for protein to notice. Eating meat such as chicken and the venison from local butcher has greatly reduced the bouts of diarrhoea. I live in Deeside Aberdeenshire so venison is easily acquired by the butcher from an estate and deer have to be culled anyway and there isn’t the horror of an abatoir.

Although many doctors differ in their opinions, I find careful diet the best way to minimise problems. Seeds, greens and pulses would kill me. I do take Buscopan very occasionally if I have cramps.

Imwas very interested to read in a comment about that intolerance to a substance in some fruits and veg. I’ll be looking into that. I love brussel sprouts but they don’t like me.

I also avoid gradual reintroduction of problem foods. I’ve tried tat with horrible consequences, Diverticular disease is a physical problem. Anything sticking in them will contiue to stick.

Best wishes.

[Profound15 in reply to Peileen]

Thanks Peileen. It just seems a minefield.

[Peileen in reply to Profound15]

For me it is a way of life and just a routine without giving it too much thought. I do sometimes look longingly at tins of baked beans. I don’t take chances if out for a meal or visiting. As I say when first diagnosed after eating a lot of lovely olives I was reauiring not 8nfrequent courses of antibiotics and always had a supply in the house, I learned what not to take and watched my diet. I haven’t needed since 2014. A couple of nearlies though. Get a good blender and a juicer. I also juice a pile of lemons and freze the juice into ice cubes. Evry day I have one ir two in a glass of lo sugar ginger beer. A bot of work maybe but keeps up my vitamin C.

Also take a good probiotic. Good luck!

[Ppiman in reply to Peileen]

I have a friend who swears by diet but everything I have ever tried diet-wise has done nothing at all for me. I continue to eat normally with lots of vegetables and fruit, and some nuts, pulses and similar.

Steve

[Auriculaire]

I had a colectomy for diverticulitis. The surgeon removed 26 cm of my lower colon and this has been a great success. I can now eat whatever I want without worrying whether I will get an attack . No need for antibiotics or days on liquid and low fibre diets. I still have some diverticules in the transverse and upper left colon but my gastroenterologist says at this location they hardly ever get infected and they don't give me any problems so far. Finding combinations of drugs where the treatment for one condition does not set off symptoms of another is a pain. Surgery can sometimesbe a better option.

[Ppiman in reply to Auriculaire]

It must have been wonderful to get the relief that you have having gone down the surgery route. I've never been bad enough to consider surgery and somehow doubt the NHS here in the UK would do it. My GP is reluctant, too, so I just put up with these bouts. The worst part, I suppose, is the dull back ache that I get alongside the colon spasm - that and the length of time it takes to ameliorate. I often wonder just what is happening as there doesn't seem to be any infection. I guess that the elongated bowel slows transit, that creates more gas which becomes trapped and distends the area where the diverticulum is. I feel pretty sure that it isn't a referred pain from the back but to the back. All of the bowel is linked by various means to other parts down there, physically and nerve-wise, so I'm not surprised by the different parts affected.

Steve

[Auriculaire in reply to Ppiman]

I used to get back ache with attacks which felt different from my normal backache. I also got pain in my bladder . Probably because everything is stuck together with adhesions down there! I only had 2 very acute attacks where I had a CT scan and went into the clinic for iv antibiotics - I am sure that would not have happened in Uk. In between I had lots of lesser episodes that I managed myself. The second time in the clinic my gastroenterologist came one afternoon and nagged hard about having the op. I reluctantly agreed and she had the surgeon at my bedside the same evening. I had to have a pre op colonoscopy to check for any cancer that might need removing but she could not do it. My lower bowel was so bad with scar tissue she could not get through without risk of damaging it. She said this showed for certain I really needed the op. After my surgeon said that what he removed was " pourri" -literally rotten and still showing signs of infection despite the antibiotics I had had less than 2 months previously, and that sooner or later I would have perforated . The op is not without consequences though. The transit is greatly disturbed for a long time afterwards and sometimes never returns to how it was pre op. Constipation is not an issue - frequent trips to the loo are! I am certain that in the UK I would never had got the surgery till I perforated as how bad a state my colon was in was just not that apparent. That would have risked at worst my life, at best having to have the bag and a rejoin op later.

[Ppiman in reply to Auriculaire]

It seems like you have been very well looked after in la belle France. I suspect that that one lovely doctor who so well looked after you was the key to it all. That is so often the way, I feel. Yes, the back ache is quite different from disk trouble, which I have only occasionally.

Steve

[Auriculaire in reply to Ppiman]

One great thing here is that your GP will refer you to a specialist like a cardiologist or gastroenterologist and they can say who they think will be best. You then stick with that person if you are happy with them and usually go to their consulting rooms to see them . They are attatched to the hospital or private clinic. When you are an inpatient they come and see you. It's much better than not having any control over who you see and it often being someone different every time. After the op I saw my surgeon several times over about 6 months before being discharged. For my hysterectomy in Brum I never saw my sugeon till just before the op and I saw a doctor I had never set eyes on before 6 weeks afterwards and that was it. But the system is not free like the NHS is apart from for the poorest people. It is insurance based . How much complementary insurance you pay determines whether you can go to a private clinic for treatment or the public hospitals. The private clinics are less luxurious than in the UK but they don't cost an arm and a leg. You do get treated quicker too. But the professors of medicine are in the public teaching hospitals .

[Ppiman in reply to Auriculaire]

The profit-driven private aspect of the UK system is crooked in my view. A consultant working within it told me a while back great deal about the way it works and it wasn't good to hear. He was deeply unhappy with it. At that time, I was struggling with the costs of continuing with a private policy which we had originally from the company where my wife worked before she retired. Once we retired, the company increased the costs astronomically making it, this year, completely unaffordable. This happened to two friends, similarly. It should be illegal for them to operate in this way since it isn't insurance in the proper sense of the word, where costs are shared across many for the benefit of those few who are in need.

The French system sounds far better.

Steve

[Auriculaire in reply to Ppiman]

You only have to look at the fees the consultants charge as well. I first went to see my cardiologist in 2011. His fee was just under €50. I'm not sure what it is now as I am classed as " prise en charge" so I do not pay for anything to do with my heart. Or rather my complementary insurance does not pay - the state payment takes care of it . But my husband went to see him in 2018 and the fee had not gone up at all. An echo costs about €60 . The fees for surgeons are a fraction of what they are in the UK private system and the nightly rate in a clinic is about €100 euros for a private room . You can have extras like TV and wifi but they are not much. If you share a room it is much cheaper. Nor is there any nonsense about previous conditions not being insured. Premiums for complementary insurance do go up with age but not by huge amounts. I think most European countries have similar insurance based systems. The state part of the package is paid for by charges taken out of salaries and there are various schemes depending on profession . The employers pay into it too. If you are unemployed or very poor the state pays the lot. If you fall outside these categories as we did for a few of years before my husband turned 65 you pay according to how well off you are. After 65 the UK pays our state part because of the mutual agreement. We thought we might lose it with Brexit even though it was nothing to do with being in the EU but luckily the agreement continued. Because we are French citizens we are entitled to health care but we would have had to go back to paying URSAFF. Brits who come here to live now have to have totally private insurance which is much more expensive.

[Ppiman in reply to Auriculaire]

Goodness - that sounds a good system. Ours is breaking down badly. It’s so sad. The profiteering that goes on over here is an aspect of a particular form of institutionalised capitalism that has been allowed to develop unhindered.

Steve