Does anyone have AF that comes in short waves for hours, not sustained?

[MoodyBlue1969]

When I have an AF attack, what happens is that it comes in waves. I'll be in perfect sinus rhythm around 70ishbpm, then for a minute or so it'll suddenly go 200bpm relentlessly, then again instantly revert back to sinus rhythm at 70ishbpm, a few minutes later another intense run of 200bpm, then a minute later back again. This will recur over and over again for an hour, 2 hours, then it'll finally relent, sometimes after a bowel movement! Anyone have something like this? Please? I just don't get it. Every time I've read people describe their AF, they seem to say, I was in AF for hours and then converted. I have never seen anyone describe it as waves. It seems to me that each contraction of my digestive system leading up to a bowel movement sometimes causes extreme arrhythmia just during the contraction. It is the only thing I can come up with to explain the waves. This is how every single one of my attacks goes.

[Hidden]

You are not a "rare case". Some time ago, I have written the post under the title "Have you noticed?", which later was eradicated by the admin. In this post, I have warned the folks here that, lately, we have more and more people suffering on bradycardia, with more or less frquent excursions in SVT, falsly considering it to be AF-attacks, which they are used to. Usually, the HR is in the 40-ties or 50-ties at rest, spiking, for short intervals, at 130-160. In your case, only the frequency is slightly increased (70, going up to200), but everything else fits in. If you have the possibility to trace it electronically, the device will give you the information "possible AF" or similar, because it really is like AF, but in fact something very different. Just look at the people's reports, we have more and more of such cases (rarely understood by the sufferers). I wish you well!

[MoodyBlue1969 in reply to Hidden]

You're not clear on your meaning so I am unsure what you are trying to allude to, but I have been having these episodes since 2018.

[Hidden in reply to MoodyBlue1969]

English is not my first language, so I may be trying to say more than I can, hence the problem. All of us are AF suferrers, that is the reason why we are here. But, it does not mean that we are not prone to other arrhythmia also. What you and also others expect to come, is AF. But, lately, we have had more and more people with low HR (as I said, in 40ties or 50ties), with occasional bursts in the SVT (supraventricular tachycardia). This combination of arrhythmia is called "sick sinus syndrome" and is nothing unknown to MDs, but was less frequent before.

[MoodyBlue1969 in reply to Hidden]

The only time I experience what I would consider to be bradycardia is occasionally while sleeping, but even then it is just my watch notifying me that my HR was around 48bpm for a short time while asleep. That is due to beta blockers, as I don't have it when I am not taking them.

[CDreamer]

I think Nesko may have a point. Are you sure it’s AF? And the only way to be sure is AF is by ECG trace from a wearable or Kardia. It’s difficult to distinguish between ectopics and Atrial flutter and AF and even tachycardia from how it feels. How are you measuring your Heart Rate?

[MoodyBlue1969 in reply to CDreamer]

Never have been sure. I have an apple watch with ECG that is how I know the fast rhythm is going back and forth to sinus rhythm by the minute. The fast rhythm is so fast and looks regular, it is hard to tell at that rate. I have had times where tracings look like AF briefly but it's so brief, 10 seconds or so, if I manage to capture this the watch came up with AF a time or 2. But it's 99% either normal sinus rhythm or just fast during these attacks. I even have some tracings from the watch where I can see it go from 200bpm and revert to sinus rhythm instantly after finishing going to the bathroom, and then no more fast rhythm any time after. Peristalsis is controlled by the vagal nerve, so there's the connection to the heart. I do not have this every time my digestive system contracts, thank god, because I don't know what I would do if I had it every single day. It is still pretty rare, 1-3 times per month. Perhaps related to IBS and constipation?

[CDreamer in reply to MoodyBlue1969]

There was a post a few days ago saying that the Apple Watch algorithm can’t diagnose AF once rate is 150+ . Any case I doubt 10 sec is enough to get an accurate trace.

Yes, I had vagal AF and I think the gut/heart link is now starting to be understood. Dr Gupta (York Cardiology not the US TV Dr Gupta) was working with a gastroenterologist on gastrocardiac syndrome or Roemheld Syndrome - some years back they did a workshop in the US about it. However, they tended to focus on stomach rather than gut. My own experiences weren’t nearly as defined as yours but I have suffered from Colitis in my earlier life, mostly controlled these days with healthy eating and keeping gut happy. I certainly noticed a link between AF and gut flare and way back in 2013/14 believe I posted about it. So long ago now I really cannot recall.

I’ve done a lot of work to improve vagal tone through breath work, relaxation and cold showers - it has helped a lot. Now my vagus reactions only go hyper when I have an infection - as I have now unfortunately so everything goes out of kilter. IBS = inflammation = leaky gut = heart misbehaving. I’ve worked hard on the leaky gut Syndrone but it’s not easy or quick fix. IF or intermittent fasting makes a big difference, eating many plant based diet, avoiding any food which makes you feel bloated - too many carbs does it for me and not drinking enough water. I also take fermented foods such as kefir, kumboocha and sauerkraut, only sourdough bread and avoid processed meats especially.

[wilsond]

Yes its as if it was really trying to breakthrough my meds! Like a sea wave. Sometimes it did and I had long episodes but also times where it just petered out.I suffer from time to time with digestive problems,and it often coincided. So I think maybe you are so inclined,too.

Xx

[RAS54]

I have also had episodes where heart rate suddenly goes to 140bpm but only for few minutes. Heart rate goes back to about 60bpm then repeats.

[MoodyBlue1969 in reply to RAS54]

Does it go on for hours back and forth?

[RAS54 in reply to MoodyBlue1969]

No only lasts few minutes, the sometimes repeats. Usually happens when I'm asleep. Have a Garmin device but no Kardia.

[Leechg]

Hi, I regularly get episodes that last for two or three minutes and sometimes longer. I try breathing exercises and it disappears after a while. I might get them every day for a week and then nothing the following. I try not to think about too much.

[SeanJax]

why you don’t post some recordings while your heart rate is 200bpm? Afib rarely goes up so high for a minute. Usually it fluctuates between 150 more or less bpm and 80 bpm and it can last for days or permanently or it can resolve after a while. Anyway, do you have a rate control medication? 200bpm requires a strict rate control medication.

[Sniggetts]

Hi there, it’s interesting. My last episode of fast AF was caught by the paramedics on my ecg at 200 bpm , which was good . It was bouncing from 70’s up to 280 bpm within minutes.Then settled in Af at 140 , I did spend some time in the coronary unit to monitor & sort meds .

Bisopralol didn’t suit me so now on diltiazem…. Sooo much better, feel like I’ve woken up !

I do get flips of fast AF for seconds , mins at a time with a very high rate , often brought on by meals & needing the loo , as well as no apparent cause ! Happens a few times a day , so cardiologists going to add in flecanide once had CT heart scan as not good to keep having this.

From what I gather from this great forum is that unfortunately can be quite normal, but I’d definitely run it past your Gp or cardiologist.

I’ve actually had to stop using my watch & heart monitor as I became a bit obsessive & anxious about it .

All the very best, pretty unpleasant I know.