Excercise amount and rate advice please.

[kkatz]

I am in Persistent AF & on list for ablation.I do try to excercise every day if only a walk of 1 - 2 miles.I go to excercise classes at our local sports centre twice a week & bowls .All of these do give moderate symptoms but I feel better for doing them.Walking will take HR to 125 - 130 for a short time and feel this is the right level.The excercise classes can go to 145 but not sustained.I just moderate & it goes down.The question is should I be letting my HR get that high.

[CDreamer]

My personal view, supported by my doctors and physios:- tune in to your body, it’s far more intelligent than your mind and go slow and steady and build up gradually. You should be able to talk and walk. My personal HR top range is 120 but that was assessed by my fitness expert a few years ago but I still use it as if it goes above that level I can’t walk and talk - so I don’t worry about checking my heart rate during exercise but my activity app does give me a graph when I have finished. My understanding is that recovery time ie the time it takes to recover back to average resting rate is a much better indicator of fitness.

Hope that helps.

[kkatz in reply to CDreamer]

Thankyou once again CDreamer. I just wonder sometimes if I push too hard.I feel better for the excercise and I experience other problems if I spent too long not moving. Any idea what recovery rate is acceptable !

I could google it but answers probably more aimed at younger fitter people.

[BobD Volunteer]

A good rule is 200 less your age I believe. That and always being able to talk at the same time.

[kkatz in reply to BobD]

Is that for people with Afib or fit people Bob? I think normal people it is 220 less your age.

That would be 146 for me.

What made me wonder was your reply to a recent post which said excercise but not too much.

Thanks again .You are always there to help.

[saulger in reply to kkatz]

(220- age) is Maximum heart rate (MHR). It is not exercise HR.

If you are doing steady state exercising, such as walking for a longer period, the recommendation is to aim for around 60% of your MHR.

So, if you are 75 (my age) (220-75) = 145 * 0.6 = 87 HR

I do indoor rowing and go for 70% over 40 minutes (I can still converse), which is around 100 BPM

Zone Intensity Percentage of HRmax

Zone 1 Very light 50–60%

Zone 2 Light 60–70%

Zone 3 Moderate 70–80%

Zone 4 Hard 80– 90%

Zone 5 Maximum 90–100%

polar.com/blog/running-hear...

[Ellie-Ann]

as I understand it…you take your age and deduct that figure from 220. The answer is the maximum heart rate you should go. Hope this helps.

[kkatz in reply to Ellie-Ann]

Thanks for the reply .I was aware of that but wondered if I should be using that rule of fun in persistent AF?

[Ellie-Ann in reply to kkatz]

I haven’t been told anything other than I have A FIB. Had it 18 months. I walk and stop a lot here and there due to breathlessness and angina. I wear a smart watch 3 which gives me bpm so I can stop when it’s up a bit and uncomfortable. I am determined not to stop indoors all the time as I need to get out into the local woods to have some quality of life. I’m coming up 76. I saw a cardiologist last week having waited nearly ten months, as a result I have a cardio conversion coming up and an angiogram within the next ten months 😳

I do acupuncture every month and also a body massage which cardiology was happy with. Good luck. Hope you get sorted quicker than me.

[kkatz in reply to Ellie-Ann]

I am on list for ablation.At least 5 or 6 months.I have been in Persistent AF 18 months and have had a chance to build up excercise but still limited.Some days better than others.Such a long wait these days for everything.

Hope your CV is successful.

Kathy

[Ellie-Ann in reply to kkatz]

Thanks Kathy. I hope you feel better soon. I’ve got the mind set ‘ not giving in!’ 😄. I try to stay active walking most days with my husbands help, plus lots of stops for breath but it’s so good to be out there among the trees and nature. It does a power of good for the mind. Long may we continue!

Good luck with your treatment. 👍

[JoniM in reply to Ellie-Ann]

Hi Ellie-Ann, i have been doing monthly massages for years r/t neck pain (which is now gone) and am now considering acupuncture for afib. Can you tell me how it has helped? Thanks

[Ellie-Ann in reply to JoniM]

I just feel better for going. My AFIB is still there but I feel better generally doing acupuncture than before I did it. Of course it helps sort out other problems that I have too. If you are thinking of finding a therapist make sure they are properly trained. Mine has a degree from a university in same. No worries re needles! ( I take APIXABAN).no bleeding problems and mainly painless. Also… DEEPLY relaxing. Try it for six months and see how you get on or you’ll always be ‘ wondering.’ Good luck.

[Buffafly in reply to kkatz]

Go to the BHF website where you will find advice on HR to aim for when exercising - and look at saulger’s chart too. It is completely wrong and dangerous to think that an average person should aim for sustained MAX hr.

[javo123j]

I would exercise as much as you can and if you can run I would do that as it works the heart more. Have a look at this video where they talk about pushing heart to 95% of max. Maybe see doctor to get advice.

youtu.be/X-hH3NmBsLo(Not working as expected?)

[kkatz in reply to javo123j]

I will look at the video later.I love this guy so thanks for pointing me that way. .But I cant walk too far or do inclines so certainly cant run.

[javo123j in reply to kkatz]

I know it affects people in different ways. Good luck anyway.

[Ablation7 in reply to kkatz]

Funny, many people mention the incline. I have an issue with that as well…

[saulger in reply to javo123j]

This is a good link to read the article recommending Aerobic Interval Training for AFib patients:

ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10....

[MarkS in reply to saulger]

That's a very interesting article. It indicates that interval training of 4 minute intervals where HR gets to 85-95% of max HR is very beneficial for people with AF. Specifically, time in AF was halved, symptom severity was reduced and quality of life was improved. That's more exercise than being able to carry out a conversation! I agree that if you're new to training then being able to hold a conversation is good for the first few weeks, but then I suggest it needs to be stepped up a bit. If you have good oxygen uptake then you will be a lot less symptomatic with AF.

[saulger in reply to MarkS]

Since having the AFib, I dialled the effort down for fear of bringing on an episode, the article says the opposite !

[Barny12]

Some great info here:

bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...

and here:

kardia.com/blog/exercising-...

"It’s important to start by focusing on light-to-moderate programs like brisk walking, Tai Chi, or yoga. Make sure you don’t get above 50% to 70% of your maximum heart rate. Calculate this by subtracting your age from the number 220. If you’re 40 years old your maximum heart rate is 180 and you don’t want to get above 126 bpm.

If you’re on beta-blockers you might have to use the Borg RPE scale as an alternative, since beta-blockers exist to keep your heart rate low. The Borg scale is a measure of “perceived exertion.” ie you should aim to keep your perceived exertion somewhere between 11 and 14 on a 1-20 scale while you work out.

Avoid weight lifting because it can put a great deal of strain on your heart. Strength training is important, but resistance band training is safer and more effective for AFib patients."

[JoniM in reply to Barny12]

thanks for letting me know about the Borg scale. Ive been on metoprolol for couple of months and noticing that my usual daily 35-40 minute walk now averages around 85-90 BPM instead of the 90-100 I experienced previously (via Apple Watch). Im 70 years old. . My usual resting rate pre-drugs was around 59-63 and is now around 52-54. I felt intuitively that it made sense it would be lower but was still startling to be feeling very tired at such a low rate. This scale will help me quantify my intuitive sense of my physical exertion and worry less about the BPM.

[oscarfox49]

It is important to calculate exercise heart rate according to age.

"For moderate-intensity physical activity, your target heart rate should be between 64% and 76% 1,2 of your maximum heart rate. You can estimate your maximum heart rate based on your age. To estimate your maximum age-related heart rate, subtract your age from 220. For example, for a 50-year-old person, the estimated maximum age-related heart rate would be calculated as 220 – 50 years = 170 beats per minute (bpm). The 64% and 76% levels would be:

For 50 year old

64% level: 170 x 0.64 = 109 bpm, and

76% level: 170 x 0.76 = 129 bpm"

As long as you have not been diagnosed with any particular other cardiac problem, exercise can only do good, though like you I find it a struggle to do walks about the same length as you.

[ETHEL103]

Hi ive had my ablation and my exercise level is the same as yours apart from the bowls.My heart rate is still the same as yours when exercising so will be interested in your replies.

[kkatz in reply to ETHEL103]

So are you in nsr now

[ETHEL103 in reply to kkatz]

Yes after my flutter ablation in may.

[Keano99]

are you on Bisoprolol to control your heart rate?

[kkatz in reply to Keano99]

No just Adizem (diliatazem)

[Jonathan_C]

short answer: yes. Longer answer: listen to your body.

[Turquoise19]

I had my 2nd ablation in Feb and working on rebuilding exercise into my life. Used to run 3 miles at weekends, cycle to work 10 miles each way and endurance cycling on Saturdays.

Now since the summer have been rebuilding my cycling to work. Seems to be going fairly well n heart seems steady on it. Whenever i've done a v basic run/walk effort (accompanied by dog who stops me frequently). But heart doesnt seem to like it n triggers what I think are ectopics for a while longer. Am still persevering as I do want to get some more fitness back.

Have also joined a trekking group, fairly fast walks in the country. Heart also seems to like this too. Kind of steady n not a sudden HR kicker.

Was told preablation to minimise exercise so I just went for light walks. So just starting really. And my consultant said evidence suggests 3 times a week moderate exercise is good. Any more it can then start to strain it...

I didnt like hearing that, have also seen other posts that contradict that. Inc Cardiologist Sanjay Gupta on here!

[mav7]

kkatz best to discuss with your doctor.

The key is how fast does the heart rate come down after exercise. If it remains high, probably need to reduce the exericse regiment. Don't have time to google, but remaining high for over 30 min may be a barometer. Again, not sure, just a guess.

[kkatz in reply to mav7]

I believe my recovery rate is quite good most of the time.Certainly after the walks and after the excercise session. Worst is if I don't moderate the excercise in the more aerobic based class I do.It can take a good 5 mins to come down from 145 to in 120's even when I slow down.I did ask Ep in my one & only tel consultation about how high too go & he said let your body lead you.

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

I too have Rapid Persistent HR with AF.

The National Heart Specialist made anote of asking me "what is the most exertion that I would do.

I said I walk up the road and down to 4 square . Walking back is double worse than walking up my road.

Worse carrying groceries!

He was satisfied.

He asked me if my feet got swollen. Once 4-5 hours drive to Auckland.

Then asked how many pillows?

I said low. 1 or 2 depending how soft.

He was happy.

No to heart pain.

Some moderate exercise is needed to stimulate your heart.

Good work 1-2 miles. Not sure that I could sustain that.

Jaz my dog's birthday 9 years. I'll try a longer walk on flat!

cheri. JOY. 73. (NZ)

[kkatz in reply to JOY2THEWORLD49]

I am fortunate that unlike when I was Paroxsysmal my HR isnt high except on exertion such as walking too far or fast or on inclines.Also when at a certain excercise class.I am ok at one I go to which is a warm & loosen up for 15 mins ,then various stations each for 4 x 1 minute such as strength ,balance,aerobics,stepping.These can all be at our own pace.The one that bothers me is warm up then 1 min at station,1 min aerobics for 30 mins. I do take them at my own pace which includes swapping to seated or walking instead.Funinstead.Funnily enough walking up a hill for 10 mins can knock me out more than an hours excercise.

My hr is sometimes lower than I would like & that gives me worse symptoms.