For the U.S. fibbers who have been ablated; do you have a recommendation for an EP?
Thus far I am considering:
Dr. Natale, Austin , Texas
Cleveland clinic practitioners, Cleveland, Ohio
Dr. Burnabei, Lancaster Heart Grouop ( Penn medicine)
I live in eastern Pa and willing to travel.
Thank you
PS PaulBounce- many thanks for your pro/con ablation question!
A forum member here, Bambi, has had an ablation with a Dr Wolff in Houston Texas. She felt totally cured right away, had her energy back and was singing his praises.
Oh thank you so very much!!
Figbar, because of Bambi I have found Dr Wolf also. I live I. California. I will be having my procedure in Houston Texas in June. Dr Wolf has a different perspective on ablation. He believes that lone AFib (AFib with no other heart disease) is a vagal nerve issue, not a heart muscle issue. He is a cardiac thoracic surgeon and developed this procedure in which he goes in through the ribs and ablates on the outside of the heart where the problem is rather than on the inside of the heart. He also clamps the left atrial appendage which eliminates the need for blood thinners as that is where blood clots form that cause AFib stroke. There have been numerous people with multiple failed ablations as well as people who have not had any ablations that have undergone this procedure and are living AFib free with no meds as far out as 17 years. His success rate is 96% and the rate of stroke prevention with the clamping is 97% versus with anti coagulants being 60%.
Additionally, with an ablation pieces of burned heart break off and travel to the brain of which it has been documented happens. They have also tested it with Dr Wolfs procedure and there are zero pieces that end up in the brain.
There is a Facebook group, wolf mini maze , that you can join to ask questions, read about others experiences with this and learn more about it. Do your research and you can make an informed decision if this is right for you. For me it was a God send and because of Bambi coming here and posting about it, I am going to be able to live AFib free! Also, I’m told that Houston Methodist hospital where the procedure is performed is absolutely top notch medical care. Close to the top in the country.
Best of luck to you!!!!
Oh my goodness this is such wonderful information.Please please let us know your experience and outcome in June.
Prayers and well wishes to you.
Jean - I thought that was mini maze procedure not ablation? Agree worth exploring as higher success rate than ablation.
Hey Jean, it wasn't an ablation it was a wolf mini maze...lol
Ok thanks Bambi, so nothing was actually done inside your heart. I must look it up properly. I thought it was like an ablation inside and outside of the heart.
How are you feeling?
Jean
I am doing excellent! I dont even think about going into AFIB any more. It dosent matter what I eat or what I drink, or how much I eat or drink. I can bend over, exercise hard, with any and all activity and NO AFIB!!!!
Yes, everything is done on the outside of the heart. NO OPEN Chest. The heart is never pierced at any point. The "ablation" is done on specific targeted points on the vagal nerve (the culprit) until there is no more mis-firing and then the vein is completely encircled by a specifically designed tool that Dr. Wolf invented, and then appendage is clamped and sealed permanently (reason for no anti-coagulants)..
Insert a "TA-DA" here.....
So pleased to hear that news, it must be wonderful for you to feel 'normal' again.
Dr Wolff appears to have found the genuine cure. I wonder how soon it will be before other EP's use the same process.
Long may you feel so well.
Jean
Jean, EP’s cannot do the Wolf Mini maze. It must be done by a cardiac surgeon. And most cardiac surgeons do not care to take the time to learn how to work on a beating heart without opening the chest. They have been trained to do open heart surgery on a heart that is not beating. That is one reason it is not widely done I believe.
I wish docs everywhere would promote or at least inform their patients of Dr. Wolfs surgery as an option. Not to tell patients this is available for them, is just plain wrong. At least give them the information. And if they dont know of Dr. Wolf's 17+ years doing this, then I would question their continuing education.
Personal opinion, I am sure any of the EP's you mention would be well qualified. I have seen positive comments about Dr Natale in Austin.
As jean and CD mention, the Wolf Mini Maze procedure reports great results.
The bigger question is determining if an ablation or mini maze procedure is best for your circumstances. As jeanjeannie50 can attest, an ablation is not always the answer. Personally, I have questions about the mini maze but must agree it "reportedly" has great results.
A challenge with AF is learning to live with it. It often requires a less active lifestyle if you are accustomed to exercising, etc. And of course accepting the need for medications.
I would encourage you to seek counsel from an experienced cardiologist/EP and make the best decision for your cirumstances. Wish you the best !
Thank you.I am not really considering any procedure at this time other than an ablation.
I have a trusted cardiologist and he isn’t real keen to seek ablation right away but when I contacted him this morning about increasing frequency of episodes he said we need to talk more about anti arrhythmia drugs ( only on Diltiazam) and cited about 80% success rate for me with ablation.
Thanks again for your response.
Well, might I suggest you get all the information available to you do that you can make an informed decision. A few points to remember; afib begins on the outside of the heart, not the inside. Get to the source an fix that! The VAGAL NERVE is usually the culprit. The appendage, is the primary source of blood clots that result in stroke, that is clamped and/or removed. This is NOT open heart surgery, your lungs are not collapsed, and you are not on a ventilator.!!
I am referring to a Wolf Mini Maze
This is a one and done procedure with 96% success rate of ending afib and no more meds, not even anticoagulants!
This is, done by Dr. Wolf himself in Houston Texas. He invented this procedure some 17+ years ago, 3000+ patients. He is the only surgeon that can do this in the US. The other surgeon is in Japan...
Read about these two very brilliant and skilled surgeons.
wolfminimaze.com/the-wolf-m...
Thank you.I wonder if you need to meet special criteria to have that done?
It sounds like you have had great success.
Thank you for this information. I will certainly research this.
I read the information. Thank you.I wonder if anyone else on this forum has had this procedure?
How did you decide to have this procedure?
Did your cardiologist recommend this?
Finally, do you live in Texas ?
Thanks again.
Hope you were able to read how it began, and watch the videos also. Much information on that site. There have been a few on this site that heard my story on this site and contacted Dr. Wolf and either had it done or are scheduled to have it done. I have refused any and all ablations because I thought they were barbaric and it does not cure it, or stop it, and sometimes it slows it down. But afib is always there and always have to take meds for the duration of life. This was NOT Acceptable to me.
None of the 5 cardiologist or 3 of the EP's I had, have even heard of this before. My husband, a surgeon, was skeptical, and had called many of his collogues and none of which heard of him either. Now everyone was curious, did research, and were astounded by their findings. Dr. Wolf is amazing and his procedure is producing the 96% success rate verified for over many many years.
My EP was not on board with this at all! He said "we do the same thing here"
That was NOT a correct statement at all, they did similar but with less that 75% AND you STILL had to remain on meds for life.
Call Dr. Wolfs office, 713-441-6290, ask for Kimberly. She can schedule a video chat with you and Dr. Wolf. She is absolutely wonderful, as is the entire hospital community. When you talk with Kimberly or Dr. Wolf, tell them I said "hey" .
No, we live in Florida and flew to Houston. There are a few people from California that have flown in to have this done. I believe Poochmom is scheduled for June.
Glad your doing research. Making informed decisions is always best
This is so very helpful!Thank you!
I haven’t had it as yet but I am scheduled for June 27. After researching it, I have no desire to have an EP penetrate my septum to go inside my heart and burn it up and then after a period time and it fails go in and do it again. The Wolf Mini maze, as Bambi has described does everything on the outside of the heart with 96% success which I read every day on the mini maze facebook group of people having it done. Dr Wolf does 4 to 5 of these a week. And I am able to follow peoples recovery each week and beyond as they report it quite often. It was a no brainer decision for me.
Bambi, in your link, where does it say about about the other person in Japan who does this same procedure? Did he train with Dr Wolf?
Hi Jean. I willAnswer your question since Bambi hasn’t been on yet to do it. The doctor in Japan doing the mini maze is Dr Outsuka and Dr Wolf trained him. Dr. Wolf calls Dr Outsuka a friend of his. There is a webinar on YouTube where both doctors are on and discuss the Wolf Mini Maze. Dr Wolf Does a webinar each month on the first Tuesday with different topics and takes questions from People if you care to watch one. It’s really quite interesting.
Thank you Poochmom. I'm learning a lot here today. Is the Wolf Mini Maze something you're considering , or have had? Do you know the link to the webinar Dr Wolf does each month. Many thanks.
"His Name is Dr. Toshiya Ohtsuka. He and Dr. Wolf have been best bros, and train together for many years. I will have to ask Toshi how they met and get all the details for you.
Toshi calls his procedure the "WO" and Dr, Wolf calls his a "WMM".
Toshi a;lso trains other surgeons all over Japan, giving demonstrations and sharing information with others. Like Poochmom sais, there is a webinar every month and its recorded onyoutube.
Toshi post almost daily, includes pictures of the appendages as he clamps and removes them from his patients. , here is his link on facebook: facebook.com/toshiya.ootsuka1
Thank you Bambi. I wish one of them would train some British cardiologists. I've had three standard ablations and wonder now if my heart is too damaged inside for the Mini Maze to work. I will have a look at the link you shared. I'm learning so much about this procedure. Think I'd have to sell and downsize my house to pay for the procedure, but hey a dog kennel or garden shed could be made quite comfortable. 😅😂
I know of one other person (a nurse) that has 3 ablations and had a Wolf Mini Maze about 5 years ago. She too was successful in ending her afib. Are you on Facebook at all? She is the admin for our page for people that are thinking of becoming patients and those who are now afib free. Here is the link for the page. Ask to become a member and tell Sandy I suggested you come check it out.facebook.com/groups/4129396...
Yes, I'm on Facebook so will have a look. Will Sandy know who you are if I say Bambi65?
Thank you.
Jean
Just tell her Bambi, thats my real name and she knows me very well. Took me a year to make a decision to have a WMM.
One other comment about your British cardiologist .... They can not do this procedure because they can only prescribe pills, and do ablations. You need trained thoracic surgeons (TS) that have years of experience and can put their ego's aside and are willing to learn a new skill set! Watch the video from Dr. Wolfs site. This is extremely coordinated eye hand, and ability to move around a beating heart. Even my husband, a 30+ year surgeon was shaken knowing what can happen if a small accidental puncture or tear in the heart. I would Die within seconds! Yet Dr. Wolf has Never in 17+ years lost a patient or had any type of emergency like that. Now you may appreciate why many TS, do not want to even attempt this.
That's an amazing record! Thanks for the info.
Hi Bambi;I joined the Facebook group and have been following some posts.
I was surprised to see amiodarone prescribed, some fib some flutter and even an ablation post WMM.
Everyone speaks so highly of Dr. Wolf but I wonder if you are an exceptional patient?
I also understand that everyone presents to Dr. Wolf with differing degrees of heart issues/difficulties thus not all so perfect outcomes as you?!
Getting cold feet😱
My mom had multiple health issues, perm afib for years, diabetes, overweight and congestive heart faliure. I had NO other isues other thanthe afib monster.But yes, I was the fastest exit from the hospital on record Ive been told. (I hate hospitals, doctors and anything medical) so I got the hell out of there quick as possible. I was out of the hospital in 1 day, and traveling the next.
Mom 3 weeks before me, was in the hospital for 7 days, and 3 weeks later was in aflutter. NOT UNCOMMON or unexpected by anyone. She flew back to NC and Dr. Wolf monitored her by the linq. He called her and suggested she get cardioverted for the aflutter. Understand ...SHE DID NOT, NOR HAS SHE HAD ANY AFIB since she had the WMM. It is not uncommon to be cardioverter along with 3 months of the aminiodrone during the healing time for people with other underlining issues.
Every body is different, and everyone heals at a different rate. But what is common in almost every one of us (96%) is NO AFIB.
I went with mom back to Houston, and he spent all of 5 minutes cardioverting her got her back into NSR. She got cardioverted one more time the following month and has been off the amino and has been in 65 heart rate without any aflutter for months now. Her HR is even better than mine and Im jealous. Mine in 69-71.
dont get cold feet over this. But it is great to read all the different recovery stories from real people in the moment. Some have a harder time than other, and some like me just fly through this and feel great. What they all have in common.. NO AFIB!!!
Thank you as always for your insight.What meds were you on just before you had WMM?
Lol. Isn’t your husband a surgeon?!( referencing dislike of doctors, hospitals, and medicine!)
Yep, he is.... Now you can imagine what life in our home is like. Im have a very holistic approach to everything, diet, oils, ocean, acupuncture, yoga, etc. and avoid/ignore anything to do with the medical intervention, even talking about going to a doctor for any reason at all, would set me off. .When we would go out to dinner with friends (collogues) OMG... It was horrible, and Ive had to leave a few times. Too much details. I have sever tomophobia and it has been a huge struggle for us indeed.
Your honesty is refreshing.I can only imagine what those dinners must be like!
I have the papers to complete for Dr. Wolf; yet, the feet remain cold😵💫
I keep thinking though that this man may be due to retire or close shop soon!Soooooo…..
Looking forward to hearing from California Poochman’s WMM results in late June.
Always good to hear from you.
Stick your guns gurl; well done!
Do NOT hesitate. You are correct about the possibility of him retiring. Thats the only reason I did it. I didnt want to finally say yes only to find out that he is no longer doing these. Call him, talk with Kimberly. They are already 3 months out now.
Hi again Mav;I will add my sister had one failed ablation , refused more and is fine with her now permanent A-fib.
I am thinking an EP may best help me decide on meds to try before ablation. I am not keen on ablation at this point but dislike meds also!
Rock and a hard place.
I have made life style changes which was wonderful for 40 days, then fib came back !
I am most envious of forum folk who report an occasional episode ; last month was 10 times.
UGH!
Thanks for listening!
Good decision on trying meds before ablation.
Have you discussed a cardioversion ? Not often long time success but many doctors use to determine future treatment including meds.
The longer your in afib the more often it will become. Its a progressive thing. Stop it at the source, not just medicate it, now that you know that is a possibility.!
You and your sister are very fortunate that you live in the US, where you have much easier access to Dr. Wolf in Texas. Yall can live AFIB free without meds for life!!!
Can't comment on which EP is the best. But after going into afib that resulted in pulmonary edema, I was started on Tikosyn which has kept me in NSR for 4 years now without side effects. Before having an invasive procedure that may have to be repeated, I would make sure that you discussed this drug with your cardiologist/ EP.
Agree that ablations are being done over and over again on the same person, and they are still in AFIB ! So what is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.... LOL Just my humble, jumble thoughts.
How long were you in a-fib prior to WMM?What was recovery post WMM like for you?
Did you stay in Houston for a bit before flying back to Florida?
If you choose not to answer my prying questions, I get it, and that’s ok😊
Questions are not prying at all. Im pretty much an open book.
I was in Afib for over 6 years and the last 3 years were; 5-7x a week, EVERY WEEK !
heart rate between 160-200+
3-30 consistent hours each time
I kept a record of every afib attack I had on my Kardia for many years.
Then I found Dr. Wolf.....
My recovery was record setting, from what I have been told.
Monday I came out of surgery at 1pm, slept all night.
Tuesday(the next day), at 2pm. I was already dressed and visiting another patient on the floor that had surgery right after me. Then I was discharged that same day, to our hotel next to the hospital.
Wednesday, my husband and I went sight seeing around Houston for the day on the public trolley system right outside the hospital. Lots of fun ! We went to Goodie's BBQ and had the best ribs Ive ever had.
Thursday we met with Dr. Wolf for post op. and he said we could go on back to Orlando anytime we wanted.
Dont get me wrong, I was bruised! My stitches never hurt at all. I never took any pain meds at all. But the bruising under my arm and boobs,,,,, jeeze. That was the worst part for me., I jokingly told Dr. Wolf , my girls are not use to being man-handled, and we all laughed.
I have been off all meds, no anticoagulants and Afib free, every second, every minute, every hour of every day since July26, 2021.
You are amazing!Thank you.
I am sending in my patient information.
You are a WMM ambassador!
Good for you!!!! You will truly love Kimberly and be amazed with Dr. Wolf. Ask him any and every question you possible can. He is not offended by anything. Keep your appointment book handy also. After your video chat with him, he will say if your ready to proceed just let me know of Kimberly and she will schedule it for you.Then it becomes REAL !! When you talk with either of them, tell them I said "hey".
Lovelace Heart Hospital in Albuquerque, NM. Afterwards you can enjoy the uniqueness of the Land of Enchantment. And yes, New Mexico IS a state in the US.
Good morning! I am currently a patient with Dr. Bernabei at Heart Group in Lancaster, PA. He is an amazing physician and I am currently in NSR after 2 ablations. He takes the time to explain procedures to you and give options. I am so grateful to be in his care. My first A-Fib episode surfaced in 2019. It’s been a journey and I had a different cardiologist in the beginning after a hospitalization which was not a pleasant experience. I had many changes in meds over this time and some very bad reactions but happy to report, currently off all heart meds and only taking Xarelto. My 2nd ablation was February 3rd, 2022. Feeling better than I have in 3 years! I get a monitor in May and praying I will remain in NSR for a very long time but….. if it should happen, I know Dr. Bernabei will help me!
I was not impressed with the answers given by Cleveland Clinic cardiologists to patients' questions on an online "Q & A" site. I was actually shocked at the ignorance of the Cleveland Clinic doctors (including their EP's) when people with paroxysmal or other types of atrial fib asked questions about the vagus nerve, about how digestion and certain foods might be triggers, and especially when the EP's were asked about using various drug therapies vs. ablation. Although I live near Ohio, I personally took them off my list because they were so insensitive to patients who wanted more information. They could not discuss options to ablation, and that bothered me. Dr. Natale is so highly-rated, see comments on Afibbers.org; and Mayo Clinic might also be an option if I chose ablation in future. Best wishes... to us all in our search for healing!
Thank you thank you thank you!Your response is most helpful to me.
You are so welcome, Figbar! We are all together in this challenge. If you want to find that discussion by the Cleveland Clinic drs., search online for something like "atrial fibrillation and ablation discussion panel with Cleveland Clinic cardiologists", because I have seen it online a few times. But, basically, it was depressing to discover that these guys seemed to know less than the rest of us about AF :-). There is new research on pulsed field ablation and some other stuff coming down the pipeline that we hope will make ablation more accurate etc. so I am using metoprolol at present in hopes of not needing ablation right away. We're all so unique in our needs! Cheers, Diane S.
My cardiologist does not push for ablation and alludes also to new techniques becoming available, hopefully soon.Thank you
Hi harpist
Certainly understand your concern about the online responses from Cleveland Clinic.
That said, please keep in mind in our world of lawsuits and litigation (especially in the US) physicians have to be careful on their comments, especially when they have not examined the patient
Thank you for your response. Yes, I agree they have to be general in comments (I am a research dr fr. Mayo and, for my sins, was previously a defense attorney for doctors) but some of their responses were utterly incorrect, or misleading. CC does outstanding work in various areas; but these cardiologists uniformly recommended ablation (as you say, not having examined anyone) to the exclusion of various other options.
Fortunately, there are drs. w/ more knowledge of ways to manage AF before ablation, plus this excellent group with advice on lifestyle changes, diet, vagal stim, supplements, exercise, meds, breathing, stress management, much more to help us, prior to choosing ablation. And there is a wide choice of drs. & hospitals... should we desire an ablation at any point. Thanks and all the best!
You have a very interesting background!From your past and now current life/jobs you must have great stories as well as insight.
Thank you for sharing.
I will look forward to more comments/ insights from you.
Thanks for the response !
Like Figbar, will follow your insight on this forum.
I swear by Dr. Taigen at Cleveland Clinic.
Thank you!All of this info is so helpful!
Mayo Clinic is amazing! Dr. Peter Noseworthy, et al
Which Mayo did you go to?Thank you
MayoClinic in Rochester, Minnesota - rated #1 in the country (world) for several years in a row. The care you receive there is outstanding. (I’ve been seen in several departments besides cardiology.))
Dr. Zei at Brigham and Women’s
Hi Figbar, I have been exploring for a couple of months now the various options to my situation and who I might put my trust in for either ablation or Watchman or both. I too have heard wonderful things about Dr. Natale. In fact his colleague and founder of the Texas Cardiac Arrhythmia Group, Dr Horton is my EP. Dr Horton is renowned for device implantation. I believe I can elect for Dr Natale to do an ablation, if I prefer. Dr Horton may even suggest I go to Dr Natale for that, if he feels I need one. I have only seen Dr Horton once. We are running some additional tests so he has more information to help advise and guide me. I have also spent a lot of time considering the WolfMiniMaze. It is still a consideration. My hesitancy is that it is a more invasive procedure in terms of the surgery, not the heart. The recovery can be tough for some. I've been through a lot! Not sure I want to put my body through the WMM. But also very hesitant about ablations. For many of the reasons you are already aware of. I am a strong believer in the better the surgeon, the greater the success rate. I am living proof of that. My goal is to get off of the blood thinners, while at the same time reduce my chances of another stroke. The Watchman can do that. I would also like to end my AFib. Ablations are far more successful if you are PAF and have not been PAF for long. I'm not sure where I stand that way. Why the testing. If you can handle the three incisions on both sides of your body, along with the possibility of months of recovery, then the WMM is hard to beat success wise. I will add that the 95% success rate of the WMM also depends on how long you've had AFib and how persistent it is. Dr Wolf in his most recent video cast on his website goes over the percentage of success rate in curing AF. Anyway, just some more information for you to ponder.
Clearly you have researched much and are in the best of medical hands and/or referrals.I will continue to research and ponder and question and listen until a decision is made,
Thank you along with so many here who are helping in the decision making process.
Please let me know your decision, your recovery and outcome!
Best
Okay, I will let you know what happens. I want off these meds with a passion! I feel just horrible on them.
Multaq aka Dronedarone, 400mg twice daily recommend by electrophysiologist (EP)
Advice and Recommendations for Good EP for Croydon bigger london needed will go private 
Recommend an EP at Leicester Glenfield Hospital?
Can anyone recommend an EP. I live in Swindon. 
EP
