I've had paroxysmal AF for around 3 years and my episodes are extremely erratic. I can go several months with nothing at all and then out of the blue, it'll happen every couple of weeks. I'm on Lisinopril for high blood pressure and was prescribed Bisiprolol and Apixaban when the PAF was finally diagnosed. I've altered my lifestyle and have been teetotal for over a year. Initially this seemed to help but annoyingly I'm back to more or less where I started, although my heart rate doesn't go as high due to the beta blocker I assume. The next thing I'm going to try is to go all out and get aerobically fit. I do quite a bit of weight training with a bit of cardio but my plan is to tip the balance the other way and do more aerobic activity with fewer weights. I haven't been in touch with my Doctor as it's more or less impossible to get a face to face these days, but I'm thinking it's time. I turned 60 last month and my increasing age is making me a bit more anxious than I was previously. Thanks.
Advice please: I've had paroxysmal AF... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Advice please
I think your underlying problem PrivateRyan is that you are attempting to 'cure' the uncurable. AF or PAF is a long term condition which can be ameliorated through treatments and sometimes if you are lucky, halted by surgical interventions, but otherwise it's a condition which has to be accommodated in your life. There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to help yourself with lifestyle choices. It will probably help. You can fight it back with medications too but you can't entirely beat it into submission. Think of it as a rambling old house with bad wiring. Without a complete rewire it's going to blow fuses regularly. And as the body can't be rewired, we have to do the best we can with remedial fixes. There's never anything wrong with taking more professional advice so it's a good idea to consult a physician. You don't initially need a face to face appointment. If you explain in a telephone call what's wrong, your GP can decide with you what the next course of action should be. (We'll probably never go back to those cosy drop-ins at the surgery. The internet has happened and we also don't have enough doctors to go round). So don't put off taking that step. But I feel that overridingly it's about your finding acceptance that regardless of the symptoms you have at any given moment, you do have a diagnosis of AF.
Thank you. Yes I'm learning to live with it and I'm not as scared as I was initially. It invariably happens around 2am in the morning and I've even managed to sleep through it a couple of times, so that's progress I suppose.
If it’s of any help at all PrivateRyan, I’ve now reached the point where I sleep through mine and get really annoyed if my I watch buzzes to let me know I’m in AF. So there’s every hope! 👍😊
I always have to urinate every couple of minutes at the start of AF but once that subsides, I can get back to sleep. Frequent urination is an odd but known symptom and also one of the most annoying.
Indeed PrivateRyan, and once disturbed…..! I know how that goes🙄
You pee a lot during AF because your body us trying to dump sodium. Think sodium, batteries, electrical signals etc. But you DO need sodium in your diet so don't try to cut it out altogether
Yes, mine only happens at night and always from a bloated stomach when I've eaten too much, I stop eating around 4pm, it's helped a lot
That’s a great way to put it.👍 my rambling old house started creaking 10 years ago, then I got a lovely electrician in to fix a odd area here and there.? So far the electric work has helped a lot, the plumbing is ok thankfully but the brick work is falling off bit by bit the older I get.?😂😂😂
Lol, I know exactly what you mean Jetcat! I never know which bit of my house is going to give out next. I'm a bit worried about the thatch at present! It's the Apixaban! 🤣
Laughing my head off here.??? The thatch 😂😂😂😂😂
My thinning hair Jetcat! Apixaban is pretty notorious for hair loss. 🤣
Now you tell me! 😂
I know exactly what you meant but found it really funny when you said the thatch 👍
Hi PR.....you're the same age as me and seem to have had similar experiences. Reading on here so many different stories, it just shows its a very complicated thing to understand and we probably never will. All I'll say is what my Cardiologist said to me and you can decided if its helpful. 1. Unless alcohol is causing definite problems, carry on drinking as normal, but stay hydrated.
2. AF may have been caused by alcohol this time, but it could be something else another time.
3. I take 1.25mg of bisoporol a day, but if I do trip into AF, drink cold water and take another 1.25mg.
Ive been exercising post CV, but nothing uber strenous due to an arthritic knee that flared up in September. Still done 20 mile MTB rides and longs walks though.
So far, so good!
🤞
There are two definite triggers for me, alcohol is one and eating a large meal is another, an episode is guaranteed if I do both together. 😂 Is the extra bisoprilol recommend by your doctor when in AF? I've done it once but I'm not sure it made any difference. I'd like to add that the binge eating and drinking are things of the past now and I'm struggling to identify current triggers, if indeed there are any.
I think the problem is that IF your AF is caused by alcohol and there is a lot of evidence accumulating that it can be for some people, by the time you become aware of the consequences, the damage is done as it can cause scarring on the heart which causes the AF.
There is also a familial link for AF that can just mean that you are genetically predisposed to develop AF as you age.
That's interesting. I knowing term evening drinking was definitely a factor for me. And my brother - whose sadly an alcoholic- also has AF. Since I changed my lifestyle I now occasionally enjoy a half glass of organic cider. I've switched to high quality dark chocolate as my comfort device ):
Because AF is such a mongrel condition, I found the most effective way was to take action on all fronts (i.e. throw the kitchen sink at it) and then slowly introduce old favoured habits after a couple of years of no episodes.
A couple of years of no episodes! Oh if only 😉
Well, I started on 9 episodes in a month on 100mgs Flecainide. Upped that to 200mgs and added many lifestyle changes. Result two 20 min episodes in 8 years, so it can work. I hadn't a clue how to stop them so I did lots of research and followed up most suggestions, a lot of trial and error.
Hi Secondtry. Thanks for response. Sadly I dont tolerate Flacainide but I do take Nebivolol as PIP. And Apixaban. My EP (with his head in his hands) says he has nothing else to prescribe me. I've had af for over 20 years and 3 ablations. I have a new EP now and am heading for a 4th ablation. I'm in af for 24hrs approx and that happens at least twice a week hence my 'if only' message. Dont get me wrong I love to hear folk doing well, it gives me hope. I was being light hearted, but would love to be free from af as everyone on here would too. I do research and have changed my lifestyle considerably but I have not found that certain something that helps...yet. thanks for your thoughts. Stay well and in sinus!
Do you find that Nebivolol works as PIP rather than taking it daily?
Hi. If I'm honest I dont really know. Sometimes I think I'm not so symptomatic if I take the PIP early enough. Although I felt my chest tighten this evening so took the PIP and now I'm.in in af and I dont feel brilliant. I wish I could say it works but nothing I have tried so far has worked. But that is no reason not to keep trying. Good luck with your journey.
I think that you should not take any extra medication unless directed by your GP. He will know what he has prescribed and needs to know what dose is good for you. Adding in an extra tablet needs to be taken into account. Please remember that advice snd guidance on here is just that- support for you and to help you with your diagnosis. As everyone has said, AF is complicated and everyone is different. Take home message- please speak to your GP before you take extra doses.
Good luck snd happy new year.
Same here … heavy meal along with alcohol. I had one half glass of wine on Christmas Day … lost my taste for it … omg, l used to love a good gin martini … now, l wouldn’t dare!
yes he did say another pill was a good idea, but then I am on the lowest dose.
May I suggest that you look at this link which has some very good, concise information and consider reading the book Cure AFib, many of us have found it extremely useful although sometimes a little repetitive.
drjohnday.com/get-rid-atria...
Have you seen an EP about your AF? Although I don’t believe AF can be cured I do know from my own experience that finding the right treatment plan for you along with Lifestyle changes can almost abolish episodes. The only time I now have any AF is when I have an infection.
Lifestyle changes in particular can really help and my top 2 to look at first are stress management and sleep according to my doctors and closely followed by exercise, personalised eating plan and then moderate exercise.
Best wishes and don’t hesitate to ask questions.
Yes I have the Afib Cure, I'm actually half way through it.🙂
I'm reading it as well and interested in how high BP was treated back in the past here's an excerpt and I prefer treatment these daysThe Chinese Yellow Emperor’s Classic of Internal Medicine (2600 BCE) noted: “…If too much salt is used in blood, the pulse hardens.” Treatment of ‘hard pulse disease’ during ancient times included acupuncture, venesection and bleeding by leeches. The relationship between the palpated pulse and the development of heart and brain afflictions was described by ancient Egyptian physicians in the Ebers Papyrus 1500
Hello there, thank you for your post. If you would like to view some of our helpful videos or download some of our resources from our webpage, please visit heartrhythmalliance.org/afa... you will find a wealth of information in the 'A F Fact File' that may be helpful to you?
Thanks, the more info I can digest the better.🙂
When you have episodes how high does your heart rate go and how long can an episode last please?
My heart during AF doesn't go over135 BPM since I've been on bisoprilol, beforehand as high as 180. An episode can last anything from 2-6 hours.
You sound as though you are doing all the right things. I had atrial flutter and a successful ablation a year ago. I have had a couple of episodes of fast heartrate - up to 160bpm for only 5-10 minutes fortunately - the doctor thinks it may be due to Covid a couple of weeks ago. I also gave up alcohol and caffeine when I was first poorly. Best Wishes.
Suggest you keep a diary to try and identify your likely triggers. Next work on more lifestyle changes including stress. Don't 'go all out' on anything. Last tip, skip the GP and pay privately for a prompt cardiologist consult. It's a long journey so persevere and be assured you can improve your Quality of Life.
For more aerobic fitness try interval walking. I'm 65 and manage this well. Small steps though! Walk for 2 minutes, speed up for 2 minutes, hurry whilst pumping the arms or run for 2 mins. Stop. Wait for your hear rate to go down. Stay for 2 minutes. Repeat of you feel like it. It may not suit everybody but if your AF isn't exercise induced you might enjoy it. Personally it makes me feel more alive.
Back in my rugby days interval training was called a 'fartlek'. Jog 4 lampposts, run 4, sprint 4, for example. Now I'm 60 I go out 2 or 3 times a week in running shoes and walk, but throw in jogs between landmarks. I call this an 'OldFartlek'! Anyone who can jog a few yards can do an OldFartlek as it's up to you how much jogging or running you add in.
It's surprising how quickly you can do a bit more, and as Singwell says, once the heart rate goes back to normal afterward, you do feel better for the rest of the day.
In my running days I would have called that a jalk...jog/walk😁. My af has got to the point that a fast walk does me in and I dont recover anywhere as soon as I use to. It's scary as I was always so fit. I ask someone to walk with me these days as I can feel quite unwell, but walk I will, every day. Use it or loose it eh?
Old Fartlek....lol. Yeah I think its a German term and you see Fartlek routes through the forests out there. Not just running and walking, but exercises at certain points too. Its actually the best exercise you can do in so many ways, because you can tailor the length, the intensity and the exercises to your age and fitness and get a great all round workout.
I'd just like to thank everyone who's taken the time to reply to this thread Some very useful advice.🙂
I’m going to add my penny worth.
See an EP, a recommended one.
All cardiologists (however much you pay them) are not the same when it comes to AF.
Your triggers sound vagal? In which case rhythm rather than rate control may be most important. My EP was very unkeen on Bisoprolol as first defence, vagal triggers indicate that the rate has steeply slowed, the rhythm stumbles, the heart then races to get back in control. (Imagine tripping on a kerb).
If the triggers are stress / excitement then the rate increases and the heart loses the ability to be in a steady rhythm and lowering the rate helps it get back. (Imagine running so fast your feet can’t stride). Crude imagery but it helped me.
Have you considered asking an EP their opinion about an ablation? As others say, even if the initial triggers are identifiable in time the AF can be triggered by all sorts of things. Good luck
I understand the analogy thanks. I'm trying to avoid an ablation if possible and my cardiologist hasn't suggested it as yet. The last time I saw him I thought I had it under control but obviously recent episodes have knocked me back. I'll try to have a better conversation next time, the last appointment was over the phone so the conversation was a little strained.
My EP convinced by research that ablation best done earlier in the journey before the heart has got used to AF…
Really good advice here.I've been living with af for 17/ 18 years and don't have obvious triggers.
It sounds helpful to me that you've already identified yours and are willing and prepared to make lifestyle changes. Good for you! Useful to also hold in mind that AF is full of surprises and not that predictable.
Super good luck to you.
I sympathise with you, as I'm in a similar situation. I've had PAF for 14 years now and during that time have seen it come and go - I think I went for almost a year once with no episodes. I'm in a bad patch now but hopefully it will recede again, but as one of your other respondents said - I know it never goes away, despite medication and two ablations. Throughout all this period, I have kept very fit and in good physical condition. I have decided there are two main triggers for me - alcohol and endurance exercise (one caridologist told me - think marathon, not sprints). I think we all recognise the first of these; my attitude is I drink in moderate quantities but avoid alcohol before/after any prolonged/endurance exercise (which for me is climbing mountains). When I do have my days in the mountains, I seem to become 'primed' for an AF episode, which usually hits me between 1.00 and 3.00am. Sometimes, nothing happens (like last night - after a day slogging up a snow covered hillside), other times it does (like last Tuesday night afetr a day slogging up hillsides). I still don't really know what pushes me over the edge, but this may be associated with food intake (timing, type and amount). So, thinking about your plans to start doing weights, you should see benefits in terms of all round health but the effect on your PAF will be harder to predict - it may help, but then again, it may not. We are all different. But, give it a go and see what happens.
I lift weights already and have done for over 40 years. Obviously I don't lift as heavy now, but I try to keep the volume reasonably high by lifting lighter weight more often. I'm thinking of cutting back on the weights and replacing with more cardio, can't do any harm I'm hoping.
I would discuss with your doctor how much weigh-training is safe. Lifting too much can put a strain on the heart. I think that your plan to do mostly aerobic exercise is the right one. Like you, I was diagnosed about three and a half years ago. The longest period I have gone without AF is 7.5 months (last year). Then I had two episodes within a week of each other in December. Does this mean the condition is progressing? It's impossible to say. Things which seem to be good in preventing AF in my case are: avoiding large meals, avoiding sugary meals, walking or cycling daily, avoiding too much tea or coffee, avoiding stress. Of course, none of these measures are guaranteed to keep AF at bay in the longer term.
You should also look at your diet and when you eat. Almost eliminating gluten entirely has made my episodes far far less frequent, and eating late can be a trigger. Also sleeping on left side and sleep apnea can also cause episodes. Good luck.
PrivateRyanConsider this, since your case fits well with this one and if you do try it, give it some time, i.e. be patient and diligent.
Thanks for the link! It’s a fascinating read. I’m going to try the author’s dietary recommendations. Do you know whether cranberry juice sold in grocery stores can be substituted for the cranberry smoothies he recommends?
I don't know the answer to that. I buy bags of cranberries and freeze them until I use them. Usually I cook them up with some orange juice and one teaspoon of sugar and then use that as jam or have it with a spoon of ice cream or some yogurt. He has participated on another forum and there is a lot of info there if you're interested, afibbers.org/forum/search.p...
Try magnesium taurate … l have the same condition as yours … no alcohol is a good thing … my cardio version really helped l think. I haven’t had an episode for over one year! Best, Jan
I have a saying I like to use: "Exercise is always good". However, you should be aware that excessive exercise can cause a greater susceptibility to AF, as proved by the number of top end athletes who eventually end up getting it - more than any other section of the population. So, exercise is always good, but don't over do it!
I think you can go crazy taking all the advice on this thread, let alone all the other similar threads. I'm very new to this too and starting to realise at 60, despite being in good health currently, that its probably the start of a journey, with many ups and downs to come. Therefore, I'm reading as much as possible to help me understand it all, but only really taking advice from my Cardiologist.
I just want to say how helpful and in a way comforting I find his forum,I have had A.F. over 8 years now,76 years old and female,usually about 3 episodes a year, but in Nov/Dec had two in a week,second time ending up in A and E, now waiting for a referral to a cardiologist for a review. Mine always starts when asleep which makes me afraid of going to sleep,but I know I must.It really is great to know I am not alone,and I do find a lot of the advice very helpful,am so glad I get regular updates,so thanks everyone on here,feel I have friends who understand.
My Kardia device stopped working so changed the battery and still dead. I took the plunge and ordered a new one but that's not working either. I've tried 3 different mobiles and it still won't work so I've had to return it.😔 Very strange as I've had one since 2018 without any problems.
Had my telephone appointment with the cardiologist this afternoon and he's referring me for an ablation. Obviously, it'll just be a consultation initially but at least I'll be talking to experts on the condition. I'm torn at the moment as I think I know the triggers and have eliminated most of them. Anxiety is one, as my last episode coincided with having to put our 14 year old Labrador to sleep.😥
I'm also feeling anxious at the moment, as I have a business trip planned to Italy next Wednesday. It means a 4am start and then a very long day, probably not getting to bed until close to midnight. I'm scared I'll go into AF when I'm over there and can hardly stay in bed all day to recover. We're quite deep into a project that I've been heavily involved in, so my presence is expected but not in anyway forced. Decisions, decisions.
🤔
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