I recently posted about having a flare up of ectopics whilst suffering from a cold/virus. (Update about that - they are lessening but still there) This flare up has got me thinking....
Quick history - I have suffered from 'heart flutters' since very young (I think I can remember complaining of them as early as about 9 or 10) - got investigated through the years and they were found to just be ectopics.
However in January 2020 I suddenly went into Afib out of nowhere, it was the most terrifying experience of my life and it ended with an electrical cardioversion in A&E after about 6 hours of afib. The episode followed a period of about two weeks of drinking alcohol moderately (not excessively) but every day. I was also taking fluoxetine for anxiety at the time (for which one of the listed side effects is irregular heartbeat).
I have not since had another afib episode, and the obvious question is will I have another one? I saw my cardiologist for a check up about four months ago and asked him this question and he said that it is perfectly possible I could never experience another one again, so I am hopeful. (I drink much less now and no longer take fluoxetine, and am much fitter than I was at the time of the episode).
My recent flare up though has got me in fear again and the questions and doubts are rearing their ugly heads again. Any wisdom appreciated!
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Tomgunn
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I think you probably realise that alcohol is best avoided completely. That was how my AF started forty five years ago. I didn't drink a lot but enjoyed fine wine (when my bank balance would allow) but found more and more that even one sip would cause some strange reactions which at the time nobody understood. I stopped drinking completely on advice of my doctor and the problem vanished for about twenty years. Then the strange things started again drink or no drink and after a few more years of miss-diagnosis I was finally found to have AF in 2004.
What you must understand is that AF begets AF. The more you have the more you will get as the rogue pathways start to form in your heart so provided that you take all steps to aviod another event like good diet. no alcohol. good weight (BMI less than 26) less meat and processed foods and avoid over exercise and stress and stay well hydrated at all times then you may never have another AF event but every one you do have will increase the likely hood of more.
Some people have a pre-disposition to AF (sounds like you do )and any inflamation in the body can add to that load so take care with you life choices. Many people find a dagnosis of AF is the catalyst for life style changes which greatly improve not only quality but also length of life.
All that said, AF is life changing rather than, life limiting so keep smiling and enjoy life.
Wow BobD this is such a fantastic answer, thank you so much for taking the time to give it. It was very interesting too, and also has given me a lot of hope that if I maintain my healthy lifestyle hopefully I can keep another episode at bay indefinitely. I forgot to mention I was relatively young when I had my episode - 28 (30 now).
I am definitely predisposed to problems, I have found my heart to always have been sensitive to caffeine, alcohol, nicotine (gave up smoking years before AF episode), stress, being bloated, bending over, being busy, doing nothing at all, etc etc etc. But if it it's ectopics I can live with it.
I guess my next challenge will be to take your advice and keep smiling and enjoy life, and believe that my lifestyle choices will keep AF away.
Thank you again, you have put an anxious mind at ease.
Try not to worry and enjoy living your life! You can't worry about every ectopic beat. You just know your heart is a bit dodgy so look after it. Don't drink alcohol or strong coffee if that sets it off, keep exercise moderate and healthy food etc. You are young and probably have years ahead of you but none of us knows what a day will bring. Get right with God so you are ready to meet him and then you can live with peace in your 💖. Ask me if you want to know more.
Ah Bob...always look forward to your reminder to me...and all others who wonder if AFIB can ever be considered a one-and-done or a life long, non life threatening affliction, that will eventually become a regular occurrence for the rest of our days 😆 Every day, week, month that goes by with me feeling fantastic, without a single issue, except for that one episode last year...I hear your voice whispering in my head *insert Russell Streiners' voice as Johnny in Night of the Living Dead" ..."oh go ahead and get complacent laddy, go ahead and enjoy your fantastic diet, your active lifestyle, your perfect weight...it still is coming for you...it will get you, and get worse and worse and worse...it's coming for you!"
😜...as I nervously sip my decaf coffee, and remind myself that Chritsmas holidays are just around the corner...full of tempting short bread, ginger, Christmas cake, turkey etc etc. *sigh*
Bob whispers again..."moderation ol' son, moderation"
I would reduce all risk areas you know of and read this Forum until squinty eyed for the remainder, with the aim of building up a couple of years of AF free life. Pursue moderation (or less in the case of alcohol) in all things and don't get complacent if feeling fine.
After 2 years re-assess your position, you could be pleasantly surprised.
Absolutely, I was quite heartened when after loads of tests I was all OK structurally (i.e. Lone PAF) and was determined from the start I would use this wake-up call to drive me to take healthier choices on all fronts.
I have a similar history of ectopic beats then, in 2019, out of nowhere, an attack of atrial flutter and tachycardia that required an ablation to resolve. Since then, I have had a few episodes of AF but regular ectopic beats and mild tachycardia.
You mention anxiety. When I was younger, I had several "anxiety attacks", at least they were put down to anxiety by my GP. They were odd things as they often occurred without any obvious provocation, and never once occurred when I was under actual stress. Well, my cardiologist theorised that those "anxiety attacks" had perhaps been bursts of atrial flutter or fibrillation, which, he said, would bring on similar feelings. On reflection, although I shall never know, I think he might have put his finger on something.
With regard to what can be done to help AF, I would guess that it would be worth considering reducing the things that usually accompany it:
- sleep apnoea (>50% of cases);
- high BMI, especially caused by abdominal fat;
- sedentariness;
- hypertension;
- diabetes
As for drinking alcohol, it has never caused me to have any heart issues, and the evidence seems to suggests moderation is safe. As with caffeine, I think some people cannot tolerate these things, whereas the vast majority can.
Thanks Steve for your interesting reply, I did indeed (and still occasionally do) suffer from panic attacks, which are more often than not triggered by bursts of heart flutters/ectopics, and the the two problems fuel each other in a viscous circle. So seems like we have gone through similar versions of hell!
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated indeed, all the best
And hell it feels like when it's happening. It's such a hard thing to deal with. I've always felt that few realise quite what anxiety (or depression) is, even though everyone thinks they do. It's a bit like insomnia, another ailment the media and everyone seems to understand but, I feel, probably don't.
Hello Steve, hope this message finds you well. I have noticed over previous posts that you seem to have a bit of a history with ectopics and am wondering what, if anything, you have found to reduce their frequency / intensity?
I have been having them (PACs mainly with bit of tachycardia thrown in for good measure) for the past 18 months or so. Some days only a few or hardly there whereas other days 100s or even 1000s/ 10000s on particularly challenging days.
I do find that at times being more physically active will help (but not always) and I do believe magnesium taurate and CoQenz-10 supplements have provided some benefit. Though I am on daily flecainide as well at 75mg x 2 and this I believe does help to control them to some degree (as when I try to taper off the flecainide I nearly always see the ectopics ramp up in duration and intensity and then the tachycardia sets in and then eventually experience afib episodes)
Hi there. Thanks for writing. I'd love to exchange notes, for sure. You seem to have them much worse than I do - at least some of the time. Mine come possibly with tiredness more - I can't put my finger on why, but I have insomnia and mostly feel worn out.
Mine show as PVCs on the Kardia but my cardiologist says they could be PACs. He said these arise in the same spot near the pulmonary veins in the aorta where AF starts and that there is a known connection, even though for most people they are benign.
It's been October since I had a long run of them and then it felt much the same as when I had AF (which I had at around the same period). Luckily since then, things have calmed a lot, except for the tachycardia. That has been a regular occurrence for over a year now. It often starts during breakfast, but, again, I can't fully put my finger on it. Yesterday, that was the case. My heart rate just went up to 90-120 and made me feel a bit anxious and ragged. I took 1.25mg bisoprolol yesterday, and that did eventually bring it down and made me feel calmer but, even by afternoon, I was having 105bpm while playing with my grandson. I just pressed on but there's always an anxious feeling with it.
Hello Steve, thanks for taking the time to respond. I am glad that your ectopics, either pacs or pvcs, have settled recently, as I can certainly empathize that they feel like afib especially with intense clusters or having lots of them for an extended period. If I have a few a day, here and there, they are just mildly disconcerting, but 10-20 minutes runs where every second beat is a pac makes me not only feel the rumblings of my heart but out of sorts with aura like effects (can many times tell when pac episodes coming as will feel change in heart and get sweaty and feel free floating anxiety).Wondering if your tachycardia leads to afib episodes or if the bisoprolol keep sthe mostly tachycardia in check. How long do your tachycardia episodes usually last, as I will have short periods of tachycardia when not in afib but normally just for 5-10 beats.
Hi - coincidentally, I had a longish run (for me) of palpitations the other day where every second beat was ectopic, but they stopped after about 30 seconds or so and I wasn't able to record it. It did feel weird so how you cope with twenty minutes of them, well... whew!
You mention an aura like feeling. What I have had a very few times, but not for a good while (before my ablation in 2019), has been a sense that people near me aren't talking quite in the present, as if there's a delay or something. It's an odd and very disconcerting feeling - almost aura-like.
I've only had a few AF episodes that I've caught on my Watch or Kardia and they seem to come from nowhere and last for hours. Mostly I get the tachycardia and feel out of sorts and weak - much as with AF. I only take bisoprolol when I get events and it does seem to bring me back to normal rate and NSR, thankfully. I have LBBB, too, which shows often on the Kardia as "NSR with Wide QRS". It's because of that, that my cardiologist wants to keep me out of AF, he told me, as the two aren't good for the left ventricle. If I had more frequent AF, he's told me to take 1.25mg daily and to get back in touch.
A very interesting post Tom and also some really great answers many of which resonate with me. Likewise from being a child I have experienced ectopic beats which I have to admit, when bad, can be very scary. I had one bout of AF confirmed while I was wearing a monitor and I was asleep at the time - so I don’t really know how it feels. On the basis of that I was put on APIXABAN as my age and gender indicated this - and after radical lifestyle changes - weight loss and diet and no alcohol or caffeine the troublesome and dreaded ectopics have all but disappeared. Knowing about ectopics has helped me fear them less but the terrible anxiety they cause create a vicious cycle and it’s something I dread recurring. I hope I can scrape by feeling this good for ever. The previous answer made me consider the link between anxiety and ectopics - hard to unpick where one starts and the other begins and which comes first. Like the previous poster I had terrible anxiety as a teenager and irregular heartbeats where always a factor which I sought medical advice for - who knows what was going on but in retrospect I think ectopics were to blame. The resulting feelings are the same! Good luck to you and thanks for your post - food for thought. 😊
Thank you for your reply, again very interesting and despite not wishing it on anyone, it is heartening (no pun intended!) to hear that others have gone through similar feelings, fears, and symptoms as I have.
You're definitely on the money with the link to anxiety, I have always found that ectopics/flutters etc immediately triggered panic attacks for me, and the resultant adrenaline spike fuelled the skipped beats more.
It has just been so encouraging to hear from people that have been able to 'overcome' afib by simply taking care of themselves. Hopefully an apple a day will keep the cardioversion away!!! Take care and thanks again
Can’t really add much more than what Bob said. Hit the nail on the head. Keep at the healthy lifestyle before af takes hold and hopefully you’ll never have to deal with it again 🤞
I was only 33 when diagnosed, so young, like you (35 now) I stopped pretty much anything that had an even remote chance of being detrimental to my body. I live a very healthy lifestyle now and have had an ablation also so hopefully onwards and upwards from here.
Unfortunately like you I probably had a genetic disposition for af, although no one in my family has had it 🤔 I also have had massive inflammation issues for the last 10/11 years so totally agree with Bob that this was probably a major factor in me getting it.
Anyway good luck Tom I hope your healthy lifestyle keeps it at bay 👍
I was taken to hospital in Sept 2020 I had been out drinking the day before and had to many bacardi and cokes next morning I got up with hangover fed my cat and was about to go back to bed when my heart felt like I had put shoes in a tumble dryer .never been so frightened in all my life .was kept in and then given bisoporol 5mg came home and didn't take the bisoporol as was frightened and didn't take anything for 6 weeks then started taking them mid November as my heart was really fast but steady and my doctor said it was panic attacks I've been on bisoporol ever since I take 1 every night but since taking them I get awful thuds in my throat and my pulse misses really scary so I know how you feel .
Sorry to hear you've been having these problems, I hope the medication starts to help. Your description of your heart feeling like shoes in the tumble dryer is probably the best description I've ever heard so thank you for that! Brilliant! All the best
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