Having a moan, I was diagnosed three years ago with AFib , I am 73. This disease is the most awful thing and no one in the medical profession seems interested . I have no contact with my Consultant and my Doctors told me you have a chronic condition , learn to live with it. And here are some more tablets , go away.
I had a conversion that lasted about a year then back to afib. Have been told I’m too old to have an ablation !!!
My life has totally disintegrated and I feel on the scrap heap.
I take Digoxin , Bisoporol and Eliquis among others but am tired and have no interest in anything anymore
Sorry for the moan , anyone else out there feel forgotten ?
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Dorchen
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feel your pain. I suspect you were very active and now poof- energy gone replaced with fatigue, shortness of breath, feeling clumsy , and a bit depressed!
I never heard that 73 too old for ablation.
I heard that better to ablate sooner than later though.
Maybe change docs?
I am learning to take one day at a time and to slow down which is hard for me to do.
I also am asking others to help more than I did in the past.
I am fearful of stroke so am taking Eliquis and for BP/ rate control I am on Diltiazam.
I am hoping to get off Diltiazam first or at least lower it by losing weight. Hardest for me is exercise - both because I no longer enjoy it and feel a bit breathless at times.
I am open to supplements or anything to get off meds. Yet fearful of ablation too.
I am enjoying the use of “moan” from the UK friends and I am up to hear and share my own moan every now and again.
Thankful we are in this together all forum fibbers.
Read Natural alternatives for Afib. Taking certain supplements like Magnesium Taurate and Glycinate, Vitamin D3, Vitamin C, Wild Alaskan salmon oil, CoQ10 and Hawthorn Berry may help you get off of drugs and back into NSR. It takes approximately 8-10 weeks to show benefits but I believe worth the wait. Good Luck!
I am not familiar with Diltiazam. I have been on Eliquis and taking these supplements and my EP/Cardiologist told me to keep taking them because I was fine and it worked. Most doctors prefer you take the meds because there weren't enough trials or data on supplements. I chose to conduct a personal trial.
I live in New York so Costco is near me. I buy some of Costco brands for the wild Alaskan fish oil, Vitamin D3, Vitamin C, and Co-Q10, but not the other Magnesium or Hawthorn Berry. The Magnesium Supplements I buy is from Amazon called Dr.'s Best high absorption Magnesium 100% Chelated and Rhythm's Triple Calm Magnesium, and Swanson Hawthorn Berry. Vitamin D3 must be taken with fat since it is fat soluble. You only absorb about 40-60% of Magnesium and the rest is lost in urine. That is why many people are deficient in magnesium. If you research the article on Supplements, it will provide you with amounts. I took it 3 times per day until the NSR kicked in 8 weeks later. Then I reduced to normal dosage twice per day for maintenance.
I'm 82 and I just had ABLATION yesterday, Monday, I feel fine! In fact, I've never felt so good, For a very long time. Yes, I'm also on Eliquis. Vitamin D3 Alaskan salmon. Magnesium vitamin C . Diltiazam 120MG over the years I don't remember how long. The Eliquis have been known about five years. I had the flooders. About 40 years ago. They didn't know what it was at that time. So I didn't know how to treat it. Tell me not to worry about it. Which I did. And it didn't become active until. Maybe 6-7 years ago. I have high hopes. For this list procedure I had. I hope it works. Other than that, I probably go back to. Self hypnosis and start relaxing again. And start controlling myself. I used to do it many years ago. I don't even know. Like I said, I was feeling too good. I didn't need it anymore. Typical human fault.
Do you not have an Arrythmia nurse you can talk to. You could ring the hospital that did your ablation and ask to be put through. I leave a message and eventually get a chat.
At my hospital we only have access to the arrythmia nurses for 6 months from referral then signed off and can't talk to them again unless re referred, utterly stupid !
My only comment is B*ll*CKS! . I had my last ablation two years ago at 74 and my EP has not ruled out another if needed . Maybe you need to be proactive and bang some desks.
Well it is under pressure but I have had excellent care from my local hospital - once I saw the right doctor. You choose which consultant you want to see and get your GP to refer you. There maybe a wait for sure but if you can afford £200-£300 you could get a private consultation which is what many of us have done.
I'm in the USA. We have insurance plans here. Medicare for us over 65. It depends on what insurance you can afford here. The better the insurance plan you have the better care you receive. And nowadays the insurance companies control what treatments and meds you can have. Not the Drs. The good Drs used to fight against the insurance companies for the patients. Not anymore. I know a handful of people whose Drs are retiring early because they are tired of dealing with the insurance companies. I used to have faith in going to the Dr. Not anymore. The insurance companies tell them how long they can spend with the patient. The insurance I can afford only allows for 15 minutes. By the time the assistant takes your vitals and then wait for the Dr to see you, lucky if you get 7 minutes with the Dr. One Dr actually pushed me out the door as I was talking. I no longer feel like a patient. I feel like a victim. Like I don't matter. Some on here will disagree with me. But I suppose they have better insurance than I do. 🙄 The other pandemic I see is the decline in good health care around the world. I do hope you get can find some help. 🙏
Your experiences with Dr's and insurance is unacceptable; you do make valid points. Coverage does depend on what supplemental insurance plan you have. I have Medicare and Cigna surround (supplemental coverage) and pay for the premium supplemental coverage. But, there is no problem getting treatment from the specialists I choose. For example, I am scheduled for an ablation at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, even though I live 1000 miles away (in Florida). Not being satisfied with the EP in Florida, I chose an EP out of my immediate geography and found one of the top EP's in the country at Hopkins. The attention I received and speed of engagement by Hopkins staff ( and the EP) was impressive. My ablation was scheduled within 2 weeks of reaching out to Hopkins. No insurance issues - Medicare covers the initial and Cigna covers the deductible. While Medicare is very good and provides lots of flexibility, it only covers 80%. Thus, your flexibility and cost ultimately depends on what supplemental coverage insurance you have.
P.S. I've been there with getting pills and sending me on my way, which is why I took more aggressive action in my treatment regime, as mentioned above.
Wishing you the best of luck with your Afib treatment.
I am one with limited income. I can't afford supplemental insurance. So I have an HMO. And HMOs are basically socialized medicine. And it seems the bottom of the barrel Drs are mostly the ones who accept HMO. It is what it is. I just live life the best I can. Thanks. Take care.
I was told my GP when chasing my possibly rejected referral that at my age 72 rate was more important that rythm.After much persistence & my constant insistence that I have turned from a fit active person into someone who could so easily Just give up & vegetate I finally have been put on a waiting list for Cardioversion.Quite disappointed that the queue of people in front of me keeps growing but I keep thinking there are people worse off than me need my place.Yes I am feeling down too.
I do know how you feel Dorchen. There is a horrible disconnect between what sufferers feel with Afib and how the medical profession view it. The thing is, it's a very common condition, especially in older people, and it isn't generally dangerous once the issue of likelihood of stroke is addressed. After offering ablation there's nothing really for the medics to get their teeth into. It's more about management than treatment.On the other hand, we feel rotten, our medications make us worse, and the whole thing is hugely misunderstood by many patients who, because they know it is heart related, panic and believe they are sure to die.
Add to all of that a health service which was groaning before the pandemic and is now all but totally broken and there is a perfect storm which has brewed.
In turn the medical profession can't understand what all our fuss is about when they are also dealing with patients having conditions with greater risk of early death.
I think that if you have concerns you should continue to press for advice and treatment, but otherwise I think there's no help for it but to get on and try to manage it as best we can.
Definitely not too old. At least in the states, they are ablating people in their 90's. The fact that you stayed in NSR for a year after cardioversion shows further treatment may be helpful. The real key to this disease (and many other chronic illnesses) is finding the right doctor (an EP in the case of AFib).
I am an 87year old female living in Australia. I was diagnosed five years ago and have gradually become housebound, apart from that my story is very much like yours certainly my feelings are the same . Waking each morning to another day to get through I console myself with the thought that many people have worse things to contend with. Chin up and do the best you can.
I am in Australia and must say, that over the last 9 years , when AF raised its ugly head, specialist care has always been very good. Initially classified as paroxysmal and medication controlled. But, over the years I found that Fleconide just did not agree with me and I felt the treatment was worse than the AF. In January this year, I had my first ablation at the age of 77 yrs. and a second one followed in July. My usual cardiologist, and the EP he referred me to never thought at any stage, that I was too old, and have been encouraging and helpful.
Mine is paroxysmal but is more frequent and lasts longer.
I have read that low Vitamin D3 and electrolyte imbalance (low potassium and magnesium) could play a role, and some claim to have "cured" their AFib by also taking daily a supplement called "Natto" (fermented soya beans), or "Nattokinase" as a pill or powder.
We must try everything !
Don't lose heart and don't be over-anxious.
AFib can be debilitating, but in my case also brought on by second-guessing the next episode...
Nattokinase is a substitute for pharmaceutical anticoagulants. Most Drs don't know about it nor care to find out. People have to do their own research. I do know people on this forum who use it. I do as I could not tolerate any of the prescription drugs.
Can I ask what dose Nattokinase?I started about a week ago and am on 100mg (2,000 FU), once a day.
I also take daily vitamin D3 (5,000 IE), which also includes 100 Mcg vitamin K2 (MK7 format) to counter the free calcium from attaching to the heart and blood vessels.
I've read that the DOACs can cause clotting or bleeding also. I think everyone has to choose what they think is right for them. Nothing is 100% risk free. I agree with Auriculaire. Wouldn't take both together. Hope you find your solution. Take care.
Saul...I am 70 years old. I also believe electrolyte issues and low magnesium play a role in Afib and some of those supplements worked for me! I encourage everyone to check out Natural Supplements for Afib.
Hello lovely lady. I'm so sad you feel this way. I cant believe they think you are too old to have an ablation. Maybe you have other health issues that make it difficult to have an ablation? Do you have an arrhythmia nurse you can talk to about this? They can be a great source of information and help. Can you talk to your GP and tell them how this is affected you? (Not always easy I know). I'm so glad you have reached out on here. I hope you get the support you need as this site has amazing people on it with so much experience. We all need a moan now and again, dont worry about that. I hope you get some reassurance very soon.
Clearly we are all different both in the way that AF afflicts us and how we deal with it.I'm 74 and have had AF for more than 15 years. I've had at least 4 blue light trips into A and E departments, 4 ablations and 3 CV's the last of each in 2020. In addition I've experienced most of the available drugs including 18 months on Amiodarone which I have now switched to Dronedarone. I specifically focus on lifestyle including diet and supplements where I think they are necessary, and I definitely don't do stress. I am a full time farmer and additionally run a reasonably large engineering company together with my son, plus some agricultural consultancy work as well.
Whilst AF has pulled me down at times I will not let it rule my life and I take a very positive attitude to managing my condition which includes a a close relationship with a respected Cardiologist / EP on a private basis when necessary. Managing this alongside my relationship with my local GP can be challenging but with respect and professionalism on all sides I generally get to where I want to be. With my farming, engineering, consultancy work and charitable work (this month it's Movember) I need to get on and enjoy my remaining years.
Have you ever thought that part of the way you feel is due to the side effects of the medication? You didn't mention if or what drugs you were taking, but depression is a side effect of many of these drugs. If you want to feel like you're not on the bottom rung, I had cardioversion 2 weeks ago and it lasted 4 days.
Bisoprolol can cause you to feel tired and lethargic so may be worth discussing your medications with your doctor as well as pushing for better treatment. I've learned the hard way, if we don't shout out for ourselves, no one else will.
Hi Dorchen I know from experience that past a certain age women become invisible so you have to shout very loudly to be noticed! When you are feeling ground down by exhaustion and anxiety and seemingly being written off by your doctors it is easy to believe that nothing can be done to help you. But you can get help one thing at a time. Research EPs in your area, be prepared to travel out of your local if you are not happy with your local choice, invest a few hundred pounds in your future by seeing the best EP privately and see what they say re an ablation. If an ablation isn’t possible demand a different drug regime that will make you feel less tired. I would also speak to your GP and explain your sadness maybe a short time on antidepressants could give you the boost you need to feel you can carry out the rest of your rescue plan. At 73 you are not ready to be written off just tackle the problem in stages and in the meantime try and take a short walk every day you will be amazed how nature will have a positive effect on you! We are all a great support to each other so keep checking these posts knowledge is power! Best wishes
You shouldn't have to but I found a private consultation with an electrocardiologist was £250 well spent when I was left in Afib barely able to walk and no hope of a cardioversion due to Covid. He referred me back into NHS for emergency CV and urgent ablation during lockdown. If you can afford it might be worth considering even if just to confirm your previous medical advice us correct (+which I doubt, as 73 is not old). Good luck
Sounds as if you are having the same problem as I had. My digoxin was discontinued because of severe stomach problems, the bisoprolol because it makes me depressed. You need to go and see your doctor for a medicine change. I now take Verapamil . Still have side effects, but mental state is much better.
I went to see an EP privately, and that was a massive help. He arranged for NHS treatment. I have friends who had an ablation at your age, but obviously don't know the state of your heart or other reasons they don't want to do this.
I am not getting further treatment at the moment as I refused to take Amiodarone and am now considered permanent. My symptoms are not too bad although I do get tired and mustn't get excited or agitated. Like you, I feel abandoned! EP has signed me off, only time I hear from the doctors is every 6 months, when I am asked to send in a week's blood pressure readings. These days you have to make a nuisance of yourself when things are not right.
If you can afford it, find an EP on line and pay for an appointment. I rang up and saw mine within a few days.
Aw I’m so sorry to hear you feel like that. It’s much the same where I live, nobody ever followed up my diagnosis, and was never referred to an arrhythmia nurse. However it might be an idea to get in touch with your GP, and let him/her know how bad you’re really feeling, and that you would like something done about it. I think these days you have to bang the drum to get the attention you need. Good luck.
Hello DorchenI think I know what you mean. And figbar....all of those symptoms are very familiar, especially since developing underactivd thyroid.
When I was first diagnosed in my late 20s I had the experience of being (my words) fobbed off.
I actually feel things have improved for me in terms of medical care, maybe since my condition has deteriorated, or.. maybe due to improvements in understanding AF.
I'm 46 now and very much hoping I'm not on any scrap heap. I am very frustrated with going down treatment routes that lead to other complications, but that's another story. Ablation next year most likely next step.
Wishing you well Dorchen.
And I think a good moan is very therapeutic. I think sometimes people feel a kind of pressure to stay ( and sound) positive but a good moan is healthy and can help you let things go.
This is an awful situation for you. I’m 65 and my GP said at the beginning ‘We don’t tend to do much about this condition. Did you know that thousands of people have it and don’t even know?’ I insisted on speaking to another GP and having hospital appointments.
You have to push and even if that’s not really in your character to be this way, really you have to!!
Hi Dorchen You are really having a tough time. I have had atrial flutter and fib for 2 to 3 years. I was initially put on biprosal (made me v tired and prone to faints- lowered my blood pressure too much.) I was also given flecanide which had no effect and have ended up in hospital a few times because of a high heart rate. I think my afib is related to many years of a chronic sleep condition. Now I just muddle along. A cardiologist advised me that he thought my tiredness was caused by something else, not the a fib, and advised against an ablation. Lately the a fib/flutter has been less bothersome and swings more between the lower levels. Yesterday when out I nearly passed out when my heart was swinging between 39 and 100. Not very high (it can go up to 170) but the variation is more unpleasant than a constant high rate. Someone gave me a chair and some water while I recovered. I take blood thinners everyday but cannot help wondering if they cause any side effects! I am due an ecg again soon but one doctor advised that one just lives with it. Best of luck in pursing any treatment - there may be some thing out there that will help you.
Hi, I’m not medically trained but info from here suggests Sick Sinus Syndrome if your rates are so variable. I have a mild version and can’t take much medication because my heart pauses occasionally. Drs who are not up to speed assume AF is a condition that older people have to live with but you shouldn’t accept that - if all else fails you can have ‘pace and ablate’ - a pacemaker keeps your HR steady and you don’t feel the AF so much 💜
Hi Buffafly Thanks for your reply. Never heard of this before but I certainly have most of the symptoms. I shall ask the cardiac nurse about it when I have my next ecg.
Dorchen .. try this carrafibdietinfo.com/ .. I must say, so far it has made a huge difference for me ... had 1000 ectopic per day over last 6 months .. have very few now. And it worked very quickly. I felt a difference within a week.
You don't say how frequent your AFib is but maybe look at the drugs you are taking. They may not suit you. I had an awful time trying different drugs all of which made me very ill. In the end i just have a PIP and Warfarin. We are all different but you have to take control of your condition and tell the medics exactly how you feel. As the Pharmacist at Boots told me - the drugs should be making me feel better not worse. If you feel tired and ill, you are going to get depressed. You shouldn't have to feel like that. You can have a good quality of life with this if you do not let it define who you are. Go back and get some help. Wishing you well.
You are definitely not too old for an ablation but, like others above, I would recommend you to push for alternative medication. I was once put on bisoprolol and it made me feel so ill I couldn’t cope at all. I’m now on an anti-arrhythmia drug and feel pretty much back to normal. It would be worth every penny of a private appointment with an electrophysiologist if you can manage that.
I am outraged at what you have been told, it it only goes to show the huge disparity in opinion between doctors and consultants in their views on AF. I was told that age was absolutely no barrier in ablation (SW London, Hammersmith Hospital). Please investigate other routes; a full and frank discussion with your GP about how you feel, a private consultation (if possible) with a different EP (many on the forum have done this and been transferred onto the EP's NHS waiting list). Come back and let us know how you are and how you get on, we are all thinking of you.
Hello Dorchen, I am sorry to read of your AF issues and I strongly disagree with the view that you are too old to have an ablation!
My PAF had been kept in check for 15 years with Flecainide, Propranolol and Aspirin. I was not aware of any significant side effects while taking this medication. I did notice increasing breathlessness which I attributed to the aging process and insufficient exercise. Flecainide worked well for me until I reached 67 years, when the frequency of attacks increased to 2 or 3 times a week. 24/48 hour ECG recorders somehow never managed to capture an event!
In desperation, I got myself a Kardia ECG device to record AF events and arranged a private EP consultation (approx £250). I was able to show the consultant Kardia printouts which he described as being of diagnostic quality. After doing an echocardiogram, he put me on his NHS waiting list for an ablation three months later, which has proved successful so far.
I no longer take Flecainide or Propranolol and Aspirin has been replaced by Eliquis. I am more active than I was prior to ablation and am convinced that my breathlessness was largely due to medication. From what I have read, Bisoprolol doesn't work for everyone.
Hi Dorchen. Sorry you are feeling neglected. I know in this COVID times it seems all medical people are busy and seem like they don’t care. I have noticed it also. As far as being too old to have ablation at 73, I am female and 79 in Jan. I have had 3 and last one was 4 yrs ago . It finally worked for me pretty well, although I still have a few minor attacks, however still on meds, which tire me. Don’t ever give up, it will be better days ahead. I have a great spouse that always encourages me to live my life and we do.
I feel very very lucky that I am alive and that I had all the cardio versions, ablations , brain surgeries etc. That I have had over the last 19 years.
I am so thankful to the many doctors and nurses that have kept me alive here in Canada, they are my hero’s, I enjoy (watching sports) music, the arts, but those persons are only my ( hollow) heros.
Have faith in your medical persons, even if you need to search for different people to help you medically.
Push yourself to not be sad today, with the help of a spouse or someone close to you.
Dorchen, you're definitely not too old for an ablation. Can you change doctors? Can you bypass your regular doctor and contact someone above him for answers? I feel for you -- get angry and make them do their job!
Oh yes, I understand that completely! When I told my first electrophysiologist that stress was a big factor in my a-fib episodes, he practically laughed in my face. I eventually fired him for that and other reasons. I do hope you can look into finding someone else who'll take you seriously.
I totally agree with you. My own care has been, frankly, rubbish, I can't talk to a cardiologist until they want to talk to me and messages left for them are ignored. I had a referral to an EP but no details of my condition or any of my notes were not sent to him. Not surprisingly the telephone conversation didn't go very well. The GP's at my surgery simply don't want to get involved now that they've farmed me off to the local hospital. As an example of their "caring2, I'm about to change from warfarin to apixaban and the cardiologist wrote to the GP practice and said that he had no objections to the change and stated "Apixaban in 5mg doses twice a day but not before four weeks after my last cardioversion". Three weeks after the CV I contacted one of the GP's to request a change to my prescription and also to get advice on managing the changeover. The GP refused to do anything on the grounds that the cardiologists letter wasn't clear enough for him in terms of what was expected of him. I told him that I'd try to get the cardiologist to write to him again but doubted that he'd be able to explian without using words of more than one sylable!
I think that the last time I saw a GP F2F was about 3 years ago, just before being confirmed as having AFib. The rest have all been telephone consultations whilst the GP's sit in their patient proof bunker. I've even been refused a telephone consult by a receptionist on the grounds that "my need isn't urgent enough". The consultant cardiologist assigned to oversee my treatment has spoken to me once on the phone and he was rude, lecturing and contradicted everything that other doctors, the BHF and the AFib A told e about AFib. All other consults have been on the phone with his registrars. I've never had an explanation of the test results, my treatment or prognosis and the letters that are written to my GP practice are 50% accurate at best as a record of our phone conversation. The Nothing Happens Soon is in no way fit for purpose.
Hi , I am chasing my GP as my blood pressure is not good , swollen legs and feeling dizzy. Got a chest infection at moment but they don’t deal with more than one problem. If it is not resolved I will put in an official complaint. Sad state of affairs
I am sorry the medical profession has made you feel this way. A change of doctors might help. I don't know how your system works. In the US we can change doctors and folks do all the time. I just got rid of a specialist I detested. Never gave me test results. Never talked after procedures. Endoscopy, colonoscopy and small bowel series..Wants to scope again. Medicare won't pay as there was nothing really found. Another doctor thinks my anemia is from kidney problems. Red cells destroyed and anemia results. I had to beg for an iron infusion and am now feeling so much better. My afib seems controlled with oral med amioderone for now. My insurance company thinks a doctor change would benefit me. They just soft pedal it as a professional courtesy to each other. Meanwhile I got a doc that wants another scope. Sometimes we must become proactive in our care. I'm 72 years old. You feel abandoned by the medical profession. Please try to get what we call a primary doctor that cares. I had the same thing here and I said enough. A change could make all the difference.
I am sorry you are feeling poorly. I can say that you need a new doctor though. My friend is 83 and just had his second ablation (done by my doctor). 73 is certainly not too old. Afib can be annoying and scary at times. I have felt the same as you many times. Hopefully you can find a better doctor.
I’m so sorry you’re feeling sad. I was in continuous AFib after a HA. I’ve been in sinus rhythm since cardio version 3 weeks ago. I will never take sinus rhythm for granted ever again and know AFib can come back anytime. Now I’m in sinus rhythm I understand that continuous inner noise and chaos that AFib gives you and unless you’ve experienced that you can’t understand the effects it can have on a person 24/7. Relentless incessant inner noise and physically hard. I can understand it can bring people down and depressed. You’re GP should be able to refer you for counselling it could help you with coping strategies. I’m 59 but when I had my cardio version a man there was having his 3rd. He’s 75. The previous 2 had given him good chunks of time out of AFib. I’m still having brown days/times as I call them with all my heart stuff going on- not totally black- so I’m seeking counselling and looking for things to stop them becoming black. It’s worth a try. X
Those meds are awful. Worse than AF for some. I was told by a hospital doctor that digoxin is only suitable for people who aren’t active but of course if you take it it is difficult to be active! Bisoprolol is bad for anyone with breathing problems of any kind. I was worried by the ‘swollen legs and dizzy’ comment, if it gets any worse head for A&E 💜
Definitely diagnosed 18 months ago not seen cardiologist or dr for follow ups got 1st gp app since pre covid got app with gp next week but only due to being diagnosed with cancer 2 weeks ago but had been trying to get app to discuss a fib meds for 12 months bisoprolol apixiban not sure if dosage is correct only discovered cancer after no avail app for so long went to a/ e on advice from Pharmacist McMillan nurse phoned gp n suddenly got app !!
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