Pulse Watches/Devices & Afib

[willec49]

Are pulse-emitting watches/devices like Smart Watches and Apple Watches safe for Afib and other arrythmia-related/heart issues? I'm thinking of getting an Apple Watch which performs ECG's, Oxygen saturation tests, Sleep/Apnea-related functioning, etc.

[CDreamer]

Not sure how you could think they are not ‘safe’? They work by pulse green light technology, they won’t affect AF.

Having worn several versions for the last 5 years I would say they are excellent at showing trends but certainly not accurate enough for O2 sats or HR - I get one off very weird readings which I ignore. (I have had COVID recently & had to record my O2 sats with a clinical oximeter & simultaneous readings often differed by up 3-4 points). If the strap is too loose or too tight you won’t get an O2 reading or if watch slips down your wrist so I completely ignore the night time readings as they are often show readings below 80 - as my SA is treated by CPAP I just don’t believe those readings - neither do my doctors.

Certainly wouldn’t diagnose sleep apnea - you need about £10k’s worth of monitoring equipment. The sleep Apps work on movement - but it will give a reasonable analysis of how many hours you slept for & some indication of how deep the sleep was but expect an error % of about 20% - comment by my sleep physiologist.

ECGs are reasonable but not nearly as clear as the Kardia.

The great advantage is as a wearable it will show trends & is always available.

I love my iWatch but more for features other than O2 sats, ECG & Sleep analysis.

[willec49 in reply to CDreamer]

Thanks for your response to my question and I appreciate all the information you impart here from your own direct, personal experience with the Apple Watch. Since I already have a 6-lead Kardia, Pedometer, and an Oximeter, I wouldn't need it for those purposes. And, since it wouldn't tell me if I stopped breathing while asleep, I can check that function also from my list. I will consider its other functions like being paired to my iPhone 13 Pro Max, fitness tracker, etc. I am looking at the latest Apple Watch 7 Series which does have features some of the earlier models don't. My main concern was the compatibility and safety with heart arrythmias, so I appreciate the reassurance on that issue.

[beach_bum in reply to willec49]

Mine is a series 5 and according to my doc is quite accurate. I also sadly had 7 hrs of laying on a gurney alternatively staring at the hospital monitor and my watch 😋 the series 6 and 7 have updated optical HR and O2 sensors, but mine does what I need it to do...AND tells time *tip of the day* hold 2 fingers on the watch face and it will read you the time. 👍...and if you want to give the grandkids a giggle chose the Micky or Mini Mouse or Toy Story face and it reads it in the Characters voice 😎

[willec49 in reply to beach_bum]

Thanks for your response which is very helpful and encouraging. I hope your time on the gurney was helpful and successful and that you are doing well.

[Suesouth in reply to willec49]

I have the Apple Watch series 5, but Arrythmia nurse told me cardiologist will only accept information from a cardia mobile! Although I do find ECG from the watch, accurate, it gave same reading as paramedics….

[willec49 in reply to Suesouth]

Thank you. That's good to know. I know the later versions of the watch have added features and perhaps greater accuracy.

[Poochmom in reply to Suesouth]

I agree. My watch gives accurate readings but I have read the new Kardia can detect other arrhythmia so I ordered that one as well. Between the two should be able to track nicely!

[willec49 in reply to Poochmom]

Yes, the 6-level readout on that Kardia is great. It even told me I had a wide QT interval which I was able to transmit to my Cardiologist via the app.

[Poochmom in reply to willec49]

That’s what I’m looking forward to. I appear to have a new arrhythmia so hoping to see what that is.

[fairgo45 in reply to Poochmom]

I'm looking for a watch that tells me when I have afib takes a trace and still gives me sleep data and health data and not an apple watch has anyone tried fitbit sense ?

[Jfbould1 in reply to CDreamer]

Hi CDreamer, I’m here looking at your comment because I have been told one cause of my afib could be sleep apnea. I remember reading that the Apple Watch could detect apnea and I just read an article mobihealthnews.com/content/... that the Apple Watch coupled with the Cardiograms AI analysis could detect sleep apnea. Just wondering if you were aware and had any thought about it?

As you’re one of the go-to commenters here, I’d appreciate your perspective if you have one.

[CDreamer in reply to Jfbould1]

Hi - it’s kind of you to hold me in such regard, not sure that I warrant it and I’m no expert but I offer an opinion based on my own experience.

Unfortunately the link you gave did not work for me ‘page not found’ so I don’t know what it said.

I have iWatch6 - I’m very happy with it and gives me a lot of information but I wouldn’t rely upon it for a diagnosis of Sleep Apnea. It may indicate that as a possibility based on tracking HR variations at night and O2 sats, which the iWatch detects - some other watches may also but my experience is only with iWatch. One thing I found very annoying was that to measure O2 the green light flashes about every 10 mins and on the older models, if I moved in my sleep the whole face then lit up which disturbed my sleep - not helpful - later models have a setting so you can switch onto Night Mode so nothing lights up unless you tap the face. I also get some really strange extreme spikes - I’ve learned to completely disregard those as these could be caused by a number of things, most likely the watch slipping on my wrist so know that there can be a significant error rate on the readings if things are not absolutely perfect.

What the watch is very good at is giving consistent information over a period allowing you to work out good averages - my current sleep is about 85-95% - that equates to minimum 6 hours per night, 7-8 on a good night of good quality sleep and you can see HR staying stable. HURRAH! My O2 average is now 90-95 - happy with that.

When I was diagnosed with SA back in 2014? ish, it was because my AF was mostly nocturnal and so I asked for SA assessment. The kit the Physiologists at the Clinical Measurements use to diagnose is very comprehensive and you are hooked up to wires and mobile device - it’s about £10K worth of kit - (iWatch from about £300?) tracks breathing rate, O2, HR and movement and a whole lot more - very accurately.

Most of the watches do a sleep analysis mostly based on movement and the more up to date have the AI algorithms so can do probabilities, based on O2 and HR and movement.

I talked to the Physiologist a few months ago and they thought that although the modern smart watches were good and could probably help indicate sleep issues - there would be too large an error rate (something in the order of 20%) for a definitive diagnosis. That could mean a huge error margin if you had mild or very severe sleep apnea.

What the sleep analysis revealed was that my breath pauses were up to 11-15 per hour, my O2 sats dropped to about 82-92, HR rate then increased which triggered AF. Treatment with CPAP stopped all nocturnal AF.

Hope that helps.

[Jfbould1 in reply to CDreamer]

Thanks very much, CDreamer. Sorry about the link, but you’ve already got the gist of how the technology is being used to infer SA. It seems there are multiple other benefits to buying the watch to make managing things more data-driven. Greatly appreciate your response. All the best.

[Hidden]

Hi willec49, Please don't hesitate to contact AF Association for support & information should you need it: [e-mail] / 01789 867 502

[willec49 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you very much.

[Japaholic]

I have an Apple Watch (2020 SE) and credit it with helping me lose 10kg in weight. It’s really helped me know end. It doesn’t do EKG like the more expensive ones but it does notify me of an arythmia.

[willec49 in reply to Japaholic]

Thank you so much. That's good to know. I am seriously considering getting the new 7 Series.

[Elli86]

Hi willec.

I’ve had the new Apple Watch 6 since jan and it’s superb. I’ve checked it against taking my own pulse so many times now and it’s spot on every time. So in terms of accuracy for hr it’s brilliant.

Ecg is superb as well, so good in fact every doctor, EP or cardio I’ve dealt with will accept it as an accurate reading of what my hearts doing and sharing it with them is so simple to do through the app. Obviously not as in depth as a 6 lead but what do you expect from a watch? Won’t be long before Apple make it even more in depth and also add some sort of bp monitor.

In terms of the sleep and o2 level checkers, I’m not sold on either and don’t use them to be honest. Sleep tracker is massively unreliable but doesn’t bother me as I didn’t buy it for that. Would be nice if it was more accurate but hey ho. O2 level checker I’ve got no idea if is accurate so don’t bother using it at all.

Fitness tracker superb and has tons of features to keep you on the move and give you a good reference for how far you’ve walked/run and exercised in general over the previous weeks/months.

You then have the other features which again I didn’t buy it for but are handy. Such as the messages/phone calls so you can see who’s sent without needing to bother getting your phone out if not important, Siri on wrist to set timers and reminders on your wrist. Silent alarms which just vibrates to wake you up gently and silently so you don’t disturb the Mrs etc.

Overall a superb watch for what I need and will definitely have one from this point onwards as tech will only get better and better. Well worth the money and more 👍

[willec49 in reply to Elli86]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with the watch. I'm glad to hear it is working so well for you. I do have a Kardia 6-track, an oximeter, blood pressure machine, etc. and was looking to see if it could provide some feedback on my sleep as I was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea two years ago but have dropped 55 lbs. since then and think all that is much improved.

I wish you ongoing positive results and good health.

[Elli86 in reply to willec49]

Oh right 🤣 well in that case I couldn’t recommend it to be honest. Quite frankly it’s utterly rubbish at knowing if I’m asleep or not. I have no idea why it’s so poor but I can blatantly get up for an hour in the night and unless I turn my phone on it won’t know I’m awake. Terrible as a sleep tracker in my opinion but maybe one of the additional apps you can get to accompany it may be better?

Congrats on the weight loss by the way. Good going 👍

[willec49 in reply to Elli86]

That's good to know as that is something I'm looking for. I get up at last three times every night to use the loo. Thanks!