Sleep and AF

[mjm1971]

Ok so I’ve read that sleep and rest is important !

But how much is needed and surely that’s so individual it’s impossible to say ?

I get 6.5 to 7 hours a night …..

[BobD Volunteer]

As you say very individual . For about twenty years when we were running a race team and I still had a full time job I averaged about 4 hours a night so maybe that is why I got AF . Who knows? I was, however, always able to cat nap even standing on the train. I was also usually ill every October when the season ended and the adrenaline stopped flowing so not a good recomendation .

Personally I think good hydration is the most important thing after stress reduction.

I would be happy with 7 hours a night these days if ever.

[Jetcat in reply to BobD]

Wow… just 4 hours Bob.!! I wish I could get by on less as I’m the total opposite I need more sleep than a Hibernating hedgehog.! Always been the same and it’s rather annoying at times.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Jetcat]

Want something done give it to a busy person. Adrenaline keeps you alert and in those days a cigarette every ten miles when driving the van to race meetings worked wonders. Can't do it at my age now but happy memories. (gave up the weed in '82).

[Jetcat in reply to BobD]

I love your replies bob. 👍 top man.

[Hidden]

Hiya,I have been bus driving for some 29 years. I have had AF 11 years. The earlier 18 years I worked full time and had some very weird shift patterns. These shift patterns did absolutely nothing for my 'healthy sleep' requirements. The result is that I would be fortunate, today, to get 6.5 to 8 hours BROKEN sleep each night. But not regularly each night. Sometimes I might get 8 hours continuous sleep and I wake up feeling quite refreshed and wondering what the hell happened there, other times I might get 6.5 hrs broken sleep and wake up feeling normal !

I still drive buses but nowadays only part time and my employer is kind enough to structure my shifts for me. If AF mugs me, maybe only 3 times a year it can be at night but that I feel is more due to a food misadventure. If AF mugs me in the day I would be more inclined to attribute it to a dodgy sleep night. However, I can get spells of irregular heart beats at any time but they don't convert into full blown AF.

😊On balance AF is what it is and if IT FEELS LIKE mugging me it'll have its own wicked way regardless. Sleep though, or lack of healthy sleep seems like to remain with me well into the future.

My GP is young, maybe mid to late 30's and is very science and evidence based. I have now a good relationship with her. She knows if I phone then its a real problem, she also knows that I have hardcore statistics to back up whatever issues are lurking. I just don't wanna go down the sleep analysis route which I know she would organise. I have two trackers, one represents all that was available at the time I bought it so is therefore of limited use ( it focuses on daily activities like, running, jogging, cycling and associated other workouts which are beyond me as well as HR and sleep ) but in terms of sleep its of limited use. I have now invested in another tracker, a ring, and this really zeros in on sleep and how sleep can work with me on my daytime activities including HRV values, resting HR ( when I do actually sleep) and it produces ongoing mini reports all day on your status - I'm still learning what this product will do.

Just a thought though ..... is there any other soul on here who has AF, sleep issues and who is or was in a past life .... a shift worker ?

John

[Snookersteve in reply to Hidden]

Hi John, could you possibly advise the name of this sleep tracker, which you mention as a ring? It sounds interesting from your description. Thanks, Steve

[cbaum in reply to Hidden]

Hi Carneuny! Yes, I was in the Navy and did 4 on and 8 off as well as 6 on and 18 off and 6 on and 12 off. I now have AFIB, sleep apnea, and epilepsy. My kids also think I’m batty, and I happily return them the compliment. My sleep apnea is called “central” not “obstructive” which means it is nerve related and not caused by blocked breathing passages. I am being treated for sleep apnea with a continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) machine which does some good but apparently not enough. I never have a night when I’ve had fewer than 5 wakings an hour but that’s better than the 30 wakings an hour without the CPAP machine. The sleep doctor doesn’t know why the CPAP machine helps with a nervous condition but it apparently does. The doctors agree that apnea and AFIB may be related. I also have an implanted loop recorder which tells the cardiologist I have a lot of AFIB. Neither cardiologist nor sleep doctor is happy with my condition and I go see both this week. I have bouts of zero energy and often wake from a night’s “sleep” wanting to take a nap. I had a “maze” procedure in 2017 and take 100 mg of metoprolol once daily. Sorry to go on so long, but you asked! Chris

[Hidden in reply to cbaum]

Hi Chris,

Reading your post and details of Navy life I think I'll shut up about a bus drivers life and working hours. To be honest I have thought about getting a sleep analysis done, but then put it on the back burner because I felt there was nothing to be gained until the osteoarthritic pain was eliminated. Working on that. The rare nights when I am pain free I almost always have a great nights sleep.

Don't apologise. The great thing about this forum is how a post, sometimes small and sometimes long can trigger responses which usually generate information of value - in one way shape or form.

John

[DutchCloud in reply to Hidden]

Yes, working at night for ten years in a mental crisis unit; 3 nights in a row, 3days days off; studying then during day time, slept only 4 hours since I can remember, I didn’t care because I felt okay and thought ‘ that sleeping is wasting time’ ; how wrong I was; even though after my study when I became a stress and burnout psychologist I realized that my own health was in stake; trying to change my day-night bio ritme, cost me ten years, a sleep apnea etc..now PAF 2 times; later in my career I trained lots of people, nurses, policemen, teachers, and I learned that the workaholics - also myself-are the best employees for the company but they pay a price sooner or later; now my sleeping patterns are much better, mild apneu etc. Never regrets what I did but warning my children to keep a good work-relax balance in life; western society habits are good for the booming economy but not for the health of working men and women who sooner or later pay a price with their health...

[Hidden in reply to DutchCloud]

Hiya DutchCloud,

Yeah, well I can easily identify with your post. My early days of bus driving were in Sydney and so I loved night work as in summer it was cooler. However, my employers wouldn't guarantee me permanent night work so it was a case of rotating through different lines of work and taking the good and the bad.

The disturbing feature was over a 7 day period working several types of shifts, i.e. coming off nights at 00.30 hrs, going home and back on shift again at say, 13.00 hrs then finish at 21.00 hrs then home, rest day next day, then start days at 05.30 hrs and finish at 15.00 hrs that afternoon. The body clock never stood a chance. But I thought I was immortal back in the day .... different story now ! ☹☹

John

[CDreamer]

I think it also depends upon the quality. 6.5 hours of good quality, no waking sleep does a lot more for me than 8 hours when I’ve woken and had to go to the bathroom.

I also think stress management is as important - simply because it also affects sleep quality.

It’s not impossible to say - SO much research on the affects of having less than 7 hours sleep - read Why we Sleep - Matthew Walker and if you need any more encouragement to ENSURE you get at least 7 hours look at the links between Alzheimer’s and poor sleep.

Your body isn’t able to do the maintenance required with less than 7 hours - you will survive but not thrive. If you want 7 hours sleep you need to schedule at least 8 hours in bed.

I had very good support in getting 7-8 hours sleep from sleep clinic - diagnosis of Sleep Apnea - now treated and help with SCBT which is behavioural therapy for sleep. No more brain fog, waking feeling refreshed and not having to nap during the day - those for me are the key indicators - if you feel sleep during the day then you aren’t getting enough sleep at night.

ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Pat...

[Auriculaire in reply to CDreamer]

I am a bit suspicious of all this research that says we need 7-8hours of good quality sleep at night. It seems to me to be very anglo saxon and last 50/70 years orientated, ignoring the patterns of living maintained over centuries by cultures in hot lands where the sensible thing was to sleep for 2/3 hours in the afternoon during the hottest part of the day and less at night. I have read that there is evidence that in medieval times it was normal to not sleep throughout the night but in two chunks separated by a period of activity. I tend to think that the current advice is there to bolster the work obsessed American system of being at your workplace really early in the morning after a run or gym session so as to maximise your productivity. Despite the fact that whether we are larks or owls tends to be genetic the research often also tends to imply that the sleep practices of owls are unhealthy and should be modified when really society should take into consideration different sleep patterns and not try to force/ nudge everyone into the same mould.

[DutchCloud in reply to Auriculaire]

Totally agree❗️

[KMRobbo]

I burned the candle at both ends for years with job that involved travelling within Europe. I eventually realised that GOOD sleep was important, but had probably already damaged myself in the meanwhile. Cant say my Afib was owing to this but it probably did not help! CDreamers recommendation is a good one: read "Why we Sleep "- Matthew Walker . It will open your eyes.

[secondtry]

I think we all know when we have had sufficient sleep. Last night for instance, I had 8hrs with one bathroom break, which is unusually good for me and I am feeling great; anything less is just 'OK', so not sufficient. My sleep pattern is variable from 5-8hrs with 1-3 bathroom breaks. I have been slowly improving this with Lifestyle changes and nasal & mouth strips at night.

[10gingercats]

I have had insomnia for most of this year.When attending hospital just this week spoke to doc. about the insomnia and he said that in the summer most people sleep less and 'that is ok'.Meaning i think that your health will not suffer in the short term in 5/6 hours a night instead of 7/8 so long as it is not perm. But i do not feel good on 5 hours so it is not good for me. I do not daytime doze .

[RajaRua in reply to 10gingercats]

Yes 10 Gingercats I sleep for longer in the winter. up to 9 or 10 hours a night sometimes with bathroom breaks but in these bright summer nights I go to bed later and get up earlier. Getting about 6 or 7 hours a night. The sun gives us more energy I reckon as long as it's not too hot!!