Sleep Problems Due To AF

[PaulCB]

Hi. I am currently in permanent AF and am having trouble sleeping. Can anyone please suggest sleep positions or any other remedy(ies) etc that have worked for them, while in AF. I would be very grateful and am prepared to try pretty much anything! Thanks. Paul

[jeanjeannie50]

Try this, it has really helped me:

healthline.com/health/healt...

[PaulCB in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hi Jean. I certainly will, thank you kindly!

[Neilor73]

Hi Paul,

I was in two minds about posting as I'm hoping someone had a better experience than me. I pretty much gave up on the bed and slept on the chair in an upright position but then only managed 3, maybe 4, hours a night. However, I had AF induced heart failure and was getting fluid build up in my lungs which was causing me discomfort in my stomach and a cough. This went undiagnosed until I saw a consultant (in fact the doctors in A&E told me my lungs were fine). As soon as that was diagnosed I was given a diruatic which cured my sleep issues.

Hopefully, you will also get a resolution soon.

[PaulCB in reply to Neilor73]

Thank you Neil.

[Paulbounce]

Hi Paul. I had to answer another Paul !

For me sleep is very important. Since my CV I've been back in afib a couple of times - each time I was abroad and had little sleep. In someways I've taken the easy route if I can't sleep - zolpidem.

This of course is something to discuss with your doctor. However it's something to consider if all else fails. It's a short term remedy for a few days on not for everynight consumption. IMO sleep is very important for us afibbers.

Sleeping postion for me is on my front but sleeping towards (and putting pressure on) my right side. It could be psychological but it works for me.

Paul

[PaulCB in reply to Paulbounce]

Hi Paul. Thanks for your reply. I’ll try on my front and see how I get on.

[Dawsonmackay]

How about melatonin? Or more magnesium.

[PaulCB in reply to Dawsonmackay]

Hi Dawson. Thanks for your reply. Why more magnesium? What would that do?

[Paulbounce in reply to PaulCB]

It can make some some people sleepy Paul - hence some take it at night. It can make you poo as well - start on a low dose and build up until you know your limit !

Paul

Edit - that's for magnesium. Melation can aid with sleep - it helps the brain 'know it's time' to shut down. Some say it works for them and some not.

[PaulCB in reply to Paulbounce]

Thank you for the info.

[sleeksheep in reply to Paulbounce]

My personal experience with melatonin is "less is better" .

I take one 300mcg capsule 10 minutes before sleep and I wake up refreshed but when I trialed the 1mg tablet I found I was a bit fuzzy in the morning.

[irene75359 in reply to sleeksheep]

When I went to the States eighteen months ago I bought a supply of melatonin as we can't buy it over the counter here in the UK, unfortunately I didn't check the dosage. My husband often has difficulty getting to sleep and then staying asleep. He took one tablet (10mg) the first night and then literally didn't move for 12 hours. When he eventually woke up, it was as if he was drunk. Eventually, his head cleared and then he checked online and found the recommended dose was from 0.5 mg up to 3 mg. Now we have a supply that we will have to slice and dice if they are to be of any use.

[sleeksheep in reply to irene75359]

These are the ones I buy from iHerb in Australia.

ebay.co.uk/itm/Life-Extensi...?

[irene75359 in reply to sleeksheep]

Thank you for that.

[PaulCB in reply to irene75359]

Hi Irene, thanks for your reply and the information. Kind regards, Paul

[Dawsonmackay in reply to Dawsonmackay]

PaulBounce explained melatonin nicely. In terms of magnesium, that is one of the most needed minerals in the heart. When you have been taking it regularly, it is known to have a calming effect on the heart muscle...

[PaulCB in reply to Dawsonmackay]

Thanks Dawson. Magnesium has been mentioned a few times so I will check if it’s ok to take it with my medication. Thanks again, Paul

[Hidden]

I guess a lot depends on what it is that’s preventing you from sleeping. When I was first diagnosed, it was anxiety that did for me. I found it difficult to settle and my mind was in overdrive. The following suggestions came from someone on this forum and I found them very help. First avoid using any form of PC for at least an hour before bed. Drink some warm milk but avoid too much liquid to minimise the need for trips to the loo. Slightly raise the head of the bed by placing books underneath the legs. Have one pillow in the normal place then position two similar pillows in the form of an inverted V with the point towards the headboard but keep a gap at the top. The side pillows should support your arms, shoulders and head a will discourage you from wanting to thrash around. If you have a clock radio, tune into Classic FM and set the timer for 60 minutes. If your mind is still active, try listing cars, motorcycles, english counties or cities or anything else that suits in alphabetical order.....worked for me!

[PaulCB in reply to Hidden]

Hi FlapJack. Thanks for your reply. The thing that keeps me awake is not mental. It’s the feeling of nodding off but then being woken up with a feeling of struggling for breath. I’ve bought a wedge-shaped pillow to prop me up, and it’s really improved the breathing side of things. However, when I wake up, regardless of the time, I struggle to get back to sleep!

[S11m]

I had permanent AF for years, and I used to have problems getting to sleep.

Since I have fasted 20:4 for about two years, and lost five stone, I find I need less sleep.

I concluded that I was getting too much sleep - and I now use the AutoSleep app to monitor how much sleep I get, and how much I need - and I now rarely go to bed before midnight - and I set an alarm to prevent me over-sleeping past 09:30.

[Lilypocket]

Hi

I drink an infusion ( but actually it's presented as a teabag) of camomile, orange flower and lime flower. One at about 5pm and one at bedtime. I also take magnesium. And finally I listen to crime podcasts. I go to bed by 10h30 p.m. Going later seems to make it more difficult to nod off. I sleep quite quickly and the fact they are crime podcasts doesn't keep me awake 😂. I still wake in the night but my brain is not "switched on" like before and I get back to sleep quite fast.

I don't have permanent Afib however.

I hope you find a solution.

Take care X

[PaulCB in reply to Lilypocket]

Thank you, so do I!

[kkatz]

Hi Paul just a couple of ideas not kept awake by the AF but I have paroxysmal AF.I have had problems sleeping down to a couple of things.I take Adizem .if I take it late in the day I can't sleep.The other thing is as simple as a comfy bed.A mattress topper or even a quilt to pad your mattress.

Hope you find something to help.

[PaulCB in reply to kkatz]

Hi Katz. Thank you for getting back to me. I’ve had lots of good advice and will hopefully find something that works until I have my cardioversion procedure. Thanks again, Paul.

[P0rtnahapp1e]

Hi PaulCB , I have permanent AF, HF and DCM and struggled for a long time with sleep until I discovered Gibi and ASMR on YouTube.

I occasionally take zopiclone but only as a last resort.

[PaulCB in reply to P0rtnahapp1e]

Hi. Have just Googled ASMR, which I wasn’t aware of. Thank you for telling me about this. Kind regards, Paul

[P0rtnahapp1e in reply to PaulCB]

Hi Paul, I found it by accident and mentioned it to my son-in-law who is very into music and film, and he explained the science behind the technology of ASMR. It isn’t just a gimmick, but a genuine concept.

[Polski]

Magnesium helps the muscles relax. It is also good for the heart and lots of other things. I found taking it definitely improved my sleep over time, though I was taking it for the AF!

[PaulCB in reply to Polski]

Hi Polski. Thanks for getting back to me and your feedback. Taking magnesium seems to be a common theme which I will investigate, and make sure that it’s compatible with my medication. Thanks again. Paul

[Scrump]

Hi Paul, I have had similar problems in the past. You can try a meditation that I developed in my own desperation. I will try to explain. I found the anxious feeling due to the AF a big problem . Anxiety can be felt anywhere in the body but for us mostly in the chest, neck and head. Due to this our focus is there and we don’t want It their. So when laying down in bed take your attention down to just below your naval (2”below) place your hand over this place and breath making sure your hand rises on the inhale. This is important because people don’t seem to be able to breathe correctly. Slow and deep on a ratio of 4 4 5 in ,hold ,ex. Now if you could visualise a waterfall your head is the top and your naval is the the pool. So all this anxiety and AF can flow into the pool imagine your pelvis is a bottomless vessel with all the negativity and tension release letting go. So flows like a river down the centre of your body. This will need practice. Perseverance is the key. This practice does work. I hope it will help you. Keep strong.

[PaulCB in reply to Scrump]

Hi Scrump. Thank you kindly for getting back to me. I’m getting lots of good feedback and will try all of it until I find what works for me. Thank you again. Paul

[philologus]

Hello Paul.

This may seem a bit odd - but it is free so worth a try and it works for me. I sleep very well now and I don't get ectopics/palpitations any more.

Last thing, before you go to bed, spend half-an-hour sitting on a chair or standing in the garden with your bare feet on the grass/concrete. Have a nice cuppa while you do it if you want to.

It's called "Earthing" or "Grounding" and if you do some research you'll soon see how it works (I think there's a website if you google "Groundology".) but a simple explanation is that your body is an electrical unit - everything; muscles, (including your heart) brain, cells, all need electricity. Earthing yourself allows the negative charge from the earth to neutralise the excess positives you have built up in your body. You are then electrically balanced and your whole body will work better.

It might sound like "smoke and mirrors" but there is a lot of science behind it now.

If you think about it, it's what nature intended us to do. We used to be grounded most of the time - just as most creatures naturally are, (ever seen a lion with shoes on?)Then we started wearing insulated soles on our shoes, we covered our floors with lino and carpet... I'm sure you see the point.

The main thing earthing does is it reduces/eliminates inflammation.

It also makes your blood electrically balanced and that means that there is less 'clumping' - (the cells repel each other if they are properly charged) This means that it acts as a natural blood 'thinner' so if you take a blood thinner you'd need to let your Dr know that you were doing this as you might find that you can reduce your dose.

Capiliaries are so narrow that they only allow one cell through at a time. Red blood cells don't have a nucleus so this allows them to be squashed and pass through and carry oxygen and other nutrients to your body. Clumping prevents this so getting rid of the clumping means that your blood can reach your extremities better and can oxygenate you better.

Many people find that they notice that they look healthier quite quickly because of this - it puts some colour in your face.

It's free - so why not try it?

Spring is here, the clocks are going forward soon, It will be Summer before you know it and we will be through this very stressful time.

Keep smiling. Keep grounded.

Regards,

George

[PaulCB in reply to philologus]

Hi George. I’ve not heard of “Earthing” or “Grounding” but am genuinely fascinated by what you’ve described and explained. My wife seemed to ‘get it’ before I’d even explained it to her. Thank you so much. I’ve had lots of good advice and will try what you’ve said for sure. Regards, Paul

[philologus in reply to PaulCB]

Hello Paul, Women tend to be more intuitive than men and can see the benefits of this.

I ordered 50 packs of earthing mats so that I could get them at a discount and give them to my family and a few close friends. This simply replaces going outside in the cold in your bare feet. Two mats in a pack along with a plug and the leads.

Not sure how we would do this but I have a few packs left if you are interested.

I've put some on ebay for £45 to see what happens. Make me an offer off £40 and I'll accept it. eBay item number:

133371064699

There is a very good book on the subject that was written by the man who discovered all this. The book is "Earthing" by Clinton Ober. The first edition (2010) is often available second hand on ebay or amazon for about £8. The second edition (2014) contains more research results and is in larger print. It is available on Kindle too. Well worth reading as it explains things in layman's terms but gives references and case histories too.

The main thing earthing does is reduce/eliminate inflammation and from what I'm reading about Covid it is inflammation that is the problem. I have no information about whether earthing would make a difference but I'm hoping it will as my wife and I are both 75 and have underlying health issues.

If you have any questions - just ask as I have been researching and using earthing for a while now and have acess to a lot of papers/info on the various issues.

Generally speaking, you need to earth yourself for at least half-an-hour to get the benefits but more is better.

If you get some results please let us all know as a few people have shown interest in the subject and I don't want to seem like a lone voice with a mission.

[dickie007]

Have AF and on Bisoprolol, usually am better sleeping on right side also use eye mask & earplugs, I also try and count my breaths: in and out, generally works for me, if your mind wanders keep trying, good luck.

[PaulCB in reply to dickie007]

Hi Dickie, thank you kindly for getting back to me. As I lay awake at 0545 this morning, I found myself thinking that I must get an eye mask! Thanks again. Paul