AF episodes starting again!

[Ashburton51]

I had my first ablation in 2017 which didn't work so I had my second one in 2018. The consultant said that he had found all the areas that had been missed in the first ablation and that I should be AF free for about 10-15 years. Hurrah I thought! However just under two and a half years later I am now experiencing episodes of AF which I have found very depressing. Has this happened to any of you and if it has what did you do about it? Another ablation or just live with it? I have managed to get a telephone appointment with my GP to ask his advice but I have to wait over two weeks. I look forward to hearing your advice which is always so helpful.

Many thanks

Gloria

[jeanjeannie50]

Hi Gloria, sorry to hear that AF has returned. I went for a third ablation and that was the one that helped me most of all. Now, over 4 years later, I'm in constant AF but at a low rate. I feel well, live a totally normal life and can walk up and down the hills of our beautiful coastline.

I believe that a healthier more natural diet, free from artificial additives has helped me too.

Wishing you well.

Jean x

[Ashburton51 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

Hello Jean thank you so much for your reply and I am so pleased to hear that you are doing so well.I eat very healthily with no additives or alcohol and exercise regularly. Perhaps it is a case of third time lucky!!

Take good care.

Gloria x

[Hidden in reply to Ashburton51]

I eat healthy but the cause of my flutters was a magnesium deficiency which I only found out by taking it and them going away. I never had a diagnosis because when it happened was always at night time so not caught on ECG machine. But I felt when I had flutter for a long period the whole heart would go AWOL and irregular. I had had irregular and odd things happen for many years and within hours of taking the magnesium it stopped ....I stopped taking them after a week as I was travelling and forgot them and got dehydrated and they came back so I haven't stopped since. And I eat a lot of fresh fruit vegetables sprouted seeds ...not so much nuts though where magnesium is higher... So it would be worth trying I'd say. And can't do any harm. I only take the RDA of 400mg and a cheap one and it has helped me beyond the heart issues with brain fog and pains all over starting to go away and more energy. They say the soils have less magnesium now so to get enough in the diet even with healthy fruits and vegetables is difficult because its not in the soil the veggies don't have it in as much amount as they should. I think if I had been diagnosed would they ever have spotted the problem or just treated me with medication and left me with the deficiency for so long it got worse ... No way of knowing really but it should be something everyone is checked for since it caused me so many issues for swant of a simple test. The tests privately costs 400$ which I can't afford. But so long as it keeps working I will keep taking it.

[Ashburton51 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for this. I eat fruit, seeds and vegetables each day but could well be lacking magnesium so it is worth a try particularly if it doesn't affect the taking of Apixaban.

[Hidden in reply to Ashburton51]

I lament sure what axapan is if its a calcium channel blocker then I know magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker so it might add to the effect. I don't think magnesium is one of the ones that can build up and become toxic like some can. But it would be worth starting small and working up in increments rather than take loads. I once took a load of calcium...only about three 200 mg tablets but probably because of my low magesium and they need to be in balance I had a really and reaction...my poop turned white and I had a full body spasm where my whole body bent backwards it scared the crap out of me. And you'd think calcium should be safe. But its very contracting and without the magnesium to balance the relaxing element it really didn't do me any favours. So maybe the oppsitie could happen if you had low calcium and took magnesium it might be a similarly imablancing thing. I know there's a lot of things with low and high electrolytes that are bad. High potassium cramps low magnesium cramps.. Low potassium your body can become so relaxed you get paralysed and even breathing can stop if its super low. But that's rare. Its hard when you don't know what your levels are to know what one you need. And I obviously guessed wrong when I took calcium. So yeah do be careful and take it slow and don't bomb yourself like I did. Lol!

[Ashburton51 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks for this. I will start with a small dose and see how I go

[The_Lord_is_with_Us]

Yes. My first ablation failed after 8 months. Immediately scheduled another. It lasted 10 years, then that failed last August. Immediately scheduled another with one of the best EP's in the world. I had that ablation OCT 22. So far doing well ....

I didn't waste any time scheduling either. I read in the book The AFIB CURE (and from other patients on this forum) that the heart negatively remodels with fibrosis the longer you wait.

My recommendation to you is consult with the absolute best EP you can find. Fly there ... or whatever you have to do. Don't settle for med management or continuing AFIB if you don't have to.

[AbbyTabby in reply to The_Lord_is_with_Us]

Hi your comments are very interesting I have been fobbed off for 18 months with medications, for Parox AFib. - episodes at least nice a week. I have nhs appnt with cardio consultant on Friday and I am asking for an ablation before more damage is done. Please tell me the name of your best EP in the world. Many thanks Abby

[The_Lord_is_with_Us in reply to AbbyTabby]

Dr. Andrea Natale. He heads up a 14 person EP group in Austin, Texas. Patients fly in from all over the world to receive care.

[cuore in reply to AbbyTabby]

In the list of the best EP in the world, certainly add the Bordeaux group where the ablation technique used today started. Specifically Dr. Jais who was with Dr. Haissaguerre when they discovered back in 1994 that the rogue electrical signals originated first in the pulmonary veins.

[Ashburton51 in reply to The_Lord_is_with_Us]

Thank you. Glad to hear that you are doing well. When I speak with my GP I will be asking for a referral back to my consultant who did the second ablation. So fingers crossed I won't have to wait too long for the actual consultation!

[Hidden]

I’m surprised that the EP made a prediction that you would be free of AF for 10-15 years. My understanding of AF-I am not, of course, medically qualified- is that the trajectory of AF is difficult or impossible to predict. At any rate this could be the starting point for a discussion with him: I would ring his secretary and ask him to explain what he thinks has happened.

[Ashburton51 in reply to Hidden]

Yes it did lead me to be hopeful that good health would last longer than just over two years! I will be asking my GP to refer me back to the consultant and I will have a list of questions for him but I have to wait two weeks for the GP telephone consultation!

[secondtry]

You will be lucky if your GP can adequately answer your question. I suggest you prep for consultations with medics by considering how old you are with what is your QOL like, how many episodes are you having and how strongly do you want to avoid pills? Most here seem to favour going for one after another ablations and I like to balance the discussion out with more emphasis on lifestyle changes and pills to postpone ablations always assuming your QOL is good.

[Ashburton51 in reply to secondtry]

I will ask him to refer me back to my consultant. I am only taking Apixaban. Because I have a healthy Mediterranean type diet, no smoking or drinking and using natural remedies and taking vitamins every day, I try to live as natural a life as possible. However having the ablation was the only thing that actually stopped the AF. I was just hoping it would last longer than it did.

[Ashburton51 in reply to secondtry]

My QOL is excellent until I get AF then I am completely wiped out for a couple of days. I have had three episodes since mid February each lasting between 5 - 7 hours and of course always coming on during the night. I really don't take medication unless it is absolutely necessary hence only taking Apixaban which seems to suit my system.

[secondtry in reply to Ashburton51]

Umm, maybe keep a diary to try establish what the triggers might be.

[Nigel2000]

I’m so sorry! The disappointment and discouragement must be awful. Get another ablation right (c.f. Earlier posts). Afib makes me so fatigued and brain foggy (depression like symptoms) that then, at least for me, make that discouragement worse. I hope you feel better soon.

[Ashburton51 in reply to Nigel2000]

Thanks Nigel. Yes it is the disappointment and fatigue that is so awful. My GP is ringing me tomorrow and I shall be asking him to refer me back to my consultant. So fingers crossed.