From the SEC's 2016 Guide to Atrial Fibrillation Management
developed in collaboration with AECCT. In female or male patients with atrial fibrillation who do not have additional risk factors for stroke
Anticoagulant or antiplatelet therapy is not recommended for prevention.
Antiplatelet therapy is not recommended for stroke prophylaxis in patients with atrial fibrillation,
regardless of the level of ris.
Thats really interesting. Ive struggled with the anti coagulant which caused lots of bleeding from all orifices -scary-so not been on them for a year. My risk was only 2.5 and it was the diagnosis of P-Afib that triggered the need for them. So I would be interested to know more. My GP has recommended I stay off them for the time being......She referred me back to cardiology but still waiting an appointment. Frankly I dont think they will know what to do with me!!! 😂
in the mentioned guide it is written that anticoagulation in women is necessary if the score is 3 or higher.
Interesting. Thankyou! Ive been worrying about not being on them & getting a stroke! I shall stop worrying.
I was told the diagnosis by the cardiologist over the phone as I was driving (unexpected call -hands free as call went through car system) ......bit nuts! But then he also put me on a strong dose of beta blockers that messed with my thyroid meds and wouldnt listen to me increasing the dose instead repeatedly until I practically collapsed when a hospital registrar listened and took me off them switching to a calcium channel blocker instead -much better.........so dont have much confidence in the cardiologist!
Whilst I recognise that there are differences of opinion on this ,I beg to differ .
I was a score of 2( AFib,medicated hypertension) and not on Anticoagulants,although I had asked for them to be prescribed ( strong family history of AFib strokes) when I had a TIA.
Promptly put on them and very glad to be !
For those who cannot tolerate either Warfarin or the new Anticoagulants,there is a proceedure called the Watchman ,where a piece of kit blocks off the main potential clot site in the heart .
US and Europe have very different guidelines and there is difference of opinion from AF’ers, GPs, Cardiologists and EPs. I would also point out that those guidelines are from 2016 - they are about to be updated I think? I read somewhere as the view has changed.
There is now general agreement that prophylactic treatment with anti platelets is useless against lowering risk of stroke AF poses.
I really didn’t have want to take anticoagulants when I scored 1-2 but all my doctors were very insistent but after being AF free for over 1 year and being under 65 my EP, very reluctantly agreed and after a few months I had a TIA. I have had no problems taking them since then. I now score 4 so no arguments from me now.
It is always a risk:benefit assessment which should always be made with the latest information and in consultation with your doctors but it is always the choice of the individual.
Some people do have problems taking anticoagulants and again, it’s a question of ‘am I better off with or without?’ There are options for whom anticoagulants are not suitable - such as the Watchman Procedure.
what does TIA mean?.
Trans Ischemic Attack = mini stroke = small clot in the brain. Not something you want to experience. I was lucky as my neighbour, a nurse, recognised the signs immediately and called an ambulance. Once you have had a TIA your risk of a major stroke increases so my score went from 1 > 4 immediately.
A minor detail but I think you mean the European Society of Cardiology (ESC).
Protects the heart
Vitamin K prevents the onset of coronary heart disease and heart failure by intervening in the process of stiffening of the arteries.
Maintain bone health
Bones stay healthy through a diet rich in fresh vegetables and dairy. Vitamin K has the role of fixing calcium and other minerals in the bone structure, it does not allow calcium to form kidney stones or to deposit on blood vessels.
Vitamin K also prevents osteoporosis because it is essential in the synthesis of osteocalcinin (a protein in bone tissue that crystallizes calcium), helping it stay in the bones. Thus, vitamin K improves bone health and reduces the risk of bone fractures, especially in postmenopausal women, who are at increased risk for osteoporosis.
Strengthens the immune system
Vitamin K strengthens the immune system, which means that the body will have an extra chance to fight various types of infections effectively.
Maintain brain health
Vitamin K helps the brain to function optimally and also very importantly, prevents the onset of Alzheimer's disease.
Helps the liver function healthily
Vitamin K helps the intestines function. It also supports the optimal functioning of the liver.
Prevents cancer
Vitamin K3 and vitamin C are recommended in adjuvant treatments in anticancer therapies, but whether this combination, administered for a long time, plays a role in the destruction of the cancer cell is difficult to say, longer studies are needed.
Studies show that vitamin K1 reaches the liver, and when given in large amounts to liver cancer patients helps stabilize and improve liver function. In other words, vitamin K helps maintain optimal liver function. Other research is being done to show that vitamin K2 can stop the genetic processes that lead to tumor development.
There are also many studies on the effects of vitamin K in different types of cancer (liver cancer, leukemia, lung cancer), but there are no data to support these preliminary hypotheses.
It relieves menstrual disorders
Stress, hormonal disorders or other drug treatments can lead to bleeding during menstruation. Vitamin K can prevent and help the clotting process. Vitamin K is also called antihemorrhagic vitamin precisely because it has a role in blood clotting, helps heal wounds and stops bleeding.
Increases longevity
Vitamin K2 prevents the accumulation of calcium in the skin elastin, the effect being that it stops the appearance of wrinkles.
Contributes to the metabolism of calcium in the body
All 3 forms of vitamin K have a contribution to the metabolism of calcium in the body. Unlike vitamin K1, which plays a role in healthy blood clotting, vitamin K2 ensures the transport and healthy fixation of calcium in the bones, preventing it from standing in the blood vessels, where it could promote the installation of various diseases.
Lack of vitamin K
Vitamin K deficiency can be caused by:
a poor or restrictive diet;
Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis;
liver disease that prevents the storage of vitamin K;
use of antibiotics, cholesterol-lowering drugs, mineral oils, aspirin and / or anticoagulant drugs.
Low vitamin K levels are associated with decreased insulin levels and glucose regulation problems, which can lead to decreased bone density in women. Supplementing the diet with this vitamin accelerates the process of bone formation by attracting calcium into the bones. Vitamin K supplements reduce the amount of calcium in the urine and allocate more calcium to strengthen bones.
Signs of vitamin K deficiency
The body needs vitamin K to produce proteins that act during the blood clotting process. If, on the other hand, the body is deficient in vitamin K, the body does not have a sufficient amount of these proteins, and the consequence will be heavy bleeding.
Manifestations of vitamin K deficiency are:
poor blood clotting;
internal and external hemorrhages;
decreased bone density;
the appearance of bruises;
installation of anemia;.
if you are taking anticoagulant that inhibits vitamin k read what this means. If you are taking new anticoagulants NOAC is something else.! I am not willing to take anticoagulant every day thinking that maybe I will have an Afib episode. If it happens I can take it before when I feel that 2 aspirins for adults are coming and I am protected! The choice is everyone's!.
The problem Pearipile is that one serious AF-induced stroke will render all of these excellent advantages irrelevant as the sufferer tries to cope with a life of disability - if he/she survives.
You are absolutely right, it’s your choice to do whatever you like regarding your own health. By all means make people aware of the information which is available and leave it up to them to discuss with their doctors so that they can agree on treatment which is right for them.
However, it’s not right when non medically trained people try to influence others to follow their example.
I don't want to influence anyone Jack, I showed what is not "seen" in the leaflet of anticoagulants antivitamin k. There are no side effects other than bleeding and a few others without much importance. I wrote my opinion for myself, no one needs to follow my example. For many years, aspirin that protects against stroke has been promoted and now we see that it is not true, how so? It's probably too cheap and you have to buy new and expensive ones?!? It makes me think. He did some statistics and there were fewer strokes. after the appearance of NOAC? does anyone know?.
Apologies Pearipile, that was a general point, not meant for you at all.
As others have said, asprin, we are told does nothing for AF but can cause serious stomach problems so here in the UK, medics say it is best avoided and I think the same is now true in the USA. Although I too can be cynical, I really don’t think it’s anything to do with money. I believe there have been very many trials around the world regarding the impact of anticoagulants v stroke v internal bleed. I tend to believe NHS (UK) specialists rightly or wrongly, on the basis that the ones I have heard speak are less likely to be biased due to structure of our health service. I understand that others may have a different view.....
You did mean ESC and their guidelines were updated 2020 and here is the link to the full version:-
escardio.org/Guidelines/Cli...
FYI - Quote:
. Female sex is an age-dependent stroke risk modifier rather than a . risk factor per se.357,358 Observational studies showed that women . with no other risk factors (CHA2DS2-VASc score of 1) have a low . stroke risk, similar to men with a CHA2DS2-VASc score of 0.359 The . simplified CHA2DS2-VA score could guide the initial decision about . OAC in AF patients, but not considering the sex component would . underestimate stroke risk in women with AF.360,361 In the presence . of >1 non-sex stroke risk factor, women with AF consistently have . significantly higher stroke risk than men.353,362
Modern anticoagulants, DOACs, are not VitK antagonists - only Warfarin is. I completely agree with you - I wouldn’t take Warfarin as the risks far outweighed the benefits for me however Asprin will not protect you from risk of stroke from AF and carries a much higher risk for gastric bleeds.
It’s absolutely your choice, I offer you only the updated information to make that choice.
understand you, I would do the same for you. The sufferer is much more cautious! With these guidelines and the studies that contradict the old ones, I don't really trust them, they are also of interest to the big drug manufacturers. I was amazed to hear that statins are prescribed and those with good tests ... so "preventive". God forgive me , where did it end up !!! Thanks for the answer, good health!.
Thank you for posting, it helps all to have an open two sided debate.
Anticoagulation Therapy 
Anticoagulation again or not?
What should I do if I forget my anticoagulant?
Are you struggling to be prescribed an anticoagulant to help manage your AF-related stroke risk?
To anticoagulate or not to anticoagulate..
